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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 03:46 AM
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^ i usually do carb backloading (eating carbs only post workout) and shit, this is hard on tren. i often get nauseous or feel sick in the morning until after my workout when i can eat my carbs. i feel like tren lowers your blood sugar pretty badly, especially if you dont eat enough carbs...
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 04:00 AM
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^ i usually do carb backloading (eating carbs only post workout) and shit, this is hard on tren. i often get nauseous or feel sick in the morning until after my workout when i can eat my carbs. i feel like tren lowers your blood sugar pretty badly, especially if you dont eat enough carbs...
Do you not find it hard training without replenishing glycogen? or you eat enough carbs post there's still plenty there next session I suppose. I liked the idea of backloading but after quite a bit of research cpwo made more sense to me. Bet results are good regardless as both ways give you a lot of insulin downtime and improve insulin sensitivity anyway

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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sammy555 View Post
I'm only eating carbs eod pre workout, very character building on 750 tren. Fat drops of though

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Just wondering why carbs pre and no post? I used to train fasted for the past few months and loved it, now have just whole eggs or salmon prew and love it even more - got better pumps, more strenght with the same endurance as no prew meal. Tried chicken with rice and whey with oameal prew few times and my workouts sucked - tired, sleepy, less focus and desire to train...but I don't use tren now

and protein/fats on non or still fasting ? are you using tren eod on training days too or ed? I was wondering if tren susp could fix it - use tren susp on workout-carb days then no tren susp and no carbs other day?
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 04:57 AM
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Just wondering why carbs pre and no post? I used to train fasted for the past few months and loved it, now have just whole eggs or salmon prew and love it even more - got better pumps, more strenght with the same endurance as no prew meal. Tried chicken with rice and whey with oameal prew few times and my workouts sucked - tired, sleepy, less focus and desire to train...but I don't use tren now

and protein/fats on non or still fasting ? are you using tren eod on training days too or ed? I was wondering if tren susp could fix it - use tren susp on workout-carb days then no tren susp and no carbs other day?
Well the theory is when you replenish glycogen after training you return insulin sensitivity to base line, undoing some of the benefits of the workout, by avoiding carbs you hold your body in a preferred state of using ffa for energy as it views glucose as previous until glycogen replenished. I've never dropped bf so quick in my life and believe it or not the most shocking thing is the improved workout recovery. I doubt I'll eat carbs post workout again except when I'm blasting the gh and slin. I do ya bare minimum of 18 hours post workout carbless upto about 40 if I'm not training next day. I was doing it more to regain insulin sensitivity but the rapid fat loss is a bonus. I agree with eating carbs pre workout making for a worse workout which is why I wait at least 4 hours post carb up, I like 6 better. As I'm about to leave for gym I have a scoop of whey and tin of tuna just to keep some aminos in system during training.

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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sammy555 View Post
Well the theory is when you replenish glycogen after training you return insulin sensitivity to base line, undoing some of the benefits of the workout, by avoiding carbs you hold your body in a preferred state of using ffa for energy as it views glucose as previous until glycogen replenished. I've never dropped bf so quick in my life and believe it or not the most shocking thing is the improved workout recovery. I doubt I'll eat carbs post workout again except when I'm blasting the gh and slin. I do ya bare minimum of 18 hours post workout carbless upto about 40 if I'm not training next day. I was doing it more to regain insulin sensitivity but the rapid fat loss is a bonus. I agree with eating carbs pre workout making for a worse workout which is why I wait at least 4 hours post carb up, I like 6 better. As I'm about to leave for gym I have a scoop of whey and tin of tuna just to keep some aminos in system during training.

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This makes a lot of sense, but you're also fasting for 18+ hours so it's very hard to say bf drops so quickly because of no carbs postw or because of fasting (or combination of both )
How much carbs do you eat prew? and you have only 2 meals/day? (prew and whey/tuna post?)
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by andro View Post
Is bulking with tren not the best due to how many cals you burn while on tren??
Tren is the reason for majority of my size, so yes it is perfect for bulking unless you have the appetite of a 12 year old girl
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:31 AM
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This makes a lot of sense, but you're also fasting for 18+ hours so it's very hard to say bf drops so quickly because of no carbs postw or because of fasting (or combination of both )
How much carbs do you eat prew? and you have only 2 meals/day? (prew and whey/tuna post?)
I'm off the fasting mate, have you ever tried fasting on 750 tren? Haha, I've got more chance of being an astronaut. This is why I've had to adapt and use a new approach, I'd love to add some fasting in but with the tren i feel like I'll die, cave in after about 14 hours and over eat due to a hunger that's almost indescribable. I will not give up my tren ill work around it haha

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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sammy555 View Post
I'm off the fasting mate, have you ever tried fasting on 750 tren? Haha, I've got more chance of being an astronaut. This is why I've had to adapt and use a new approach, I'd love to add some fasting in but with the tren i feel like I'll die, cave in after about 14 hours and over eat due to a hunger that's almost indescribable. I will not give up my tren ill work around it haha

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jesus, im jealous of the people claiming tren destroys their appetite, if im eating by hunger im literally around 6000 kcals every day on tren. when i was on 350mg a week i still gained a good amount of BF, but i was hardcore bulking. strength gains were INSANE. im excited to see how much BF ill gain on 700mg tren and ~6000 kcals a day. just gotta find an AAS that destroys my appetite to make cutting easier lol.

ive been trying to cut on tren for like the last 6 weeks but i NEVER managed to go longer than 3 or 4 days on low calories/low carbs. when i managed to do so (lets say i was on 2500 kcals for 4 days in a row) then i would just feel like im dying from hunger which usually ended up in me destroying something between 5.000 and 10.000 kcals in a single day (one evening i ate a whole apple pie, half a gallon of ice cream and 4 pizzas within 8 hours, i just COULD NOT STOP...) im usually someone who has a good amount of willpower and i definitely can suffer for quite some time, but on tren its IMPOSSIBLE.
funny thing is i still lost a few lbs of fat during those 6 weeks, even though i was heavily overeating at least once a week.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:09 AM
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I'm off the fasting mate, have you ever tried fasting on 750 tren? Haha, I've got more chance of being an astronaut. This is why I've had to adapt and use a new approach, I'd love to add some fasting in but with the tren i feel like I'll die, cave in after about 14 hours and over eat due to a hunger that's almost indescribable. I will not give up my tren ill work around it haha

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Actually tried fasting on 525mg tren quit after a week or so. Tren by itself changes my personality and combined it with low blood sugar, hunger etc - it was a nighmare for me and people arround me lol BUT I've had most insane wrokouts while fasted and on tren don't know why it happens but the shittier a feel the better workouts I have on those times getting to the gym and destroying the weights is the only thing I really wanna do (besides eating lol)

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Originally Posted by Jizzmo View Post
jesus, im jealous of the people claiming tren destroys their appetite, if im eating by hunger im literally around 6000 kcals every day on tren. when i was on 350mg a week i still gained a good amount of BF, but i was hardcore bulking. strength gains were INSANE. im excited to see how much BF ill gain on 700mg tren and ~6000 kcals a day. just gotta find an AAS that destroys my appetite to make cutting easier lol.

ive been trying to cut on tren for like the last 6 weeks but i NEVER managed to go longer than 3 or 4 days on low calories/low carbs. when i managed to do so (lets say i was on 2500 kcals for 4 days in a row) then i would just feel like im dying from hunger which usually ended up in me destroying something between 5.000 and 10.000 kcals in a single day (one evening i ate a whole apple pie, half a gallon of ice cream and 4 pizzas within 8 hours, i just COULD NOT STOP...) im usually someone who has a good amount of willpower and i definitely can suffer for quite some time, but on tren its IMPOSSIBLE.
funny thing is i still lost a few lbs of fat during those 6 weeks, even though i was heavily overeating at least once a week.
I've had very very similiar experiences while on tren, this is why I hate it when trying to lean out and don't know how it's possible to eat only limited amount of chicken, fish or eggs with no carbs all day long exept pre during and post workout like John Meadows, Mark Dugdale and other guys is doing.
I've tried Keto with no tren in the past and that was one of the easiest diets ever - no hunger at all, no mood swings etc tried Keto with tren and had totally different experiences and with 100-150 carbs pwo craved carbs insanely

Last edited by tr; 12-01-2012 at 08:11 AM.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jizzmo View Post
jesus, im jealous of the people claiming tren destroys their appetite, if im eating by hunger im literally around 6000 kcals every day on tren. when i was on 350mg a week i still gained a good amount of BF, but i was hardcore bulking. strength gains were INSANE. im excited to see how much BF ill gain on 700mg tren and ~6000 kcals a day. just gotta find an AAS that destroys my appetite to make cutting easier lol.

ive been trying to cut on tren for like the last 6 weeks but i NEVER managed to go longer than 3 or 4 days on low calories/low carbs. when i managed to do so (lets say i was on 2500 kcals for 4 days in a row) then i would just feel like im dying from hunger which usually ended up in me destroying something between 5.000 and 10.000 kcals in a single day (one evening i ate a whole apple pie, half a gallon of ice cream and 4 pizzas within 8 hours, i just COULD NOT STOP...) im usually someone who has a good amount of willpower and i definitely can suffer for quite some time, but on tren its IMPOSSIBLE.
funny thing is i still lost a few lbs of fat during those 6 weeks, even though i was heavily overeating at least once a week.

I'm on 150 home brew tren A, ED... no appetite... cutting works out pretty well.. forcefeed myself the needed cals..and bam
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:49 AM
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Tren loves the carbs LOL! I learned that (for my body) I could go low carbs and diet that way but when taking enough tren I really didnt need to and actually looked better on a clean(ish) higher carb diet
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SqWark! View Post
Tren loves the carbs LOL! I learned that (for my body) I could go low carbs and diet that way but when taking enough tren I really didnt need to and actually looked better on a clean(ish) higher carb diet
I look better on tren+higher carb diet as well. Tren really has a profound effect on the CNS and cortisol system. I think lowering cortisol activity is the way in which it lowers blood sugar. cortisol is part of the way in which the body keeps blood sugar stable by releasing FFA and stored glycogen. The CNS activity influenced by tren will over time lower serotonin levels, and it will keep NE levels up (hence insomnia and being edgy). I also believe that elevated NE and low cortisol is what lowers the appetite. All of these effects, in addition to suppressed T3 is how it's such a good anti-catabolic re-comping drug.

Carbs increase serotonin and keep blood sugar up which help offset the NE (irritability). Tren + no carbs is never fun, and quite frankly doesn't make much sense unless using T3 with it and something to buffer the irritability. Tren + low carbs is a great way to drop T3 real low. If you don't believe me do thyroid labs. It may not happen in everyone but I've used a lot of tren and monitored my labs carefully to really try and understand the drug (or at least its affect on me).
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:19 AM
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For you guys that hare trying to go lo-carb and having a hard time with tren, why not try carb cycling? As in 1 day go high carb, next medium, last almost none, then repeat. Try and keep all of your carbs clean however.......I am running 300mg test e and 300mg tren e eating a 2500 kcal diet, which is about 300-400 under maintenance for me, I am using the gear as an anti catabolic while trying to cut body fat, combined with 250mg dnp every day, lets just say the results are excellent. I am keeping my diet around 250g protein, 150g clean carbs, and 80g good fats. I also am learning that I cut weight the easiest with limiting my dairy intake.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:27 AM
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For you guys that hare trying to go lo-carb and having a hard time with tren, why not try carb cycling? As in 1 day go high carb, next medium, last almost none, then repeat. Try and keep all of your carbs clean however.......I am running 300mg test e and 300mg tren e eating a 2500 kcal diet, which is about 300-400 under maintenance for me, I am using the gear as an anti catabolic while trying to cut body fat, combined with 250mg dnp every day, lets just say the results are excellent. I am keeping my diet around 250g protein, 150g clean carbs, and 80g good fats. I also am learning that I cut weight the easiest with limiting my dairy intake.
Dairy is very insulinogenic so that makes sense.

I have found that I can diet MUCH more easily on higher doses of PRIMO and MASTERON than I can on Tren. Metabolism stays higher without T3 supplementation. I also stay more "full" looking (rounder, full muscles) whereas on tren it's more of a dense hard look only.

I personally think that tren acts mostly as an anti-catabolic, whereas test, nandrolones, primobolan act as more anabolic drugs. everyone gets caught up on how strong tren is supposed to be "on paper" (5x more anabolic than testosterone, etc). I have just found that it doesn't translate like that in practice. Just my .02c
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:30 AM
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For you guys that hare trying to go lo-carb and having a hard time with tren, why not try carb cycling? As in 1 day go high carb, next medium, last almost none, then repeat. Try and keep all of your carbs clean however.......I am running 300mg test e and 300mg tren e eating a 2500 kcal diet, which is about 300-400 under maintenance for me, I am using the gear as an anti catabolic while trying to cut body fat, combined with 250mg dnp every day, lets just say the results are excellent. I am keeping my diet around 250g protein, 150g clean carbs, and 80g good fats. I also am learning that I cut weight the easiest with limiting my dairy intake.
I'm going to reduce my carbless post workout to 18 hours max and just keep carbs below 200 and calories below 3000. I'll go a longer carbless period with a little more slin use on cruise. I have just eaten about 7000 calories in less than an hour and about 4000 were sugar /carbs. Cooking 2 chicken breast now to protein it up then get strict tomorrow onwards. I'm fucking disgusted with my self feel dirty. Just starting to feel full now. Hopefully the tren will limit the damage and after training tomorrow I will only way 6 chicken breasts whole day, recarb next day on 200 carbs then repeat. Gotta be real lean by Christmas. Come on guys tell me what a fuck wit I am for doing this to myself, 7000 calories of shit like a fucking adict I was going to do 5 days keto this week no fucking chance now

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Last edited by sammy555; 12-01-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:48 AM
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I know my body will crave carbs like no other if I haven't had any in a few days, I am not talking a 7000 cal craving, but a few pieces of cheese cake, or 4 reese's cups cravings. I was able to drop the most amount of fat running a carb cycle diet, day one was minimal carb 2500 cals, day two was moderate carb and 2800 cals, and day 3 was high carb and around 3200 cals. Keep in mind I am only 200 lbs with about 172lbs lbm, so my total needs are about 2600 manitenance. I know with that diet I lost a lot of fat and got pretty damn ripped up, I was running 350 mg test p and 350 mp tren a per week while on this, probably the best cycle of my life. Since it was my first cycle ever, I am not surprised.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:06 AM
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I'm going to reduce my carbless post workout to 18 hours max and just keep carbs below 200 and calories below 3000. I'll go a longer carbless period with a little more slin use on cruise. I have just eaten about 7000 calories in less than an hour and about 4000 were sugar /carbs. Cooking 2 chicken breast now to protein it up then get strict tomorrow onwards. I'm fucking disgusted with my self feel dirty. Just starting to feel full now. Hopefully the tren will limit the damage and after training tomorrow I will only way 6 chicken breasts whole day, recarb next day on 200 carbs then repeat. Gotta be real lean by Christmas. Come on guys tell me what a fuck wit I am for doing this to myself, 7000 calories of shit like a fucking adict I was going to do 5 days keto this week no fucking chance now

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I think fasting/feeding cycles are important to understand. Also, stretching them out to enhance each of them for desired results (fasting for fat loss, feeding for anabolism) is great, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Also, I've noticed a great tendency to binge if I stretch things out too far. I have found that 3-4 meals per day instead of the 5-8 meal crap people do is the best way to optimize the fasting/feeding cycles. training and proper application of GH/slin can really enhance this. AAS = always a plus.

I.e. 4-6 hours between meals. Peps taken during the fasting period 2-3 hours post meal and then some extra slin taken to cover and enhance the feeding period. Exo GH at night with carbless last meal of the day or at least 3 hours post a meal with carbs at night and BOOM TRUE body recomp. easy to gain muscle/lose fat like this. The added slin isn't necessary but should enhance the feeding period.

Only thing left to really further augment the recomp is ~50mcg LR3 taken SubQ in the AM.

I've never changed my body faster than using the above methods/thought processes.

BTW -REALLY SORRY to digress this thread but at least I didn't start the digression . Anyway, since things were going in this direction, I thought I'd add to them. Anyway...back to TREN
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:10 AM
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Great thread, I always thought to run high test, low tren. I will try the opposite in a few weeks. I'm looking forward to it.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:17 PM
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I think fasting/feeding cycles are important to understand. Also, stretching them out to enhance each of them for desired results (fasting for fat loss, feeding for anabolism) is great, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Also, I've noticed a great tendency to binge if I stretch things out too far. I have found that 3-4 meals per day instead of the 5-8 meal crap people do is the best way to optimize the fasting/feeding cycles. training and proper application of GH/slin can really enhance this. AAS = always a plus.

I.e. 4-6 hours between meals. Peps taken during the fasting period 2-3 hours post meal and then some extra slin taken to cover and enhance the feeding period. Exo GH at night with carbless last meal of the day or at least 3 hours post a meal with carbs at night and BOOM TRUE body recomp. easy to gain muscle/lose fat like this. The added slin isn't necessary but should enhance the feeding period.

Only thing left to really further augment the recomp is ~50mcg LR3 taken SubQ in the AM.

I've never changed my body faster than using the above methods/thought processes.

BTW -REALLY SORRY to digress this thread but at least I didn't start the digression . Anyway, since things were going in this direction, I thought I'd add to them. Anyway...back to TREN
Believe me, I had this shit down to a tee then boom along came high dose tren and the rules changed. I was doing really well today, was 2 hours after second shot of fasted ghrp2 and going to start recarbing slowly over rest of day. Real good post there though my man.

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Old 12-01-2012, 01:28 PM
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Believe me, I had this shit down to a tee then boom along came high dose tren and the rules changed. I was doing really well today, was 2 hours after second shot of fasted ghrp2 and going to start recarbing slowly over rest of day. Real good post there though my man.

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Thanks bro.

I feel your pain about carb binging after trying to fast too long on tren
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