Letro safe as permanent AI?

[AVelasques911]

First blast in over 10 years, doing:
125mg Test E. EOD
100mg Mast. E EOD
HCG 500iu 2xwk
Exemestane 1/2 a tab (12.5) daily

Already my nipple hurts, feeling lazy and looking bloated, and can barely get an erection. I'm pretty used to this, as even on TRT of 150-200mg (which puts my sensitive e2 at only 32pg/dl.... not that high, I just seem to do better in the 15-20 range). So I already know the drill, I'll pop a letro tab for three days, half a tab for two days and 1/4 tab for four days and I'll be feeling perfect..... for a 2-3 weeks, then it's time to do the week of letro again.

It seems like my only option if I want to stick with test is to use letro. Even in the trt Doses and with masteron (200/200), I'll have to do this every two months or so as 1/4 or 1/2 a daily exemestane will only do so much, and arimidex does nothing at all.

Either I'm highly sensitive to estrogen or don't respond strongly to AI's, since a 32pg/dl level shouldn't really need letrozole to take care of, but mine does.

So is it any harsher on liver/HDL/LDL values than the others? My only other option is to not go above 100mg of test EVER, cruise on that and some mast and then blast on Tren. Which I'm tempted to do but I just see tren as a very "dirty" drug for just lifestyle use, the cardio effects alone are pretty scary to me as I want to have excellent cardio.

 

[bad rad]

I used Letro for a long time since it was all I had available from the local pharmacy. The longer I was on it the stronger I responded. It was to the point that .625mg once a week was enough for 600mg Test per week. That tiny amount gave me better results than 1mg of Arimidex.

Once I discovered it was crushing my E2 so severely it took a year to dial the dose in. I try not to take it now since I'm super sensitive to it. My lipids are still kinda weird after years without it.

 

[AVelasques911]

I used Letro for a long time since it was all I had available from the local pharmacy. The longer I was on it the stronger I responded. It was to the point that .625mg once a week was enough for 600mg Test per week. That tiny amount gave me better results than 1mg of Arimidex.

Once I discovered it was crushing my E2 so severely it took a year to dial the dose in. I try not to take it now since I'm super sensitive to it. My lipids are still kinda weird after years without it.

That's scary and what worries me.

I did try to just hang on doing 1/2 an aromasin tab daily with 200mg of TRT last year for a few months but it just kept getting worse and more painful, so did the letro for about a week and issue solved.

I know people say nolva but it's not just my nipples, it's my erections and overall drive just take a huge hit.

I suppose I could just do Aromasin and then add in the letro once every month or two to keep myself feeling ok.

I want to try to make the test work. Part of me feels like my body will respond much better to very low test, 70-100mg TOPS with 100-200 of masteron as a cruise and with 400-600 Tren as a blast.

I really want to give the test a few months though, but as you can see, even with a decent Masteron dose and TBH a fairly high daily aromasin dose, I stil get e2 iissues. On 200mg I thought my e2 was going to be through the roof, and it was only 32 (it was 32 at 100 too, oddly enough) so I'm very sensitive to it since I don't think most people would have issues at 32 (sensitive test)

 

[Fa Seeshus]

Get some raloxifene, that way you don't need to crush e2 to keep gyno down. I'd also get prolactin levels checked. Something could be raising prolactin causing you to be more sensitive to e2.

 

[Kaladryn]

All the AIs do not have any long-term safety studies, mainly because their only on-label use is cancer, this is a fact that several different doctors have warned me about over the years.

 

[AVelasques911]

I had a complete blood panel recently before this flare up (doc knows I'm on) but everything was on point including prolactin (don't have the papers with me but everything was right around mid-range). At 200mg of test my sensitive e2 typically is right around 32, ironically it's also 32 at 100mg of test.... i've tested this three times but it seems to just stay at 32. I do notice within a week of letro I feel AMAZING, energy, erections, libido, gyno gone...... so what I want to do is get a blood test right at that point and see where my e2 is then because I know letro hits that sweet spot quick...... then maybe I can maintain it with a whole arimidex pill a day on a blast and 1/2 a pill daily on a cruise, any more than that and it would start to get a little too expensive.

 

[Ashop]

Get some raloxifene, that way you don't need to crush e2 to keep gyno down. I'd also get prolactin levels checked. Something could be raising prolactin causing you to be more sensitive to e2.

Good advice. I'd go RALOX or NOLVA and definitely get a prolactin blood draw.

 

[AVelasques911]

Guys as stated I already had a full blood draw including prolactin. I don't want a SERM as the gyno is the least of my worries, it's the full loss of energy, loss of drive, very weak (if any) erections..... it's not a gyno issue, it's a full systemic issue and all i know is after a week (i've done up to three) on daily, tapered-down letro.... all issues go away and I feel great.

 

[Knight9]

Letro is a horrible choice for long term usage when you take into consideration that it crushes lipids, and can tank estrogen at any given time if you become more or less sensitive to things as you progress/get older.

Dial in a dosage for aromasin.

 

[Kaladryn]

Good advice. I'd go RALOX or NOLVA and definitely get a prolactin blood draw.

SERMS have known long-term risks though. Nolva makes me depressed too...

 

[AVelasques911]

SERMS have known long-term risks though. Nolva makes me depressed too...

Yeah, I mean I'm not crazy about either serms or AI's but aromasin seems the safest.

A SERM is not even a consideration though, what do I want good nipples for if my dick can't get hard. I'll try a full pill of aromasin daily...... that along with 400mg of masteron should crush most people's estrogen on only about 400mg of test per week, so hopefully it will at least control mine.

I don't see myself going any higher than a pill per day. If that doesn't work I might just have to go to plan B. and keep test at 75-100mg per week and use Tren as my blast and 200-300mg of Masteron as an addition to my cruise. I've suspected for a while this might be what I end up doing as I'm just way to sensitive to e2 and the lower the test the better. I'm trying to make it work though since Test/Mast, for me, is such a simple, "clean" combination.

 

[Kaladryn]

Aromasin is probably the best way to go but 25mg/day is too much for only 400mg of test, I'd start with half that and get blood work done.

 

[AVelasques911]

Aromasin is probably the best way to go but 25mg/day is too much for only 400mg of test, I'd start with half that and get blood work done.

I'm getting bloods Tuesday.

I can tell you 12.5mg per day isn't even enough for me on 200mg of Test. I mean it'll work for a bit, but every 8-12 weeks I have to do a round of letro for about a week and my sex drive, erections and energy comes back, my nipples calm back down and it keeps me there for a couple weeks, repeat.

I must be overly sensitive because 32pg/dl E2 isn't that bad at all IMO, that's with no AI at all at both 100mg and 200mg of test per week (trough).

 

[jayl19]

I was on 800mg test and 1/4 letro twice a week and bloodwork showed my e2 almost none existent, dick was limp and thin too, you can’t cut them tiny tabs any smaller the 1/4s so unless your on 2g of test per week it’s gona crush estro

 

[AVelasques911]

I was on 800mg test and 1/4 letro twice a week and bloodwork showed my e2 almost none existent, dick was limp and thin too, you can’t cut them tiny tabs any smaller the 1/4s so unless your on 2g of test per week it’s gona crush estro

For most people, absolutely. I'm a bit of an anomaly. On 200mg of Test I did 1/4 letro daily for three weeks, my sensitive e2 results? 19 pg/dl and feeling amazing. So 15-20 seems to be where I feel best.

Now if I kept going I'm pretty sure I would eventually tank, but 1/4 twice a week for me is really doubtful to lower anything too much.

We'll see if the full aromasin daily dose works.

 

[Kaladryn]

People with gyno often need to get under 20 but that is too low for E2, AIs aren't really good for gyno, nolva is much better. Consider letting your E2 be higher and short runs of nolva occasionally to reduce gyno.

 

[RealDonkeykong]

I wouldnt use it unless severe gyno... I had visible through t shirt thought id need surgery,, 2.5 rapid taper doen to .25 eod the matained e3days and large lumps had vanished completely(plus I was completely shredded) took nolva after for fear of "estro rebound" but just couple weeks.. def powerful shit. I had used NPP and test and though since deca had never bothered me before the 750 test dose was issue and upped nolva..And of course it got severely worse leading me to believe prolactin induced though again tren doesnt not cause gyno nor does deca at 300 ... npp at 300 with test with the nolva just blew gyno though roof... Now ill use Arimidex if symptoms appear but i try not to use anything unless gyno flares up which it really hasnt since then

 

[AVelasques911]

People with gyno often need to get under 20 but that is too low for E2, AIs aren't really good for gyno, nolva is much better. Consider letting your E2 be higher and short runs of nolva occasionally to reduce gyno.

But I'd like to have sex.....

I say that jokingly but I don't think anyone is getting that the gyno is the least of my worries. It's the fact that my dick becomes absolutely useless, I have no libido, I'm tired all day and have no desire to really do much of anything. Oh yeah and my nipples are a little achey.....but I could totally live with that.

I feel really good at or under 20. Even on 100mg of TRT, with no ai, like I said my sensitive e2 was 32. You could have put 20 hot naked women in front of me, my dick wouldn't even flinch. On 100mg, give me 1/2 an aromasin daily and I come back to life.

I know it's "too much" and higher estrogen is better etc. but at the end of the day , and I don't say this to be argumentative, but I want to have sex, I want to have drive to get out of bed and tackle life, I want to feel good..... if that means going against popular opinion and walking around with estrogen in teens, it's what I have to do.

 

[Rogue]

Try to dial your dosage in for TRT to where you do NOT need to use an AI/SERM.
The Idea of TRT is a long term one, AI/SERM cause LOTS of different indirect sides/discomfort.
They may be used initially when setting your dosage protocol to control the spill of what you are overtaking, but even that your body will NORMALIZE around....
Meaning, if your at 200mg/week and that puts you in your TRT zone but you have spillage(Aromatization). That spillage is in response to the NEW level of test your body is detecting in response to the therapy... and 6 weeks down the line it will balance things out.
If you know your aromtase enzyme right off the bat, your body will take LOOOOTSS longer to adapt, and balance T:E ratios.
Try as best you can NOT to use the ancillary drugs as par of your long term TRT therapy.

 

[AVelasques911]

And before I get blasted. I did the 12.5mg of daily aromasin on 100mg of test for nearly a year without tanking anything...... I'm not just trying to be argumentive, I'm telling you guys either AI's have very little effect one me (possible, since most drugs I need two to three times normal amount to even get any relief) or I'm just beyond sensitive to e2.