Anadrol vs. Dbol

[Gavin Kane]

The Great Oral Debate: Anadrol vs. Dianabol
By Gavin Kane

For many years, a great debate has raged over which oral is superior for mass gains, and two of them have stood the test of time; dianabol and anadrol. The debate has continued, arguing which of the two is superior, yet no conclusive evidence has proven one better than the other. People respond to each one differently, some swearing by dbol and some swearing by anadrol. Before we declare one the winner, I am going to go over a bit of history and chemical structure on both products.

Anadrol (oxymetholone) was first made available in the 1960’s by Syntex. It is very effective at increasing red blood cell production and was promising for treating severe cases of anemia. With the advent of newer and more advanced drugs such as Erythropoietin, which have less androgenic side effects, Anadrol was discontinued. New studies in AIDS/HIV patients revealed Anadrol was particularly effective at reducing wasting symptoms so it was re-released in the late 1990’s.

Oxymetholone is a derivative of dihydrotestosterone, which in theory means it should not convert to estrogen. Since it does not aromatize but still causes gynecomastia in some users, there are other pathways by which it converts. After looking at studies on AIDS patients, I found that it may convert by actively activating the estrogen receptor, so this is a product that would need an anti-estrogen such as Nolvadex.

Dianabol (methandrostenolone) was first made in 1956 by John Zieglar of Ciba fame. Dianabol has been one of the most popular oral steroids of all time, exploding in popularity in the 1970’s with bodybuilders and football players and expanding into all avenues of athletics during the 1980’s. It somewhat waned during the 1990’s with the steroid control act, but was hot again in the early 2000’s with reproduction in mass quantities by Mexican labs and underground labs.
Methandrostenolone is a derivative of testosterone and hence will convert to estrogen. Gyno will be a concern for sure, in almost all users, whereas only less than 25% have problems with Anadrol. Again water retention will be a problem, usually due to the estrogenic properties.

Both products will have similar androgenic side effects, which include; acne, water retention, oily skin, male pattern baldness, and increased body hair growth. Both drugs are c17 alpha alkylated, therefore liver protection will be necessary, especially when combining the two.

So we come to the premise of this article, Anadrol vs. Dianabol. Why, the great debate over which product to take? They work on different pathways, have similar side effects you will have to combat, and both are liver toxic. So why is there a debate over which is better and which one should you take? Well, as I stated earlier, different people have different responses to each product. Many people, including myself, find high doses of Anadrol to be too much to handle in trade of the results you get. With this product, I have an extreme loss of appetite, massive water retention, and overall aches and pains and headaches.

On the other hand, when I take Dianabol, I get a general sense of well-being, good but not great size gains, and the ability to keep eating. It sounds like I should keep taking Dianabol and drop the Anadrol, right? Wrong. I get massive male pattern baldness from Dianabol, which I do not experience from Anadrol. I have an increase in blood pressure levels at doses that are high enough to match my gains from Anadrol, and I have to shorten my cycles because of the massive dosages I take to get good gains. So in all, I get some side effects from each that I would like to avoid, while still retaining the great benefits that I can only get from each product.

Anadrol is well known for its ability to cause massive size and strength increases, and as we all know, a stronger muscle has to become a bigger muscle with enough calories to feed it. Dianabol gives me large, quality muscle gains without as much water retention as Anadrol. So what is the compromise? Do I take one during one cycle and then the other product during my next cycle?

The answer is no to both. There is no need to short change yourself gains in either department when you can have your cake and eat it too. I am not alone in my assessments of both products. Most guys have similar issues of massive water retention, headaches and loss of appetite with Anadrol, and MPB and fewer gains with Dianabol comparatively. So, the best thing we can do is decrease our dosages of both products to cut down on side-effects and take them at the same time to increase the benefits.

My recommendation is to take both products in lower dosages but for longer periods of time. Dianabol has been found to work much better for quality gains when taken in lower dosages but for longer periods of time. High doses have severe side effects in some users, a loss of all gains with cessation of the product because of the short cycle (4-6 weeks) and most of the aforementioned side-effects.

Your dosages will be cycle history dependent but when I was at the peak of my career, I was taking cycles of 200mg Dianabol for 6 weeks per cycle, or 250-300mg Anadrol per 6 week cycle. In later cycles when I decided to combine the two products together, I was able to drop my Dianabol use to 50mg per day, and my Anadrol use to 100mg per day and because of the synergistic effect of the two products combined, the effect was similar to high doses of each but with none of the sides. There is something very synergistic when taking these two products together with just a simple cycle of testosterone and deca-durabolin.

I would run my Anadrol cycles for 8 weeks at that dose and my Dianabol cycles for 10 weeks at that low dose with no liver toxic effects as proven by my quarterly blood tests. I did not have to take liver protectants, but I recommend them for most users. I no longer had to watch my blood pressure, my water retention was minimal compared to earlier cycles, and I was able to continue eating massive amounts of food because I did not experience appetite loss from a massive dose of Anadrol.

I highly recommend on your next bulking cycle you try the following: A base cycle of test and deca, add in the Anadrol and Dianabol mix, and some Nolvadex. You will be able to control your water retention, liver toxicity, and other side effects by controlling your dosages. Your doses will vary from mine, but just adjust accordingly and run them for longer periods of time. You will be amazed at the simplicity of this cycle and yet the synergy is un-describable. Your gains will be far better than you have ever had when taking each product alone, your side effects will be less than if you were to take either product in higher doses, thanks to the different biochemical pathways. Everyone already knows that test and anadrol, and deca and dbol are very synergistic. Now combine all four in a cycle and watch yourself just blow up.

[healthfreak79]

Great post ap thanks for posting that, im going to have to give that a try

Thanks again

[hank]

I'm definatly going to give this a try!

[KillerStack]

Although I like stacking both because they compliment each other well, I would never recommend anyone else doing so (I know I'm taking a risk). Stacking two orals could have unexpected effects on liver toxicity, even if dosage was lower of both. It's unknown really because AFAIK there have been no studies stacking these drugs together. For example Dianabol is toxic and converts to toxic estrogens while Anadrol is known to lower liver glutathione levels. Doing both could be worse than either alone at the same dosage, as far as liver toxicity.

[HELLA SWOLE]

Originally Posted by Almost Pro

Your doses will vary from mine, but just adjust accordingly and run them for longer periods of time. .

I think this needs to be made clear to the newbies out there. The doses you spoke of were definately not for beginners (And yes, I know you were not claiming them to be, just wanted to point it out for those who may not know better) That is a great article though and much appreciated. Very interesting....

[Macdaddy]

Those were some large dosages you were taking back in the day. What kind and quantity of liver protectants where you taking with those dosages? I heard Arnold was a big fan of Dbol too. I read somewhere that he was taking very large dosages and sometimes Dbol only cycles.

As for the liver toxicity of combining the 2, they are both c17 so they should affect the liver the same. Maybe other sides would be different, but not the liver toxicity.

Good post bro.

[cal]

AP,

Sent you a PM.

Great article BTW

[b-boy]

AP you have been a great asset to this board bro, and like your other post, this one is much appreciated!

[Big Bapper]

Thanks for the info. Respect.

[Big Ian]

Another excellent article AP! Always wondered what it would be like stacking the 2 products together but had always heard there was no point. Definitely going to give it a go soon now though

[khalnayak]

Ive read alot on combining this 2 drugs and it sounds like a good idea but wont running drol for 8 weeks combined with dbol for 10 weeks be very taxing to the liver?Even at a low dose?Just a newbie question...

[STORM SHADOW]

I really really like that idea alot and will do that now on my upcoming cycle but would like to go a step further from that Anthony Roberts report... winstrol at only 20mg to lower SHGB and free up more test. I read the pros for it and the replies that said it doesn't help at all... but it does sound like a good idea.

THE STORM

The Winstrol connection was brought to us by our friend xcelbeyond written by Anthony Roberts.

Interesting Article on Winstrol by Anthony Roberts

THE STORM

[Gavin Kane]

Originally Posted by STORM SHADOW

I really really like that idea alot and will do that now on my upcoming cycle but would like to go a step further from that Anthony Roberts report... winstrol at only 20mg to lower SHGB and free up more test. I read the pros for it and the replies that said it doesn't help at all... but it does sound like a good idea.

THE STORM

The Winstrol connection was brought to us by our friend xcelbeyond written by Anthony Roberts.

Interesting Article on Winstrol by Anthony Roberts

THE STORM

You are very right about the winstrol. I have two clients of mine that added it to the stack and the results were pretty staggering. I was hoping to try it on more people to see if it was just a coincidence. 2 people is hardly convincing but it is a start. There might be something to this.

[Gavin Kane]

Originally Posted by Macdaddy

Those were some large dosages you were taking back in the day. What kind and quantity of liver protectants where you taking with those dosages? I heard Arnold was a big fan of Dbol too. I read somewhere that he was taking very large dosages and sometimes Dbol only cycles.

As for the liver toxicity of combining the 2, they are both c17 so they should affect the liver the same. Maybe other sides would be different, but not the liver toxicity.

Good post bro.

I must admit that I am one of the very lucky few who have never taken any protectants, I have never taken an anit-e, or anything at all to combat side effects. The worst thing that has happened to me is MPB, and some high blood pressure that I can control with natural diuretics.

I happen to process high amounts of products quite well, as do most high level competitors. I do not recommend anyone on this board try the above stack at any dose without an anti-e and some liver protectants. There are too many good products on the market so that it is not worth risking your health.

[Gavin Kane]

Originally Posted by HELLA SWOLE

I think this needs to be made clear to the newbies out there. The doses you spoke of were definately not for beginners (And yes, I know you were not claiming them to be, just wanted to point it out for those who may not know better) That is a great article though and much appreciated. Very interesting....

That is a very good point and I should have emphasized it more. Thank you for the highlight. I usually tend to make recommendations on the side of caution. Please adjust your doses down to a normal level, mine were for example sake only and not to be followed. Most guys would do very well on 20-30mg dbol and 50mg anadrol per day for the cycle.

[Gavin Kane]

Let me also add and clarify that nothing I write is geared towards newbies. I don't really help them out much, other than recommending they eat more and take no more than 500mg test a week for cycles. Newbies don't need much of anything except to eat and train.

My articles are written and geared toward advanced users, especially guys who have reached the upper ranks of competitive bodybuilding and need something to get the edge or to the next level. I have a huge client list that reads like a who's who of top amateur's and pro's.

I post on this board because there are not too many newbies here. This is PRO muscle so I feel free to cut loose a bit and give some hardcore recommendations for advanced users.

[STORM SHADOW]

Originally Posted by Almost Pro

Let me also add and clarify that nothing I write is geared towards newbies. I don't really help them out much, other than recommending they eat more and take no more than 500mg test a week for cycles. Newbies don't need much of anything except to eat and train.

My articles are written and geared toward advanced users, especially guys who have reached the upper ranks of competitive bodybuilding and need something to get the edge or to the next level. I have a huge client list that reads like a who's who of top amateur's and pro's.

I post on this board because there are not too many newbies here. This is PRO muscle so I feel free to cut loose a bit and give some hardcore recommendations for advanced users.

I hear ya bro... I don't help out newbies much either... anything I have to say they wouldn't want to hear. And when they come out with these freaky cycles they are going to do I just shudder.

If they are reletively new to lifting and young, I don't recommend anything at all as they have no clue the tendon pain when they hit their 30's from the sudden strength increase.. and we know! we know! when you're new and that strength kicks in it's hard to control that ego and they want to lift the heaviest weight possible even with shitty form....bouncing the heavy weight off their chest and shit... it's just not worth it. If they could just keep the weight down, 12 reps, spend 3 seconds in the eccentric movement, they can avoid the harassing pain of tendonitis 10 years later. Your first couple cycles is not a time to show everybody in the gym how powerful you are. Like the threads on experienced lifters that get results, they all say "leave your ego at the door". Putting your body under constant pressure such as in bench, performed properly makes one use much lower weight.

If the body is ready from lifting and first cycle and they are young, I recommend NOTHING but Deca 400mgs per week and anavar.

THE STORM

[JETHRO TULL]

THANKS FOR POSTING THAT INFO....I HAVE NEVER USED THOSE TWO ORALS TOGETHER....BUT, IT SOUNDS GOOD.

[Blade_HST]

Well, no surprise you suffered significant side-effects at those dosages. There seems to be a saturation threshold around 50mg/day for Dbol and 100mg/day for Anadrol, so in a combination I would expect those to be the maximum recommendations. Perhaps due to synergism one could get optimal results from something like 25-30mg/day of Dbol + 25-50mg/day of Anadrol - advanced users base cycles on injectables anyway, so to reduce liver stress I think that combo should be sufficient.

[Gavin Kane]

Originally Posted by Blade_HST

Well, no surprise you suffered significant side-effects at those dosages. There seems to be a saturation threshold around 50mg/day for Dbol and 100mg/day for Anadrol, so in a combination I would expect those to be the maximum recommendations. Perhaps due to synergism one could get optimal results from something like 25-30mg/day of Dbol + 25-50mg/day of Anadrol - advanced users base cycles on injectables anyway, so to reduce liver stress I think that combo should be sufficient.

I don't think you can state there is a threshold for those products. Everyone processes things very differently, hence someone can blow up off 50mg drol a day and other users get absolutely nothing at that dose. Anadrol has a very low receptor affinity so large doses are sometimes needed to get the results you are trying to get.

There really are not studies or proof of the upper limits of any aas, nor will they ever be since they are so taboo right now. Studies always use the lowest possible dose to minimize side effects. And if you re-read my post, the worst sides I had were elevated blood pressure from water retention which is easily fixed and MPB, which I cannot fix.

I have never had the normal sides that most guys get, I have never had gyno and I have never taken an anit-e in my life. I don't get elevated liver values, no matter how much I take. I am not invinceable but I know what it took for me to get large. That is why I stated that dosages must be adjusted accordingly.

I also take note that you state advanced users base cycles on injectables, well that is primarily true at the doses necessary for advanced users but they also use massive amounts of orals, staggering amounts in fact. We used to compare cycles backstage during pre-judging at the Nationals and USA's and I am far from alone in taking massive doses of drol and dbol, in fact it is more common than not.