Such a thing as TRT w/o suppression?

[vkg1]

Can anyone tell me whether or not suppression of whatever natural production you have is a given on TRT (e.g., 100 mg T per week)?

Does it work something like that your levels go supra-physiological for a couple weeks or so when first starting, but then suppression kicks in and you end up somewhere in the middle of natural for a healthy young male?

I wonder if it is possible and at all common for patients to undergo TRT without having significant down-regulation of their natural production.

 

[TheOutlier]

Supression is in fact a given upon initiation of TRT. The rate that one's natural testosterone production becomes supressed is quite variable based on characteristics of the individual (age, medical history, supplement history, environmental factors, etc.)

You are never reaching supraphysiological levels here, that is not the intent, nor would such levels be obtained as a result from TRT.
The purpose of TRT is to help one maintain therapeutic or "optimal" testosterone levels, in hopes to improve longevity, bone health, cardiovascular heath, sexual function, well being...

 

[TheOutlier]

Your last statement leads me to believe you may have a misunderstanding of why TRT is used and who it is designed for. Patients express interest in therapy because they are experiencing symptoms commonly reported in correlation with testosterone deficiency (whether this be induce via primary, secondary, exogenous use testicular dysfunction). Assuming no other ailment, their levels are already low, and natural production is dwindling. Maintaining endogenous testosterone production is either not a concern or accepted as a risk, in addition to other risks and preventative measures of TRTthat will be discussed (hopefully will and should be discussed) with your health care provider.
Yes, there are protocols available that can assist testicular function and the HPG Axis during TRT, and after if one wishes to discontinue for a particular reason.

 

[vkg1]

Do men on TRT commonly have very significant suppression, as in it basically causes their natural production (even if it was originally low) to "shut down"?

Let's say a man's pre-TRT T level was 350, and that optimal for him would be 700. I would think the ideal would be to take only the amount necessary to boost levels by another 350. But I guess in practice TRT causes the natural levels to drop to 100 or something and the amount of exogenous T used is an amount that increases blood levels by 600 (e.g., from 100 to 700?

 

[TheOutlier]

Each individual will respond differently, the strength/dose, duration, frequency, and route of administration can all effect how well someone will recover if exogenous testosterone is discontinued. These variables were mentioned in my other response.

First, the ideal is always to take only what is needed, getting the most out of the least..
*Only considering a total testosterone level here* a very basic, not necessarily optimal, but works well in most scenerios example could present as patient comes into the office with with a total of 215 ng/dL. Chances are he's not feeling too well (decreased motive, lethargy, brain fog, depressed libido...)
Begin 100 mg testosterone Cypionate once every 7 days (remember, this is a very basic example)

In 6-8 weeks say he returns for labs, current testosterone total is now 630 ng/dL, most likely he has noticed a significant improvement in previously mentioned symptoms.

TRT = Testosterone REPLACEMENT Therapy, you are replacing what IS NOT THERE...why the big fuss over what is occurring with endogenous production if it was piss poor to begin with?

You are no longer measuring "natural" testosterone levels while on TRT or any exogenous regimen. It will take time, a long time until your body would "shut down" completely. In mamy cases, I have never read a value of "0"....but the level you are at prior to the implementation of exogenous testosterone is your baseline, this baseline will become much harder to reach again if/when testosterone is ceased, like returning back to play after an ACL reconstruction, you are no longer the same 100% you once were. Now you have a new 100%, you may be very damn close, but it's truly never the same

 

[TheOutlier]

Are you a candidate for TRT, or what has created this concern?

Your question is similar to the guys who want to put on significant size, but don't want to eat or train how is required; get lean without dieting or doing cardio when needed; or wants to sleep with the same woman, this, that, and their mother has slept with, but doesn't want an STD...there are risk and benefits to everything, evaluate the situition and make the best decision for you, your health, goals, and family...I did mention that there are specific protocols to help assist endogenous production even while on TRT...

 

[zaven]

No, ....There is no such thing as a legit TRT protocol without supression.

 

[buck]

When I first started TRT. I was put on 1 packet of Androgel. After a month my LH and FSH levels were almost zero.

 

[chainheart]

When I first started TRT. I was put on 1 packet of Androgel. After a month my LH and FSH levels were almost zero.

they are supposed to be zero after starting TRT.

if your doc had any idea what he/she was doing those levels would have been known with blood labs tested BEFORE script was given for gels. it is also a way one would know you are using your testosterone TRT.

doctors know less about male hormone therapy than just about anything i can think of. some know to look at free testosterone as well as total testosterone along with SHBG, estradiol, pregnenolone etc... but the majority of docs order blood lab for total T and think they see the whole picture.

the only time you will probably feel TOP NOTCH on TRT and ALL is most likely good is the two-three week period after beginning TRT. that is because your body is still producing some T and then the added exogenous T from gel or injection gives you the extra punch of the male hormone and everything else is still in the normal range. after beginning TRT your testes will shut down after about a month or so as the body attempts to retain a balance. they will begin to lose fullness and shrink in size and is why your doctor should be asked to include HCG (NOT HGH.) HCG besides kick-starting your testes will aide in improving pregnenolone levels.


Post not intended to diagnose or treat health issues.

 

[vkg1]

Thanks for the advice. My situation is that I have just started TRT and feel much better, but am concerned about what the situation will be a little later once suppression kicks in.

My symptoms were practically zero libido (i.e., no ability to have sex), low energy, depression, etc. I had these acute signs of low T for about 3 years before giving up on the idea that it might just be pscyhological or something and accepting that I needed to pursue TRT.

The thing was that my blood tests actually showed half-decent values: 410 ng/dl Total T, though Free T was really bottom of range.

I hate to lose the production I DID still have because I am unmarried and would still like to have children later.

I don't have the flexibility that many of you have with private doctors in the US, however. I am in a social healthcare system where you take what the doctor gives you and are thankful for what you get. Right now that is Sustanon 250 once every 3 weeks. Anything much fancier like HCG isn't going to be an option for me.

 

[GottaGain]

It doesn't seem like you quite have a full understanding that when you're injecting synthetic testosterone it doesn't matter that your own body's natural testosterone production will be nill. As long as your trt dose is putting you at a good number and e2 is in control you shouldn't have any worries. Sure there will be some testicular atrophy and your ejaculate volume will be less, maybe a little acne if your skin type is prone to it, but there are things you can do to help combat any potential side effects.

 

[chainheart]

Thanks for the advice. My situation is that I have just started TRT and feel much better, but am concerned about what the situation will be a little later once suppression kicks in.

My symptoms were practically zero libido (i.e., no ability to have sex), low energy, depression, etc. I had these acute signs of low T for about 3 years before giving up on the idea that it might just be pscyhological or something and accepting that I needed to pursue TRT.

The thing was that my blood tests actually showed half-decent values: 410 ng/dl Total T, though Free T was really bottom of range.

I hate to lose the production I DID still have because I am unmarried and would still like to have children later.

I don't have the flexibility that many of you have with private doctors in the US, however. I am in a social healthcare system where you take what the doctor gives you and are thankful for what you get. Right now that is Sustanon 250 once every 3 weeks. Anything much fancier like HCG isn't going to be an option for me.

how long have you been injecting the Sustanon 250?

you can jump start your natural T as well as the fertility process at a later date. not very clear if you are saying you can't even buy HGH or clomid from a sponsor here at professionalmuscle.com? (you would want these for higher sperm count, the morphology - sperm shape, and sperm motility)

this TRT requires a lot of reading to know how things work - not just knowing your total T number. free T is what counts. you can have a high total T but if your estradiol and SHBG are out of range you will have little or no libido. cialis/tadalafil can help make you erect but not give you the desire/libido. your Sustanon 250 is a good choice for TRT.

for instance if you have fatty waistline and high estradiol level you most likely will encounter aromatase. do you understand what that is?

my own endo doc won't prescribe HCG, has never checked estradiol and seems to know little about why it would even be necessary. that is why i will order lef.org blood labs because someone needs to know what they're doing with this. i'm not even going to delve into pregnenolone levels until you have a rudimentary understanding. read more for several months so you can speak about your worries to a greater degree.



post not intended to diagnose or treat health issues.