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Net Results + Side Effects From Gear

  • Thread starter Deleted member 106824
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Deleted member 106824

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Interested to hear other member's experiences thoughts on how long they have been using gear, what net results they have gotten from it (e.g. pounds of muscle gained or strength gained, etc.) and the side effects. If you think it's been worth it.

I remember talking to a friend of mine a year or two ago who competes. His coach uses gear and apparently felt he could have competed around 150 naturally but now being on gear + GH he competes at 165. He's around 5'6" I believe. I remember thinking it was ridiculous that with all he was using (up to 2g gear and I think moderate amounts of GH) he only put on 15lb. Then my friend explained how if you think about it if he put on 30+lb he would be an IFBB pro so it's really not that ridiculous and most with truly average genetics would be lucky to net 15lb of stage weight with just gear (i.e. not massive doses of slin + GH and anything else). In thinking about it that does make sense.

I've been using gear for a little over 2 years now. First year or so was somewhat foolish, mostly figuring things out. Now I have about 15lb of muscle added at the same body fat compared to when I started. Now while that has made a big difference sometimes I think about it...if I stayed completely natural I probably could have put on 5-7lb of muscle in the last 2 years. So essentially the gear has put me 8-10lb ahead of where I would have been. Originally going on seemed like the right choice because my goals are likely not attainable naturally, but when I think about what has gone into it: 3 years of countless hours researching studies, full books on gear, 1000's of posts, a few thousand dollars, 15-20 blood tests, many extra doctor's visits to get scripts, a lot of stress, etc.

Now that itself is a lot BUT I have goals and am willing to work for them. The effort is fine with me. When it comes to the side effects however, I've started to feel much worse about their potential. Maybe it's going into a medical profession that has thrown it more in my face but now it seems anything that is less than optimal freaks me out. Outwardly I have been very lucky....No hair loss, no acne, no lasting gyno, BP is 105/65 right now even mid-cycle, RHR ~45-50bpm. Even bloodwork tends to be pretty good except on orals or tren, both of which I will not use again. Sticking to safer injectables. But I wonder what is going on that is not being seen. Atherosclerosis for example is not going to be picked up on bloodwork. I just had a liver ultrasound showing no masses or anything but they did note it was 17.7cm which, after looking up normal sizes, is pretty large so that itself worries me.

All in all, just curious what you experienced guys have netted from gear, if you think it's been worth it (i.e. would you make the same choice) and if you have noticeable long term side effects. Not that you'd know about all the potential damage done anyway but still curious. I am really starting to reconsider things given how I've been feeling about it, I've gone from being excited to be on gear to just feeling "off" like it's not right and I'm only hurting myself. Having said that, bodybuilding is a passion of mine even though I don't compete, and consigning myself to basically make no more true/significant progress if I come off gear is a very tough decision to make.

Interested in everyone's input.
 
Overall I am satisfied.

If I were to make changes considering what I know now: Would take at least 6 months off every year and stop all together after 5 years.

I noticed after 5 years sides started coming on faster and more pronounced on blood work and general feeling. Hard to tell exactly since I didn't do measuring right from the start but I packed on 30lbs of muscle easy in those 5 years. After that it was pretty much maintaining. Weight would go up only if I bumped the dose.

Now one year off, I dropped 10lbs but definately look better than my peers who didn't juice and it makes me happy it was not in vain.
 
I think its a little hard to say...

I have been up to 298 natty, I was fat but in shape for football and could run a lot distance and speed wasn't too bad. I could squat upwards of 400lbs and bench somewhere close to that.

on gear I have been just as heavy, I have squatted closer to 500lbs for low reps dont really remember other numbers, I no longer lift heavy so its been along time. I looked much different at that weight on and off of gear.

i have also been down to about 170 as an adult obviously no gear.

if i were to stop my trt I would drop an easy 20lbs, I don't know how much more, i do know I can be much leaner using gear then without and hold a lot more muscle. I do require trt so take that into account as well. which is also why I feel i just keep shrinking when I come off...

I take a lot of things to work on the health aspects of all this and feel it is much more important then gear.

2 years on gear is very little and not what it takes to make a real change in your body, especially if you don't have the genetics. I have been on for more then ten years pretty much straight, the only times I have been off entirely is when life was a total mess or I was locked up, basically one in the same...

I am pretty sure I will be on test for the rest of my life and feel I can do that in a fairly healthy way all the other stuff I dropped several years back. I do feel that running a g+ all the time is a bad idea. I could not justify to myself using that to weigh less then 240-250. when I take things into consideration right now I cant honestly justify being more then 250ish,todo it and still be in nice shape I would need more gear and the combination of 250lbs and more gear just seems like bad news.
 
Overall I am satisfied.

If I were to make changes considering what I know now: Would take at least 6 months off every year and stop all together after 5 years.

I noticed after 5 years sides started coming on faster and more pronounced on blood work and general feeling. Hard to tell exactly since I didn't do measuring right from the start but I packed on 30lbs of muscle easy in those 5 years. After that it was pretty much maintaining. Weight would go up only if I bumped the dose.

Now one year off, I dropped 10lbs but definately look better than my peers who didn't juice and it makes me happy it was not in vain.

Hey TT,

This is almost exactly what I hoped to do. Essentially blast until I begin my medical career at which point I'd really rather not deal with it, and hopefully net 20lb or so beyond what I would have otherwise gotten. A few questions if you don't mind:

1. How old were you when you started?

2. What were your doses like?

3. How much did you weigh to start and how much now?

4. Are you completely off now or on TRT?

5. How do you feel about any permanent side effects you may have gotten whether external (e.g. hair loss) or internal (if cholesterol was altered or more advanced testing was done).

Thanks a lot

I think its a little hard to say...

I have been up to 298 natty, I was fat but in shape for football and could run a lot distance and speed wasn't too bad. I could squat upwards of 400lbs and bench somewhere close to that.

on gear I have been just as heavy, I have squatted closer to 500lbs for low reps dont really remember other numbers, I no longer lift heavy so its been along time. I looked much different at that weight on and off of gear.

i have also been down to about 170 as an adult obviously no gear.

if i were to stop my trt I would drop an easy 20lbs, I don't know how much more, i do know I can be much leaner using gear then without and hold a lot more muscle. I do require trt so take that into account as well. which is also why I feel i just keep shrinking when I come off...

I take a lot of things to work on the health aspects of all this and feel it is much more important then gear.

2 years on gear is very little and not what it takes to make a real change in your body, especially if you don't have the genetics. I have been on for more then ten years pretty much straight, the only times I have been off entirely is when life was a total mess or I was locked up, basically one in the same...

I am pretty sure I will be on test for the rest of my life and feel I can do that in a fairly healthy way all the other stuff I dropped several years back. I do feel that running a g+ all the time is a bad idea. I could not justify to myself using that to weigh less then 240-250. when I take things into consideration right now I cant honestly justify being more then 250ish,todo it and still be in nice shape I would need more gear and the combination of 250lbs and more gear just seems like bad news.

Thanks for the response. So you are still blasting gear now then, how much do you currently weigh? Do you feel you could maintain the amount of muscle you have if you stuck to true TRT (100-150mg/week)?

As for my genetics....going by what I see in the real world they are average. I'm about the same size as most people I see in the gym lifting as long as me, and generally stronger, but going by internet standards I apparently have horrible genetics lol so who knows.

When I began gear and for most of my time using I felt excited about it, it made my goals attainable with enough hard work. But now I am just so concerned about the health risks it makes me feel bad about it all the time, but on the other hand my main goals in life have been progressing in school (getting into the schools I wanted to get the career I wanted) and bodybuilding, with bodybuilding of course being the hobby/fun choice so to go off gear now, not having achieved what I wanted, doesn't feel great either.

I came up with the plan that I would blast and cruise until I graduate with my degree and begin working (I am 23 by the way so continuing until I'm 26) and then staying on TRT at that point to hopefully maintain my gains but I'm worried about the damage I could do in another 3 years even though everything else I do is very healthy. Cardio, fish oil, curcumin, regular bloodwork, healthy diet, etc.

Hence this thread, basically looking for opinions and everyone's own experiences with this, if they think it's been worth it, how much they've truly gained, and if they've noted long term side effects. Unfortunately there is very little we can do to truly know about long term side effects when we're 60+. I'm so young and recover well now it's hard to think it could still mess me up that many years later (especially when studies on smokers show that those who stopped 15+ years ago are at no higher risk of illness than people who never smoked, and smoking is far worse for you than AAS) but you never know.
 
ill be 35 in November.

I started aas when I was around your age, I forget exactly but 22-24 I may have done my first shot right around my 23rd bday.

right now im 245.

I did my last blast a few years ago, like 3-4. it was my highest ever and did it just for a goof as I had stuff collecting dust.

a few years back I had been just doing a little test since that big blast, I tried to add in some tren and got wicked gyno, tried add some wini, got a hemorrhoid... figured fuck it, my body just isn't happy with this stuff and stuck with test. my test is more like internet trt and not true 100mg/wk trt, two weeks ago I was doing 350mgs te, which I had bumped up from 300 but only for 3-4 weeks. I typically run 100-300mgs.

the thing is I have taken this time to really focus on my training. I am supprised at what I have been able to accomplish. using what I feel is pretty safe doses of test peptides here and there and a ton of funky antioxidants I can get results that are on par with 1000-1500mg of aas but feel much better.

last October I hit what I felt was a personal best of 230 at single digit bf about 7%. I could in no way do that without what I was taking. I have worked pretty hard this year since feburary to make good progress. after October I was partying a lot and was out of the gym for a while and went down to about 200lbs, still on trt btw.

my whole philosophy has been to work at doing more with less, less gear better look, add 40lbs on a shitty diet and no supps nothing other then 300mg of t not even cool intra workout nutrition... lol!

I just looked back at your post and see you mention curcumin. this has been amazing for me. that resveratrol, glutathione, SOD, b12-combo are what I live on besides test, all inject, those my little bit of test and peptides are amazing and you don't need much more in myopinion if you have built a real base.

recently I have been getting the itch to run a decent cycle, just because I have made such great progress that im curious to see what it would do. I do have a hard time justifying it, it would be unhealthy and it would only be due to drugs so it would go away after, rational thinking says it doesn't make much sense... doesn't mean it isn't cool though! lol!
 
Sounds like your weight fluctuates a ton!

I guess in the end it's hard for you to know just how much you netted from gear since you still take amounts beyond TRT levels along with peptides and you were already heavier and fatter as a natural so it's hard to break down exactly what you got in the end.

I know a lot of people talk about how you can still make great gains on lower doses, peptides, etc...but for me personally once I'm done I'd like to be truly done. Fine with TRT but no more stressing about gear/peptide quality, sources, research, blood work, health effects (most of the studies showing negative side effects are in fact on low-moderate doses so who even knows how much high doses are affecting things), etc..

Just hoping that 1.) I can make enough gains before coming off gear that it was worth it (i.e. not just 10lb like my friends coach), 2.) I can maintain it on a true TRT of 125mg/week or so and 3.) There aren't long term side effects.

If I could do it like TT seems to have done, netting +20lb of muscle beyond what I could have achieved naturally, and then maintain it with no apparently long term negative side effects that would be fantastic.
 
I been drinking so bare with me lol
you are seeing the TRUTH imo. you are seeing that sacrificing health and longevity for muscle and leanness might not be the best idea for you. perfect. most people should realize this. it doesn't take a lot of drugs and etc to have a great looking physique.
you can look better than 90% of people just being lean. if you have ANY size to you normal people will think you are a pro athlete lol
does juice get you past normal set point forever? I don't know. but it does while you are on it or even if on a lil bit of it. cmpare old dude not on hrt to old dude on hrt, VERY diff
-JS
 
Sounds like your weight fluctuates a ton!

I guess in the end it's hard for you to know just how much you netted from gear since you still take amounts beyond TRT levels along with peptides and you were already heavier and fatter as a natural so it's hard to break down exactly what you got in the end.

I know a lot of people talk about how you can still make great gains on lower doses, peptides, etc...but for me personally once I'm done I'd like to be truly done. Fine with TRT but no more stressing about gear/peptide quality, sources, research, blood work, health effects (most of the studies showing negative side effects are in fact on low-moderate doses so who even knows how much high doses are affecting things), etc..

Just hoping that 1.) I can make enough gains before coming off gear that it was worth it (i.e. not just 10lb like my friends coach), 2.) I can maintain it on a true TRT of 125mg/week or so and 3.) There aren't long term side effects.

If I could do it like TT seems to have done, netting +20lb of muscle beyond what I could have achieved naturally, and then maintain it with no apparently long term negative side effects that would be fantastic.

yeah in my case very hard to translate into what you are looking for.

I would not plan on holding muscle if you ar enot on some kind of drug though, at the very least trt or maybe slightly higher.

I hold WAY more muscle on a little t vs no t, but again I NEED t, so hard to say. I guess if I monitored my test/free test and brought it into the 500-600 range we would have an idea, but I don't see me being able to monitor like that any time in the next 5-10 years... lol
 
yeah in my case very hard to translate into what you are looking for.

I would not plan on holding muscle if you ar enot on some kind of drug though, at the very least trt or maybe slightly higher.

I hold WAY more muscle on a little t vs no t, but again I NEED t, so hard to say. I guess if I monitored my test/free test and brought it into the 500-600 range we would have an idea, but I don't see me being able to monitor like that any time in the next 5-10 years... lol

While I'm not sure the exact mechanism, it does seem like a lot of people online say that much more muscle can be maintained after blasting if one stayed on HRT. However, a lot of times it seems like the people saying this are referring to HRT like you do it (e.g. maybe 2-300mg Test/week + 1-3iu GH per day or something like that). In my case I am planning on going to strictly TRT.

Now I'd have to go back on just TRT to test this but I will say that after my first cycle ever (4 week oral cycle) I came off for 10-12 weeks and the last 4-6 weeks off were spent dieting and I was literally back at square 1, lost everything. Whereas this summer I came off for 12 weeks on just 100mg TRT and while I did lose a little bit I kept most of my size/strength while dieting down a bit. So again I'd have to see how another 12 weeks of just 100mg TRT worked out to confirm that but it did seem like things were retained better....if that is the case then my guess is it's because at least you're keeping things high-normal and sustained rather than allowing a roller coaster with Test, Estrogen, Cortisol, etc. post cycle.

If I have to stay on say 125mg TRT for life to maintain maybe 15-20lb above what no TRT would do then I would certainly do it as I feel TRT is pretty healthy, but if anyone can give input on that (how much a true TRT vs completely off matters) I'd be interested.

When I do eventually stop blasting and cruising I will stay on TRT for at least a year before changing anything to see what's the case for my body.

I been drinking so bare with me lol
you are seeing the TRUTH imo. you are seeing that sacrificing health and longevity for muscle and leanness might not be the best idea for you. perfect. most people should realize this. it doesn't take a lot of drugs and etc to have a great looking physique.
you can look better than 90% of people just being lean. if you have ANY size to you normal people will think you are a pro athlete lol
does juice get you past normal set point forever? I don't know. but it does while you are on it or even if on a lil bit of it. cmpare old dude not on hrt to old dude on hrt, VERY diff
-JS

Yea I mean I have made progress but certainly not what most thing of with "steroid gains". If I went from where I was to freaky status (not freaky big but freaky look overall) then I could justify it but in thinking about how much I've put into using gear it's kind of crazy. As mentioned there is all the work of course (endless hours researching, blood work, getting the gear so the money spent, etc) but more importantly the potential health risks.

What is your experience with this? Do you stay on TRT now or what? Also when you say there is a big difference between TRT and no TRT do you mean a true TRT and do you think one doing this could maintain most of their gains from 3-5 years of gear?

Also I agree that "you can look better than 90% of people just being lean." but I think we all eventually loose sight of what is normal and want the extreme. Also I'm not too big and my metabolism is pretty shitty so staying lean is rough, eventually wanted to be big enough where even when 12-15% I was still really standing out (by our standards, not general public standards where 170 with abs stands out lol).
 
In terms of the side effects aspect, interested to hear people's thoughts on long term sides they feel they may have or one may get from the gear use. I am talking specifically about AAS in the 300-2000mg range but no GH, slin, diuretics, etc...

I know about most of the potential issues, many I know about in detail, but it seems there is very little known about the long term aspect. For instance is my HDL averaging 30-40 for the 5 years I'm on gear from 21-26 compared to if say 45-60 if I never did gear going to make a difference when I'm 60+? I really don't know. O've never used nandrolone before but I have a bunch of NPP on hand....does the fact that nandrolone's artery hardening effect potency is 11x more so than testosterone mean that if I take that NPP now I will suffer the consequences when I'm 60+? Again I don't know if that's the case or if it would just reverse itself by then with 30+ years of not using it.

Those studies on smoking and other risk factors interest me because they often show how risk is back down to "normal" after X amount of time not doing it and if that's the case with something as bad as smoking I would hope it's similar with gear but I really don't know.

Personally I always knew I would not want to be blasting and cruising when I'm older as my priorities would change and the body would take a lot more damage whereas it seems to recover quickly when young but the long term aspects interest me.
 
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Here's my 2 cents...

Always try to be lean.
Don't worry about the scale, work around the mirror.
Work with small dosages and a solid diet/training until your muscles look full and mature, chase a physique/male model type of body first.
After you achieve that, consider higher doses, maybe mid-high test with some deca and HGH. That will make you look like a bodybuilder without being extra heavy.

It will take a few years and you'll look really good, albeit not a giant. By then, you'll have enough experience to dabble with higher doses of AAS, HGH and maybe some insulin to turn yourself into a freak, considering you have the genetics.
 
Good thread. I have definitely changed my physique in the ~3 years I've been dabbling. Haven't used real high doses(at least not to me). Never ventured over 2g, I think 1.7ish is my most. Anyhow I'm hoping to have my ideal physique in another 2-3 years so I can back off. Just don't wanna be one of those guys relying on gear when I'm 50. At that point in life I plan to be doing family things and being a father, not worrying about muscles.
 
For me, like a lot of others, probably wouldn't have though twice to check BP, Lipids, and so forth if it weren't for this lifestyle. But to do this thing responsibly, I think I'm healthier than most people I know. I'm not trying to justify my use, but it is what it is.
 
Main thing steroids do for average gym rat is allow you to hold size and be very lean. Most won't eat and train enough to be huge and I personally believe being very large wether fat or muscle is probably as hard on the body as steroids.

I have been in the 7-8% range natural and you lose alot of muscle.

Is it worth it overall, probably not, but i could say the same thing about 75% of what i do. Waste of time, unhealthy, dangerous, pointless ect. I do like it when the wife calls me a beast.
 
I think also when people first start gear they expect these major changes. if you have normal or less then normal genetics it is going to take years of eating training and doing things right in order to get the look you really want.

after 10 years it doesn't take that much to keep in good shape. even when im not in the gym and other life issue take more priority people I still get all the dumb questions and weird comments.
 
Looking back over 3 years of gear usage, I am very pleased with what I've obtained. I started out around the same weight I am now (23 years old, 235 @ 6'), but was around 20% bf and am now around 10% bf.

10% of 235 lbs is around 23lbs so losing 23lbs of fat and gaining 23 lbs of mass has changed my physique completely. I get friends who haven't seen me in a few years going holy shit what happened like I turned into a freak. It's a good feeling. I plan to eventually step on a national state as a big SHW (250ish) so I just keep moving forward and stay optimistic.

Ever since day 1, I made sure health and using gear the right way was top priority. I made sure to always have the necessary ancillaries on hand and do quarterly bloodwork with annual physicals. I also drink A LOT of water (1.5gal+) daily to help with kidney health and keep my blood pressure in check. I do cardio year round as well.

Only thing I wish with gear usage is I had started sooner. I use a pretty hefty dose most cycles (1.5g to 3.5g) depending on compounds. EQ is a bit of a skewed compound because without a gram, I don't get much out of it, but with a gram, it's noticeable. Started out with test + dbol and then 8 weeks later jumped on the tren train and never looked back. I blast/cruise year round with my cruise of 100tren/test and or 200test.

The only thing I am concerned with long term is kidney health because of what's happened to a lot of bbers historically like flex or nasser. Things like insulin and hgh in responsible amounts don't worry me much. I don't drink or do rec drugs so liver isn't a huge concern with me. Hair, skin, acne, etc are all great and I haven't aged much at all.

Strength wise, gear has been a game changer too.

Before gear:
Squat 365 x 1
Deadlift 495 x 3
Bench 225 x 3

After gear:
Squat 495 x 8
Deadlift 585 x 5
Bench 405 x 1

I made sure I had a decent strength base before I began gear, but it is been awesome breaking PRs over the years.
 
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How old were you when you started? 22

2. What were your doses like? In the beginning they were low 600mg total but that's were I made gains and felt good. Then it was around 1-1.5g a week. And cruse year round.

3. How much did you weigh to start and how much now? Can't say for sure. Never really weighed myself in the beginning. Now 205lbs

4. Are you completely off now or on TRT? Yes. September 17th of last year was my last shot

5. How do you feel about any permanent side effects you may have gotten whether external (e.g. hair loss) or internal (if cholesterol was altered or more advanced testing was done). Very little hair loss. Just thinner in one place but that could be naturally. I had mild heart hypertrophy but thanks to God it reversed itself. I had another echo done in June and now everything is within normal range. I just had bloods done this morning (Test) so I will share results in a day or 2 when they are ready. Other than that all good. Feel great, look good. I played my dices well and it's time to pull back. I decided I will not mess with hormones any more. Don't want to test my luck.
 
Here's my 2 cents...

Always try to be lean.
Don't worry about the scale, work around the mirror.
Work with small dosages and a solid diet/training until your muscles look full and mature, chase a physique/male model type of body first.
After you achieve that, consider higher doses, maybe mid-high test with some deca and HGH. That will make you look like a bodybuilder without being extra heavy.

It will take a few years and you'll look really good, albeit not a giant. By then, you'll have enough experience to dabble with higher doses of AAS, HGH and maybe some insulin to turn yourself into a freak, considering you have the genetics.

Thanks for the input but I have no interest in ever using GH, insulin or looking like a freak. I find the physique guys to look pretty ideal actually. Maybe get hate for this but the Jeff Seid type looks great in my opinion.

This also doesn't touch on the point of the topic lol which was net side effects and it being worth it given net results.

I will say that I think I need to stay leaner (8-12% year round instead of 12-18% year round) to look more impressive on the whole, but whenever I cut down and feel smaller the gear thing seems even less worth it because I get "skinny" and think damn I'm on gear and this is it? At least when I'm fatter I look bigger lol just won't take my shirt off...

Good thread. I have definitely changed my physique in the ~3 years I've been dabbling. Haven't used real high doses(at least not to me). Never ventured over 2g, I think 1.7ish is my most. Anyhow I'm hoping to have my ideal physique in another 2-3 years so I can back off. Just don't wanna be one of those guys relying on gear when I'm 50. At that point in life I plan to be doing family things and being a father, not worrying about muscles.

Exactly my thoughts, except I think it's funny we think that 1.7g isn't that high lol. I have been up to 1.5g myself but still I would say that's getting up there even though by IFBB pro standards it's not.

Fully agree with the ideal situation though, getting where we want in another 2-3 years and then backing off. Are you planning on going on TRT or what? Like you said, regardless of where I am results wise I have no intention on blasting when I'm older...not in line with my life priorities, but it would be nice to net a solid 15-20lb above what I would have otherwise been able to attain naturally, if I can maintain that with TRT after ~5 years on gear.

For me, like a lot of others, probably wouldn't have though twice to check BP, Lipids, and so forth if it weren't for this lifestyle. But to do this thing responsibly, I think I'm healthier than most people I know. I'm not trying to justify my use, but it is what it is.

I have always been health conscious but I agree I have been even more so since starting gear. Having said that, I do not think it cancels out. Before gear my BP was typically 90-110/60-70, low HR, already took health supplements, ate healthy food and did cardio. While I stay may be healthier than most (and I'm not even sure if that's true as I know many people who don't lead the healthiest lifestyles who have not tanked their HDL, increased liver enzymes, etc like we have albeit temporarily) it doesn't mean that we're not still worse off than we would have been.

Cerb I know you said you too did not have any crazy dramatic response to gear. What was your weight and bf% when you started gear and what would it be now at the same bf%? Do you think you could maintain where you're at with just true TRT (~125mg)?

I see myself compared to other guys I go to school with, for instance, and while I am known as the meathead of the class (in a good way lol) I'm really not that much bigger than some of the guys who are natural and just have slightly better genetics or have put in a similar amount of time lifting. I hope the damage done long term is not too significant considering the results, while noticeable, are not overly dramatic.

I think also when people first start gear they expect these major changes. if you have normal or less then normal genetics it is going to take years of eating training and doing things right in order to get the look you really want.

after 10 years it doesn't take that much to keep in good shape. even when im not in the gym and other life issue take more priority people I still get all the dumb questions and weird comments.

Definitely true. I did expect though to get the "steroid newb gains" of 20+lb the first year but honestly my first year or so was almost wasted. Last year I netted about 11-12lb which is great but already I'm finding gains much harder to come by this year...although that's probably in part due to dropping orals and tren and just sticking to healthier injectables.

I think I could probably put on another 15lb or so of muscle in the next 2-3 years using gear in a similar way, which would be nice but again I just feel bad about the long term health issues. I really don't know if there is even anecdotal evidence for this...most of the guys we see dying who were on gear were on a lot of it for many years along with GH, Slin, Diuretics or recreational drugs and alcohol. Can't really think of examples where guys just did 3-6 years of gear and then maintained after that. I guess those who do maybe don't talk about it as much?

Honestly the dumbest thing I did was all the superdrol clones in the first year or so, I don't regret gear use up to this point but do regret those specific parts of the cycles. Seeing what it did to my blood work was ridiculous and honestly if I just blasted and cruised from the start with only injectables I'd probably be further along and wouldn't have had as bad of blood work.

Looking back over 3 years of gear usage, I am very pleased with what I've obtained. I started out around the same weight I am now (23 years old, 235 @ 6'), but was around 20% bf and am now around 10% bf.

10% of 235 lbs is around 23lbs so losing 23lbs of fat and gaining 23 lbs of mass has changed my physique completely. I get friends who haven't seen me in a few years going holy shit what happened like I turned into a freak. It's a good feeling. I plan to eventually step on a national state as a big SHW (250ish) so I just keep moving forward and stay optimistic.

Ever since day 1, I made sure health and using gear the right way was top priority. I made sure to always have the necessary ancillaries on hand and do quarterly bloodwork with annual physicals. I also drink A LOT of water (1.5gal+) daily to help with kidney health and keep my blood pressure in check. I do cardio year round as well.

Only thing I wish with gear usage is I had started sooner. I use a pretty hefty dose most cycles (1.5g to 3.5g) depending on compounds. EQ is a bit of a skewed compound because without a gram, I don't get much out of it, but with a gram, it's noticeable. Started out with test + dbol and then 8 weeks later jumped on the tren train and never looked back. I blast/cruise year round with my cruise of 100tren/test and or 200test.

The only thing I am concerned with long term is kidney health because of what's happened to a lot of bbers historically like flex or nasser. Things like insulin and hgh in responsible amounts don't worry me much. I don't drink or do rec drugs so liver isn't a huge concern with me. Hair, skin, acne, etc are all great and I haven't aged much at all.

Strength wise, gear has been a game changer too.

Before gear:
Squat 365 x 1
Deadlift 495 x 3
Bench 225 x 3

After gear:
Squat 495 x 8
Deadlift 585 x 5
Bench 405 x 1

I made sure I had a decent strength base before I began gear, but it is been awesome breaking PRs over the years.

Sounds like you had a pretty good response to gear. That's pretty crazy how low your strength was at 235lb before starting gear and then how much it blew up after being on.

You're blood work is OK on cycle or do you only get it done when you are cruising?

Your experience with EQ seems to be what a lot of people notice. I have only used EQ a few times but can't say much about it because 1.) The sponsor I was dealing with before sucked so this is the first time I'm using EQ from a quality source and 2.) I'm using it with Test and never did a full Test-Only cycle before so it's hard to compare relatively. Currently 5.5 weeks in, nothing special to note though (750mg Test E + 750mg EQ).
 
How old were you when you started? 22

2. What were your doses like? In the beginning they were low 600mg total but that's were I made gains and felt good. Then it was around 1-1.5g a week. And cruse year round.

3. How much did you weigh to start and how much now? Can't say for sure. Never really weighed myself in the beginning. Now 205lbs

4. Are you completely off now or on TRT? Yes. September 17th of last year was my last shot

5. How do you feel about any permanent side effects you may have gotten whether external (e.g. hair loss) or internal (if cholesterol was altered or more advanced testing was done). Very little hair loss. Just thinner in one place but that could be naturally. I had mild heart hypertrophy but thanks to God it reversed itself. I had another echo done in June and now everything is within normal range. I just had bloods done this morning (Test) so I will share results in a day or 2 when they are ready. Other than that all good. Feel great, look good. I played my dices well and it's time to pull back. I decided I will not mess with hormones any more. Don't want to test my luck.

2.) Again very similar to me. I started with doses around 500-750 but now around 1000-1500 depending on what I'm doing.

3.) Same weight as well lol, how tall are you?

4.) Wow +20lb of muscle compared to where you started even though you're not even on TRT is impressive. Although you did say you didn't weigh yourself before so I guess you're estimating? I honestly figured I'd have to stay on TRT to maintain the gains but it is interesting you have been able to maintain so much. Do you feel you were at a natural peak before starting and those 20lb are above what you could have otherwise achieved, or that the gear just got you to where you could have gotten (or a little beyond) faster than if you stayed natural? Not sure how lean you stay but I feel like if I went off completely then once I ever dieted down I would lose everything.

5.) Yes please let us know about the bloodwork when you get it, would be very interested to hear about it


Edit: Oh and did you have an echo done pre-gear to know you had heart hypertrophy or was it just out of range so you assumed it was from the gear? Was that echo done while on a cycle and what made you decide to get it done in the first place?

Sorry for all the questions but you seem to have done almost exactly what I've done or plan to do so any answers you can provide are appreciated.
 
Yeah, I think with gear I reached my genetic potential faster. I think naturally I can hold on to muscle. My father was a really big guy and he never even lifted. He was shorter than me though, I am 5'11.

I had echo done prior to gear when I was 20. I was rushed to emergency when I had methamphetamine overdose. They checked my heart with echo the next day and said I had no problems. Now when I was on TRT I went to Europe and used the oportunity to do a full diagnostic since medicine is free. That's when they picked up hypertrophy.
 

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