Long cycle for next year! Opinion please...

[PsyT]

Hey! This is a long cycle...the goal is strength and size both! I think I have nailed down my diet correctly and its time to put on the size I want next year. I am gonna take a few months off natural (after a short 40 day prop cycle ends soon) and then start sometime early Feb.

Here it is! I think it is pretty straightforward/solid...right? First time using long esters though...I have only used prop before two times now (with good success! But I would not want to do ED or EOD pinning for 4 months!!!).

Week 1-14: EQ 400mg/week (2 shots Mon/Thurs)
week 1-16: Test E 600mg/week (2 shots Mon/Thurs)
week 1-22: Aromasin 6.25-12.5mg ED (adjust as needed)
week 3-18: HCG 250ug 2x/week
Week 18-22: Clomid 25mg ED (first 3 days at 50mg)
week 18-22: IGF 25ug ED

[PsyT]

any comments! I pretty sure I got this nailed down...I know what I need to do! But I wonder is 4-5week PCT sufficient? Should I have clomid on hand to extend PCT???

[mopchopper]

cant see anything wrong....i just want to know the reasoning behind the longer cycle vs. the shorter ones you have run...definitely not saying anything negative ... i am just wondering

[PsyT]

I just got 5 months set aside where I will be very stationary in one place and not able to travel...so I have a bigger chunk of time on my hands so I figure I might as well be on cycle for the majority of that.

Lift eat sleep (study) lift eat sleep....repeat repeat for 4 months.

after my cycle and my PCT ends I am blessed enough that I will be in indonesia for 100 days surfing (hopefully they have a barbell with plates somewhere over there I can find at least a couple times a week!).

[mopchopper]

i understand...its a matter of convenience, not just that you wanna stretch one out...from what i read and hear, there is a point of diminishing gains...as far as for length of time "on", after, for emample, 12 or 16 weeks your gains will have peaked and the rate of gains may diminsh little by little after that point unless you increase the dosage...all in theory, i guess... all of this may not even be true...like i said, it is what i have read and heard...that was the reason i asked...but i see that you probably cant fit 2 short cycles with adeqaute time off and a PCT fro each in those 5 months...makes perfect sense now...should be a good cycle

[PsyT]

would you suggest switching esters or something? I've heard that can stimulate the rate of gains once you start slowing down (dunno why though???).

I was also thinking about frontloading with prop and backloading with prop perhaps if I could get funds. Maybe 3 weeks front and 3 weeks back?

[pesty4077]

I usally like 12 weeks, 16 isn't too bad. The only problem I have is you doing the same amount throughout.

[PsyT]

pesty! thanks! What would you suggest? (ramping my dose up????).

I'm new to the longer cycles...need all the opinions/theories I can possibly get.

[pesty4077]

Originally Posted by PsyT

pesty! thanks! What would you suggest? (ramping my dose up????).

I'm new to the longer cycles...need all the opinions/theories I can possibly get.

Pyramid it up and then down, or add an oral for the first 6 weeks and at the end lower the doses for the last 4 weeks. Another suggestion is the first 8 weeks do your two compounds at then switch over to two different ones, the last 8 weeks.

[PsyT]

I don't mess with orals after using tbol...that stuff had too many side effects...my urine smelled bad....i felt like shit on and off...i got a weird cough....

I would rather just stick with test and possibly EQ (i'm hoping that is a good boost and not much side effects).

what do you think about front/backloading with prop?

[mopchopper]

Originally Posted by PsyT

I don't mess with orals after using tbol...that stuff had too many side effects...my urine smelled bad....i felt like shit on and off...i got a weird cough....

I would rather just stick with test and possibly EQ (i'm hoping that is a good boost and not much side effects).

what do you think about front/backloading with prop?

definitely run prop first 3 weeks and possibly into the 4th....not sure about the backload...i like the idea, its just the timing....what day would you start it...the day of your last injection or wait a few days for it to start diminishing then inject the prop and run it till the day before you start PCT?

[mopchopper]

i was looking at the length of time your gonna run HCG, i read a protocol on it that says to stop use 2 weeks before you AAS is clear from your system...meaning you would stop HCG on week 16...also take a 2 week break half way through because of downregulating lydig receptors, which is also a concern in general for long term use of HCG...but this is what i read... not personal beliefs...Elite Fitness protocols

[PsyT]

Originally Posted by pesty4077

Pyramid it up and then down, or add an oral for the first 6 weeks and at the end lower the doses for the last 4 weeks. Another suggestion is the first 8 weeks do your two compounds at then switch over to two different ones, the last 8 weeks.

hey I just caught that last suggestion...that is interesting...would something like this work?:

1-16 test e 600mg/week
1-8 Deca 400mg/week
9-14 EQ 400mg/week

Possibly also frontloading with TEST PROP (75mg ED for first 3 weeks would work good while waiting for the long esters to stabilize with peak levels?)

Only reason I never have wanted to run DECA was because the recovery process is slow with it I hear...but if I had 8 weeks more of test to take in and then even 2 more weeks on top of that waiting for ester to clear (that would be 2.5 months between the last DECA shot and PCT...so I should be 'safe' as far as having a good recovery goes I would think). In your opinion would the gains that I would make by switching drugs from deca to EQ halfway through be worth the risk of messing with a progestin based AAS?

I'm really excited about this cycle. My diet and training are locking down tighter and tigher as the years roll by I am in this hobby...I feel blessed to be able to do this with this time on my hands and access to this AAS. A true blessing!

[PsyT]

Originally Posted by mopchopper

i was looking at the length of time your gonna run HCG, i read a protocol on it that says to stop use 2 weeks before you AAS is clear from your system...meaning you would stop HCG on week 16...also take a 2 week break half way through because of downregulating lydig receptors, which is also a concern in general for long term use of HCG...but this is what i read... not personal beliefs...Elite Fitness protocols

really!? I have been told by people I trust to run HCG right up through waiting for the ester to clear and the day before PCT day 1. You don't run the HCG during PCT but since it clears very fast (2-3 days) it is OK to run right up to the day before. Otherwise you will suffer atrophy during the 2 weeks off (even the few days off between last prop shot) if you don't continue the HCG. HCG also gives me quite a strength boost (natty test boost) so its nice waiting for the ester to clear imo...

Any other thoughts on MopChopper's point???

[mopchopper]

If you are doing the on-cycle hCG protocol it is important to discontinue hCG 2 weeks prior to AAS clearance. Therefore, when you officially start PCT you will be clean of all AAS's and will be 14 days from your last hCG shot. This allows your testes to become re-sensitized to the body's LH (leutinizing hormone) signal from the brain, making for a quick recovery of natural testosterone production as soon as the steroids and hCG clear the system... because it allows you to start recovering as soon as PCT begins...this is what i read, specifically, and why you are supposed to stop earlier than day before PCT

[juicy j]

I disagree with this. The way I was taught to use hcg and I have been very successful with this method is....take hcg all the way through the cycle and also when esters are clearing...you take your last hcg shot the day the ester clears and then you start pct 3 days after your last hcg shot. Not because it takes hcg 3 days to clear but because you get a spike 24 and 72 hours after you take the hcg.

In addition, the last 4 shots, I use 1500iu and then jump into pct. When I do this, my transition into pct is seamless with no crash. My 2 cents.

Originally Posted by mopchopper

If you are doing the on-cycle hCG protocol it is important to discontinue hCG 2 weeks prior to AAS clearance. Therefore, when you officially start PCT you will be clean of all AAS's and will be 14 days from your last hCG shot. This allows your testes to become re-sensitized to the body's LH (leutinizing hormone) signal from the brain, making for a quick recovery of natural testosterone production as soon as the steroids and hCG clear the system... because it allows you to start recovering as soon as PCT begins...this is what i read, specifically, and why you are supposed to stop earlier than day before PCT

I do not ever use 19 nors...there is too much bulls#!t associated with their use. More ancilliaries, harsh shutdown...also, every time I read a post or talk to a friend of mine that has used tren or deca I hear stuff like, "my nipples are milking 3 months off cycle" or "my test levels are 125 a month after pct wtf?". When I see that, I can almost guarantee either tren or deca were invloved. Also, i do not see a need in changing compounds. The first cycle you posted looked great with the exception of the hcg....I would start it after week 1. Why? Because even if testicles have not atrophied, LH is most likely already shut down. Otherwise I love that cycle, mine will be very similar in Jan. Btw, I would not run the cycle that long...I read a study that showed cycles lasting 12+ weeks in duration made it harder for the pituitary to recover. Plus gains slow at week 8 anyway hence the reason people change compounds but the change in compounds would not give you much additional muscle and the risks outweigh the benefits imo!

Originally Posted by PsyT

hey I just caught that last suggestion...that is interesting...would something like this work?:

1-16 test e 600mg/week
1-8 Deca 400mg/week
9-14 EQ 400mg/week

Possibly also frontloading with TEST PROP (75mg ED for first 3 weeks would work good while waiting for the long esters to stabilize with peak levels?)

Only reason I never have wanted to run DECA was because the recovery process is slow with it I hear...but if I had 8 weeks more of test to take in and then even 2 more weeks on top of that waiting for ester to clear (that would be 2.5 months between the last DECA shot and PCT...so I should be 'safe' as far as having a good recovery goes I would think). In your opinion would the gains that I would make by switching drugs from deca to EQ halfway through be worth the risk of messing with a progestin based AAS?

I'm really excited about this cycle. My diet and training are locking down tighter and tigher as the years roll by I am in this hobby...I feel blessed to be able to do this with this time on my hands and access to this AAS. A true blessing!

[blazer97]

i agree with juicy j on the 19 nor's, too many sides to worry about and shutdown is harsh. I don't think you'd benefit too much from 8 weeks of deca. I like your original cycle better, why not take the EQ up to 600 along with the test for 14 - 16 weeks?

[PsyT]

Juicy J, I agree with you about HCG completely. That is how I ran it my first cycle and it worked great. I'll do that and I'll also start HCG earlier (you are right I think with your reasoning).

With the cycle length...do you think 10 weeks on EQ is sufficient? If I run test E for 12 weeks I would want to stop EQ at week 10, correct?

I also agree that I dont want to do the 19nor drugs like DECA or TREN. I have horrible reactions to prami so it would literally be a nightmare for me to have to run that stuff every day to combat sides. My life would be hell. Better to stay clear of that stuff I think since I have no idea how sensitive I will be to the sides of DECA.

[mopchopper]

i personally have never used HCG...i was about to use it on my next cycle and was doing a bit of research and that is what i came across...i definitely dont support it as if it was my own idea through trial and error...just bring it to light and seeing if anyone follows this...it seems like the way you are planning is common and may be the better way...thanks for the input guys

[juicy j]

I cannot say that everyone is wrong because some people take a while to feel their compounds but personally, I feel EQ around the same time as my test and I run it 10 weeks quite frequently with great results. Yeah, stopping 2 weeks before is good timing!

Originally Posted by PsyT

Juicy J, I agree with you about HCG completely. That is how I ran it my first cycle and it worked great. I'll do that and I'll also start HCG earlier (you are right I think with your reasoning).

With the cycle length...do you think 10 weeks on EQ is sufficient? If I run test E for 12 weeks I would want to stop EQ at week 10, correct?

I also agree that I dont want to do the 19nor drugs like DECA or TREN. I have horrible reactions to prami so it would literally be a nightmare for me to have to run that stuff every day to combat sides. My life would be hell. Better to stay clear of that stuff I think since I have no idea how sensitive I will be to the sides of DECA.