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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2009, 10:28 PM
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Using an antiestrogen?

I'm trying to get a general consensus on the use of anti-estrogens during cycles... do you guys consider it a necessity to run an anti-e like arimidex during a cycle? I've been doing the research, and while lots of people claim that it helps, most people don't use one (or post about it in their cycles). Thanks bros
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2009, 10:36 PM
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Some ppl will take a maintenance dose to keep water-retention low, which is caused by elevated estrogen, but some see that as hindering gains cuz you will weigh less and look less fuller (even tho it's water-weight).. If you're not succeptible to gyno tho, you can just basically keep them on hand unless you need them.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 04:00 AM
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You should never use Testosterone without an Aromatase Inhibitor. You're right, a lot of guys do. But it's a mistake and this is not a place to cut corners.
Arimidex is not very well suited to men cycling. It has a poor profile for lowering E2 in men and because it's competitive it will cause a rebound when you stop. You should use Aromasin (exemestane).

Your mortal enemy as a man is high levels of estrogen. It causes an increase in fat, high blood pressure, prostate enlargement and cancer, acne, mood swings (read: roid rage), and a host of other long term problems.
Guys think they're getting away with not using an AI but they're not. They are putting their bodies through the wringer and don't even know it until one day everything goes wrong. And it will happen.
Invrt, AJW91 and arkansas like this.
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Great thread on Anti-estrogens Anti-Estrogens
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 05:00 AM
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how much aromasin would one use if they were taking only 200mg or even 250mg test per week? i have read a lot of old posts but just to make sure im up to date. thanks, rich
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 05:06 AM
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It's half life is 27 hours so 12.5mg/day is fine at that dose.
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Great thread on Anti-estrogens Anti-Estrogens
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Researchstop View Post
You should never use Testosterone without an Aromatase Inhibitor. You're right, a lot of guys do. But it's a mistake and this is not a place to cut corners.
Arimidex is not very well suited to men cycling. It has a poor profile for lowering E2 in men and because it's competitive it will cause a rebound when you stop. You should use Aromasin (exemestane).

Your mortal enemy as a man is high levels of estrogen. It causes an increase in fat, high blood pressure, prostate enlargement and cancer, acne, mood swings (read: roid rage), and a host of other long term problems.
Guys think they're getting away with not using an AI but they're not. They are putting their bodies through the wringer and don't even know it until one day everything goes wrong. And it will happen.

What are your thoughts on letro for a cycle?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Researchstop View Post
You should never use Testosterone without an Aromatase Inhibitor. You're right, a lot of guys do. But it's a mistake and this is not a place to cut corners.
Arimidex is not very well suited to men cycling. It has a poor profile for lowering E2 in men and because it's competitive it will cause a rebound when you stop. You should use Aromasin (exemestane).

Your mortal enemy as a man is high levels of estrogen. It causes an increase in fat, high blood pressure, prostate enlargement and cancer, acne, mood swings (read: roid rage), and a host of other long term problems.
Guys think they're getting away with not using an AI but they're not. They are putting their bodies through the wringer and don't even know it until one day everything goes wrong. And it will happen.
Ive always used arimidex, thanks for the info.....gonna get some aromasin
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Researchstop View Post
You should never use Testosterone without an Aromatase Inhibitor. You're right, a lot of guys do. But it's a mistake and this is not a place to cut corners.
Arimidex is not very well suited to men cycling. It has a poor profile for lowering E2 in men and because it's competitive it will cause a rebound when you stop. You should use Aromasin (exemestane).

Your mortal enemy as a man is high levels of estrogen. It causes an increase in fat, high blood pressure, prostate enlargement and cancer, acne, mood swings (read: roid rage), and a host of other long term problems.
Guys think they're getting away with not using an AI but they're not. They are putting their bodies through the wringer and don't even know it until one day everything goes wrong. And it will happen.
I see exemestane in my future for further research
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 11:41 AM
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Why is aromasin so much better than arimidex?
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 617ricky View Post
Why is aromasin so much better than arimidex?
As I posted, Arimidex is better at inhibiting sulfatase than it is E2. Your worry for the most part is E2 (estradiol). Also Arimidex competes with testosterone for the aromatase as a way of inhibiting the conversion you would get from aromatase. Because it competes and leaves the aromatase alive, so when you come off you get a flood of estrogen, or rebound.
Aromasin does not compete. It's suicidal. It attaches to the aromatase and kills it. In doing so it does a much better job of reducing E2 AND there is no rebound when you come off of it because it's killed the aromatase.
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Great thread on Anti-estrogens Anti-Estrogens
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:18 PM
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So for a Test/Deca cycle, 500mg/400mg per wk respectively, what would you recommend for protection during the cycle, and then for PCT? I'll be taking a small dose of hcg during the cycle as well.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 617ricky View Post
So for a Test/Deca cycle, 500mg/400mg per wk respectively, what would you recommend for protection during the cycle, and then for PCT? I'll be taking a small dose of hcg during the cycle as well.
If you don't have a problem with Deca then your HCG is about all you need. If you DO have a problem with Deca then find a dopamine agonist. I use Pramipexole at .25mg/day 2 hours before bed is a good one. Read about it here.
Most people use 12.5mg/day of Aromasin to start, if you get any symptoms like bloating for instance or puffy nipples then go to the full dose of 25mg/day.

Your HCG will make recovery easier. Be sure to run the Test two week longer than the Deca. Use 50mg/day of Clomiphene (clomid) for two weeks. Continue the 12.5mg/day of Aromasin throughout your PCT and another 2 weeks to be safe.
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Great thread on Anti-estrogens Anti-Estrogens

Last edited by Researchstop; 03-20-2009 at 05:17 AM.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jdchaffin View Post
What are your thoughts on letro for a cycle?
It's the most powerful. It does the best job of killing aromatase. But sometimes a little too good. If you don't find your sweet spot dosing it you can end up with no libido, sore joints, and no erection. (Estrogen controls your erection, no E no hardon.
For me, it's too strong.
VNV likes this.
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Great thread on Anti-estrogens Anti-Estrogens

Last edited by Researchstop; 03-20-2009 at 05:15 AM.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Researchstop View Post
Use. 12.5mg/day of Aromasin to start, if you get any symptoms like bloating for instance or puffy nipples then go to the full dose of 25mg/day.
So with Aromasin, I wouldn't need any arimidex or nolvadex either? And is it able to be run EOD or E3D like Arimidex would, if I'm not experiencing any negative effects?
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Researchstop View Post
It's the most powerful. It does the best job of killing aromatase. But sometimes a little too good. If you don't find your sweet spot dosing it you can end up with no libido, sore joints, and no erection. (Estrogen controls your erection, no E no hardon.
For me, it's too strong so I don't recommend it. But I don't recommend against it like I do with Arimidex.
thanks, I appretiate the imput on your products.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 01:13 PM
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So far im on week 4 of my cycle and not a single sign of puffy nips or water retention. Im on 300mg/week of Test E. Im on Aromasin at 12.5mg/EOD and its working great. Im gonna run it all the way thru even during PCT.

Researchstop, do you think its ok to be dosing at EOD intervals? Exemestane isnt exactly the cheapest substance on the planet, so if I can make a bottle go a long way that would be great.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 01:15 PM
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does aromasin need to be started early? How long does it take to reach peak blood levels?
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmyjones View Post
So far im on week 4 of my cycle and not a single sign of puffy nips or water retention. Im on 300mg/week of Test E. Im on Aromasin at 12.5mg/EOD and its working great. Im gonna run it all the way thru even during PCT.

Researchstop, do you think its ok to be dosing at EOD intervals? Exemestane isnt exactly the cheapest substance on the planet, so if I can make a bottle go a long way that would be great.
I'm not RS, but can add some info on this to some degree.

ED dosing is preferrred, but EOD is definately effective for many. If you are not having any problems, then I wouldn't worry about upping the dosage of taking ED at this time.

As a note, dosing will be kind of subjective, meaning each can be less or more susceptible to estrogen and aromatse, thus causing gyno signs. So it's hard to give a stamped in stone good for all dosage for every user. As a range to what most have reported 12.5 to 25mg ED to EOD is standard for dosing. Not saying some can't get away with less, or even less frequently dosed either. With AI's, you really have to use some own trial and error in dosing. Some users can get away with 12.5mg EOD while others may need 25mg ED.

If you notice that you get achy joints and decrease in libido, then I would suggest cutting back on dosing amounts, either total or frequency of the dosing. These can be signs that you are suppressing estroegn too much.

While you do not want elevated estrogen, you also do not want it too low either. FInding the right dosage is going to take some trial and error on the part of each user, just like any other compound, drug, or supplement.

On the contrary, if you notice that itchiness and/or tenderness of the nipples start to occur, then i'd suggest increasing the dosage as needed.....AND/OR lower your AAS dosages.

Good luck

BMJ

Last edited by MR. BMJ; 03-11-2009 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:36 PM
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If all you used was 2.5mg per week of letro to keep gyno away then one bottle of this would last for 5 12 week cycles correct? Also, 2.5mg per week wouldn't hinder any gains would it? I know that 2.5mg per week took it away so does that mean I can get away with a smaller amount per week if i didn't need 2.rmg to keep it down? I want to use the smallest amount possible to not hinder any gains and keep any gyno away.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 617ricky View Post
So with Aromasin, I wouldn't need any arimidex or nolvadex either? And is it able to be run EOD or E3D like Arimidex would, if I'm not experiencing any negative effects?
Right. Aromasin is better than Arimidex and you never want to use Nolvadex. Not only will Nolvadex lower your igf-1 and GH but it can actually promote gyno if you're using a progestin like tren/deca.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjones View Post
So far im on week 4 of my cycle and not a single sign of puffy nips or water retention. Im on 300mg/week of Test E. Im on Aromasin at 12.5mg/EOD and its working great. Im gonna run it all the way thru even during PCT.

Researchstop, do you think its ok to be dosing at EOD intervals? Exemestane isnt exactly the cheapest substance on the planet, so if I can make a bottle go a long way that would be great.
I would not dose it EOD even though half of those using it do that. It has a 27 hour half life so using it EOD is going to roller coaster your blood levels. Your body has a hard time dealing with uneven blood levels of estrogen. Use 6.25mg/ED if 12.5mg is too much. But honestly I don't think you should. I think that you should do what others do and use 12.5mg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdchaffin View Post
does aromasin need to be started early? How long does it take to reach peak blood levels?
No, you can start it the same day you start your cycle.
It reaches peak the same day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by massnup View Post
If all you used was 2.5mg per week of letro to keep gyno away then one bottle of this would last for 5 12 week cycles correct? Also, 2.5mg per week wouldn't hinder any gains would it? I know that 2.5mg per week took it away so does that mean I can get away with a smaller amount per week if i didn't need 2.rmg to keep it down? I want to use the smallest amount possible to not hinder any gains and keep any gyno away.
Per week? No.
2.5 per day is the maximum dose that men use. Most men can use only 1.25mg/ED.
AI's do not inhibit gains. This is a myth from body builders who used AI's and didn't get bloated so they thought they were inhibiting their gains. Put that out of you head.

I want to say this again...
You are not using an AI just to keep gyno away. You are using it for your overall health. High levels of estrogen from a Test cycle will cause loss of libido, acne, high blood pressure, fat gain, enlarged prostate, and roid rage or mood swings. It's not Testosterone that causes anger issues, it's the estrogen. You're PMSing, just like a girl. And for the same reasons.
Don't cut corners here.
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The fictional information and opinion contained in this post is solely that of the fictional avatar/character researchstop and does not reflect the views, opinions or policies of researchstop.com, its parent company or affiliates. This information presented is for entertainment purposes ONLY. Under no circumstances are research chemicals to be consumed or used for any purpose other than is allowed under the law. Any discussion of similar compounds is to be solely construed as a discussion of pharmaceuticals prescribed by and supervised by your physician.

www.researchstop.com

Great thread on Anti-estrogens Anti-Estrogens

Last edited by Researchstop; 03-20-2009 at 05:13 AM.
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