First endo visit. Advice and input please.

[juicyj29]

A little background and reasoning of my post: I am 28 and have dabbled with AAS on and off for the past few years. All have been moderate dosage cycles that included mostly proper pct (with exception to the last cycle a year ago).My experience with AAS has included the following: D-bol, anadrol, test c, test e, deca, and tren a. My prohormone experience has been limited to one cycle of IMG's 'Super DMZ' (which was my last cycle a year ago. I timed my cycle out to end at the same time of my departure to Germany for 8 months. Had pct all lined up and in check until the unexpected happened and lost my pct during the move. I could not obtain means of pct within the time of coming off and started slacking off more and more in gym the further i got out from ending the cycle to the point that my fatigue, lethargy, and joint pain overwhelmed any sense of drive to continue training. During my stay abroad the low T symptoms continued to worsen as time went on leaving me to believe my natural T never recovered. Being stubborn and stupid I have put off going to a Dr. Until i visited a local general physician and spilled the beans of whats going on 2 weeks ago. Had blood work ordered after a thorough explanation of my symptoms.

-Little to zero sexual desire
-Little to zero interest in activities typically enjoyed
-Lack of interest in social interactions
-Lack of motivation
-Depression
-Constant fatigue and lethargy
-Achey joints (a steady pain level of 5-7 out of 10)
-Significant Weight gain and muscle loss
-gyno (sore nipples with pea size knots)

Received results today they are as follows:

Free testosterone- 7.9
Testosterone total- 438
Estradiol- 21.2
DHT - 55
Prolactin- 10.7
FSH - 4.1
LH - 5.5
Hematocrit - 44.8
Hemoglobin- 16.3
Thyroxine binding globulin- 14
RBC- 5.12
WBC-6.6
Sodium - 142
Iron - 38
Potassium- 4.2

Have an appointment in 3 days with an endo and am very curious as to what i should ask, suggest, and expect. I am nervous to what all i should tell him or should I just be as forward and upfront as possible. Any advice and input would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Moe1ron]

To be honest I think you are going to have trouble getting a script with those numbers. Your test levels are above what most big pharma is calling low.

 

[juicyj29]

My initial pessimistic way of thinking agrees but i have seen guys with numbers on here that are nearly the same currently on trt. I think it might be possible if the endo is educated and open minded enough to know that in the arena of testosterone that numbers can lie. The numbers might not be that bad but my symptoms are destroying my life daily. My knees and elbows hurt like i would imagine a 70 yo withbad arthritis would feel like. My sex life is nonexistent, my gf damn near begs me for it and i have no interest whatsoever. Its gettin to the point that im seriosly questioning if i still have enough physical attraction to continue our relationship. The constant fatigue has turned me into a zombie that drag asses every step i take and can't remember half the shit i should to perform my job.... As a result all of this is really wearing my mental and emotional state to a breaking point. Im very aware that my personal health issues have put me on the edge of being demoted from my job and destroyin my relationship has me stressed and depressed daily. If i cant get help through this endo or another can someone provide some sound advice as to where to go from there?

 

[j4ever]

if it was me and I was your age, I would discuss getting my natty levels up.

 

[GottaGain]

My initial pessimistic way of thinking agrees but i have seen guys with numbers on here that are nearly the same currently on trt. I think it might be possible if the endo is educated and open minded enough to know that in the arena of testosterone that numbers can lie. The numbers might not be that bad but my symptoms are destroying my life daily. My knees and elbows hurt like i would imagine a 70 yo withbad arthritis would feel like. My sex life is nonexistent, my gf damn near begs me for it and i have no interest whatsoever. Its gettin to the point that im seriosly questioning if i still have enough physical attraction to continue our relationship. The constant fatigue has turned me into a zombie that drag asses every step i take and can't remember half the shit i should to perform my job.... As a result all of this is really wearing my mental and emotional state to a breaking point. Im very aware that my personal health issues have put me on the edge of being demoted from my job and destroyin my relationship has me stressed and depressed daily. If i cant get help through this endo or another can someone provide some sound advice as to where to go from there?

If it's having that much of an effect on your relationship and work then it really needs to be taken care of immediately. Unfortunately most doctors will just look at your numbers and say you're fine then probably try to prescribe you an antidepressant for the symptoms you've explained. If you can't get a prescription for trt just do it yourself.

 

[buck]

May be a thyroid issue. I don't see where that has been checked.May want a complete panel. Not just TSH.

 

[ericraven2003]

My doc wanted me under 200 before he would consider putting me on. Thus, I use Motor Boat.

 

[juicyj29]

Ok I will mention to him I want to investigate possible thyroid complications. What else can you guys suggest be the main points to hit on or questions to ask? Should i be upfront and explain my AAS usage or no? And what exactly do you mean by you "use motor boat" @ericraven?

 

[juicyj29]

So i'm pretty irritated to say the least. So i have the vist it come in starts to ask me while im there and whaf I have going on. So i started vaguely hittin on each symptoms and problems im having and we get the nipple part. Where im like hey i have a pea sized knot that growing bigger. He then tell me to take of my shirt and barely even touches em. (Like a shy 7th grader)?? Then i say sir ur gonna have to press on my nipples with your fingers to see what i mean. He barly even touches them and is like "thats just fat" i got him the wtf look and he replies "trust me ive been doing this for years)... I understand i have gained a significant ammount of weight in the past 6-7 months. I know that. But him playing off gyno as just bein fat really irked the fuck outta me! And after thAt he felt my balls and said they feel fine and that was about it... Oh yea and he wrote me a prescription for a fuckin ED med that i didnt even ask for. I told him i do not have a sexual appetite at all and then he some how twisted it into ive got ED!!... When the seldom moment arrives that i am in a good mood and wanna have some hanky panky in the bed i dont have a problem gettin it up.. But whatever i took the prescription just because i know it could used for some later on down the road. But bAck to why i was there.. This show zero interest of diggin down and figuring out how he can help. Hell the dickhead wanted to talk and ask me more about my job than my low T symptoms of why i was there.. Absolute bullshit! He was in and with a mater of 7-8 min. Top!!! Im pretty pissed! He wants me back one day in the next couple mornings to do some more blood work... Now that i know what kinda doctor he is im just gonna have to hem him up in a corner and just brake it down to him what all ive got goin on n tell him i need some fuckin professional doctors help on the situation! And that i dont need his prescriptions to get me test. I very well
Capable of obtainin my own for cheaper.. I just need the medical advice from a professional specialist that can figure out my problem!!!! Anybody ever had this type of bullshit doctor? If so how did u handle them?.... Any other advice?

 

[JuicedVenom]

My endo. A female. Went through hell and my test was @ 47. Then retest was 56 @7 am. On 200 of Cyp eow. Dropped her after my 6 months scripts ran out. Got a guy now. He's not dumb. 200 Cyp ew. Adex. Etc. takes the right endo. Or dr too get it right

 

[chainheart]

So i'm pretty irritated to say the least. He then tell me to take of my shirt and barely even touches em. (Like a shy 7th grader)?? Then i say sir ur gonna have to press on my nipples with your fingers to see what i mean. He barly even touches them and is like "thats just fat" i got him the wtf look and he replies "trust me ive been doing this for years)... But him playing off gyno as just bein fat really irked the fuck outta me! And after thAt he felt my balls and said they feel fine and that was about it... Oh yea and he wrote me a prescription for a fuckin ED med that i didnt even ask for. I told him i do not have a sexual appetite at all and then he some how twisted it into ive got ED!!... When the seldom moment arrives that i am in a good mood and wanna have some hanky panky in the bed i dont have a problem gettin it up.. But whatever i took the prescription just because i know it could used for some later on down the road. But bAck to why i was there.. This show zero interest of diggin down and figuring out how he can help. Hell the dickhead wanted to talk and ask me more about my job than my low T symptoms of why i was there.. Absolute bullshit! He was in and with a mater of 7-8 min. Top!!! Im pretty pissed! He wants me back one day in the next couple mornings to do some more blood work... Now that i know what kinda doctor he is im just gonna have to hem him up in a corner and just brake it down to him what all ive got goin on n tell him i need some fuckin professional doctors help on the situation! And that i dont need his prescriptions to get me test. I very well
Capable of obtainin my own for cheaper.. I just need the medical advice from a professional specialist that can figure out my problem!!!! Anybody ever had this type of bullshit doctor? If so how did u handle them?.... Any other advice?

i was told a long time ago you have to become an amateur endocrinologist. that doctors know less about male hormones than most other things. my endo never checked estradiol and stated that HCG was not necessary. most males on testosterone for extended periods (or for life TRT) also have low levels of pregnenolone which highly affects your mood and mental state. human chorionic gonadotropin HCG (not same as HGH) should be part of your therapy. it will help normalize your pregnenolone levels, increase size to the testes (they begin to shut down after about three weeks and have been on vacation with nothing to do but get smaller and softer as years go by - your testes might possibly shut down permanently. Yeah you get OMS.)

i would bet little slice's share of the transformation contest gear that your endo has never heard of subcutaneous test injections. intra muscular injections only - once every two weeks sometimes once a month was the ONLY protocol. when i tried to share some information on subcutaneous twice weekly injections with an insulin syringe - doc shook finger "we write the journals" - deep intra muscular DEPOT injections only (with a 1.5 inch 18 gauge probably)

i wouldn't tell your endo jack about your ability to get test. that is a dead end and these days there is no telling what notes he may leave in your files that may or may not be seen by the wrong people.

cancel your appointment. anything STEROID related has been so twisted and BASHED in media and evidently endo school, like you're smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. seriously the docs act like they will be defending themselves in court for 100mg scripts. i'm surprised you didn't tell us he prescribed you statins along with ED meds.

Post not intended to diagnose or treat health issues.

 

[LK3]

well your test levels are not "low" at 400+...

so no normal dr is giving you test.

longevity clinic MAYBE but that's cash.

really as much as you don't want to hear it your tests show no medical problem...

there is a big difference when you have a Toyota, then amp that shit up to a Ferrari then its back to the old Toyota again... guess you shoulda thought about that part FIRST!


either get used to life in the slow lane, or...

 

[juicyj29]

@lk3 its not that I arranged blood work, visited a general physician, and an endocrinologist to obtain a script which judging by the tone of your post you are implying. I don't need him to get it so there's no need to apologize for the truth bomb. I seeked professional help because I had hopes for answers to why I feel so shitty daily from the moment i get up until I go to bed. I am not an endocrinologist and I assume you're not either, granted you probably are well educated in the endocrinology department. Instead of noting my test results which I had already acknowledged were not that bad in a previous post would you care to share you opinion of possibilities to go from here? I will go in for more blood work thursday to dig a little deeper into the testosterone spectrum. After comparing my numbers to the research of the HRT forum here I believe this avenue for reasoning and diagnosis has come to a dead end. Its bittersweet in the sense that I can't easily pin point to what I have going on but according to my numbers I am still producing. Which is great but it opens up a whole another can of worms that could be the issue. From what I read I should tell the lab to test me for any thyroid issues. I am at my wits end and am seeking guidance and answers... Not a hand out of a prescription. And btw I have never felt anywhere near Ferarri status as you put it while on cycle. Test and tren was always my go to cycle then a run with super DMZ.. I've never heard of anyone feeling "Ferarri" like while running tren and a strong PH

 

[LK3]

dude, your issues/concerns are big and broad and could be caused by a number of things...

maybe youre just a lil depressed. lol
im not laughing in a bad way.
I am speaking to you from personal understanding and struggle with tons of shit like this.

there is not usually just one answer.

read the last cpl pages of the metaformin thread on the main board. morepain n I talk some about the mental aspect of what juice can do to you.

I can in no way tell you what to do as there are just too many possibilities.

the best I can suggest is get on a good healthy diet, get up do cardio, go to the gym, be active, be with your girl, watch some porn do activites that generate dopamine and feel good test raising sorta shit.

you can always choose hrt for life. but that a big step...

ill be doing that but ill also be taking umpteen other things.

happy to talk of possibilities but at this point they are sorta endless.

I have posted tons of shit about mood, and drugs and whatever.
read a lil.

do your doc stuff, see what happens.

 

[richiec]

@lk3 its not that I arranged blood work, visited a general physician, and an endocrinologist to obtain a script which judging by the tone of your post you are implying. I don't need him to get it so there's no need to apologize for the truth bomb. I seeked professional help because I had hopes for answers to why I feel so shitty daily from the moment i get up until I go to bed. I am not an endocrinologist and I assume you're not either, granted you probably are well educated in the endocrinology department. Instead of noting my test results which I had already acknowledged were not that bad in a previous post would you care to share you opinion of possibilities to go from here? I will go in for more blood work thursday to dig a little deeper into the testosterone spectrum. After comparing my numbers to the research of the HRT forum here I believe this avenue for reasoning and diagnosis has come to a dead end. Its bittersweet in the sense that I can't easily pin point to what I have going on but according to my numbers I am still producing. Which is great but it opens up a whole another can of worms that could be the issue. From what I read I should tell the lab to test me for any thyroid issues. I am at my wits end and am seeking guidance and answers... Not a hand out of a prescription. And btw I have never felt anywhere near Ferarri status as you put it while on cycle. Test and tren was always my go to cycle then a run with super DMZ.. I've never heard of anyone feeling "Ferarri" like while running tren and a strong PH

I've talked with LK3 enough to know he wasn't being a dick. He's right though, you may be seriously dealing with a depression issue that isn't related to your test levels. Let the docs run the tests to see what it could be, it may very well be that you need and anti-depressant as much as I don't like them. Some people legit need them, you may be one of them.

I understand your point, I went "off" everything last year, no pct and it sucked! There comes a point where you have to make yourself do things regardless on how you feel. I took almost a year off from the gym, body ached and didn't feel like doing the things I used to like doing. Just had to make myself do them, and they got easier to do.

 

[LK3]

I've talked with LK3 enough to know he wasn't being a dick. He's right though, you may be seriously dealing with a depression issue that isn't related to your test levels. Let the docs run the tests to see what it could be, it may very well be that you need and anti-depressant as much as I don't like them. Some people legit need them, you may be one of them.

I understand your point, I went "off" everything last year, no pct and it sucked! There comes a point where you have to make yourself do things regardless on how you feel. I took almost a year off from the gym, body ached and didn't feel like doing the things I used to like doing. Just had to make myself do them, and they got easier to do.

lol

yeah, usually pretty clear when im being a dick! lol

 

[2016aldoraine]

That free testosterone number would concern me. I'm assuming you're high SHBG. I'd pull that and see if that's an issue. Your total testosterone number is shit for your age imho. But it isn't substantially low and no regular doc will treat that. I was in the same boat prior to trt. I was low-normal total testosterone and below normal free testosterone. No doc or endo could rationalize my symptoms. I went to an anti aging clinic. They no a lot more about hormones than and endo.

 

[raw33man]

Do not listen to these people...

Your free Testosterone is SHIT.... and that's what matters.... your SHBG must be above medium. The greatest TRT docs don't give a fuck about numbers, they go by how you feel first, then they look at your numbers... You feel like shit ? Ok there's something wrong, and looking at those numbers, your FREE is shit, I would grow a vagina with that level

 

[richiec]

Do not listen to these people...

Your free Testosterone is SHIT.... and that's what matters.... your SHBG must be above medium. The greatest TRT docs don't give a fuck about numbers, they go by how you feel first, then they look at your numbers... You feel like shit ? Ok there's something wrong, and looking at those numbers, your FREE is shit, I would grow a vagina with that level

While you do make good points raw33man, many doctors (endos specifically) have become a little bit more cautious with writing out scripts based on the patients feelings due to the litigious society we are in. I mean, I see lawyer commercials talking about strokes, heart attacks and what not being caused from TRT and CALL NOW TO SUE SUE SUE!!!!! Obviously they aren't disclosing that these men have pre-existing issues, it was clearly the TRT

No go to a "clinic" and they're more apt to write a script, but many of these cash and carry places are being closed down. I agree his free test is garbage, and perhaps the doctor he visited didn't address that, but we are only getting one side of the story here. Not saying the OP is lying or anything, but there could be things being left out.

 

[finxster]

I went through general's and endo's with no help. Go to a urologist. Mine was a godsend.