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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2017, 07:28 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by asteelz View Post
looking at the insulin / gh /mk your hardly on a cruise. i would maximize the time to grow. test around 3-400, and some non toxic drug/s that favor body re composition like boldenone/ masteron / primobolan. The problem, in my opinion, with gaining so much size while not using much androgen is that its just not going to be muscle. then you have to work harder later to get it off. if your concerned about long term health, the other mitogens your using are much less forgiving then androgens. if your blasting grams of gear plus orals etc then yea expect toxicity but something like

300 test
400 bold
or
300 test
400 primo
is pretty light on the system . then when its time to prep again kick thing up from there. especially if your going into bodybuilding.. very few guys can get away with low dosing and still make it in competitive bodybuilding. its just not in the cards genetically for 90% of us. I am not in favor of mega dosing, i dont believe 4+ grams of hormones are necessary, but a medium exists that without i believe most will fail in this sport.
Thanks for the advice! Just throwing this out there, but aren't boldenone and primo rather weak as far as androgens go in comparison to test? I would imagine for a lot of people increasing the test would be a good since there's a wealth of evidence that it increases fat cell lipolysis. With that in mind, I am not suggesting this necessarily for myself as I don't seem to react well to test in that it bloats me much more than most and I have a hard time keeping that under control even with pharm grade AIs. I can also see why you recommended stacking instead of just increasing test to 5-600 though, as a lot of people think stacking is superior to running higher doses of one compound.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2017, 12:21 PM
asteelz's Avatar
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Posts: 1,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by pk18 View Post
Thanks for the advice! Just throwing this out there, but aren't boldenone and primo rather weak as far as androgens go in comparison to test? I would imagine for a lot of people increasing the test would be a good since there's a wealth of evidence that it increases fat cell lipolysis. With that in mind, I am not suggesting this necessarily for myself as I don't seem to react well to test in that it bloats me much more than most and I have a hard time keeping that under control even with pharm grade AIs. I can also see why you recommended stacking instead of just increasing test to 5-600 though, as a lot of people think stacking is superior to running higher doses of one compound.
I say androgens in the scientific sense of anything that binds to the androgen receptor. And yes your right I recommend ether bold or primo because bold metabolizes into dhb and primo is a derivative of dhb and both over time will help to dry the physique out and add lean tissue that's free of bloat. I think higher doses of test are necessary for reaching massive size , but relative to the other compounds used and individual biochemistry
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2017, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asteelz View Post
I say androgens in the scientific sense of anything that binds to the androgen receptor. And yes your right I recommend ether bold or primo because bold metabolizes into dhb and primo is a derivative of dhb and both over time will help to dry the physique out and add lean tissue that's free of bloat. I think higher doses of test are necessary for reaching massive size , but relative to the other compounds used and individual biochemistry
I do like the idea of trying to minimize bloat, even in the off-season as it makes it difficult for me to tell how much quality tissue I am actually putting on. I will probably try primo someday, but it's a little pricy for me. I really enjoy mast and eq though.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2017, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asteelz View Post
I say androgens in the scientific sense of anything that binds to the androgen receptor. And yes your right I recommend ether bold or primo because bold metabolizes into dhb and primo is a derivative of dhb and both over time will help to dry the physique out and add lean tissue that's free of bloat. I think higher doses of test are necessary for reaching massive size , but relative to the other compounds used and individual biochemistry


I agree with everything said here and my two cent on the matter,
Drop the slin bro it's not needed for you. These GH secretagogues aren't helping your water retention in any way. I imagine your heart and breathing are about to explode at this point. Post show window of 6 weeks is not the time to take anything that will purposely make you retain even more water. Shitty diets are good enough for that and from what I see you are eating everything you get your hands on. Post show you are at your highest anabolic window of the year, your feeding yourself with shitty food and more mitogens vs more clean food and good androgens like Steel suggested.
IMO run some EQ, Mast, primo and maybe switch to prop and drop 25lbs before you try to put weight back on. Next time put it on the right way. You don't want to look like Lee Preist in the off season. Your last show lacked conditioning, this is the first thing you should bring to the table in your next show. Don't worry about the size it will come.


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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2017, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexpack215 View Post
I agree with everything said here and my two cent on the matter,
Drop the slin bro it's not needed for you. These GH secretagogues aren't helping your water retention in any way. I imagine your heart and breathing are about to explode at this point. Post show window of 6 weeks is not the time to take anything that will purposely make you retain even more water. Shitty diets are good enough for that and from what I see you are eating everything you get your hands on. Post show you are at your highest anabolic window of the year, your feeding yourself with shitty food and more mitogens vs more clean food and good androgens like Steel suggested.
IMO run some EQ, Mast, primo and maybe switch to prop and drop 25lbs before you try to put weight back on. Next time put it on the right way. You don't want to look like Lee Preist in the off season. Your last show lacked conditioning, this is the first thing you should bring to the table in your next show. Don't worry about the size it will come.


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Respectfully, I will try to clear up a few things and explain my rationale for what I am doing.

First and foremost, I have to disagree about the low dose slin. Both GH and MK-677 are known to cause insulin resistance and spikes in blood sugar which will lead to beta cell burnout. A low dose of insulin can prevent this, and actually give our beta cells rest by not causing our body to have to excessively produce insulin in response to GH and MK-677. Removing the insulin would likely negatively affect both my physique and health. The links below discuss this a bit.

GEARD Up ? GEARD Up LE 3 ? LADIES EDITION ? IFBB PRO COLETTE NELSON


As far as my heart goes, my blood pressure is coming back great (123/65 this morning) and I feel fine. If needed, I have micardis which I could run at a low dose for blood pressure issues. In fact, I might run 1/4 a tab (10 mgs) for the health benefits it employs alone. I'm using anabolics as my food, which I would argue are a lot less dangerous than the amount of drugs people tend to push on forums, though truth be told, competitive bodybuilding has nothing to do with health whatsoever anyway.

Best Drug To Treat Hypertension | Life Extension

I posted a general outline of my diet on the very first post which I have been adhering to for the past month now. I am not eating shitty food. In fact, I am very selective with what I eat. I track saturated fats and trans fats and keep them to a minimum, opting instead for PUFAs and MUFAs. I get in 50-60 grams of fat a day (which would make it hard to eat those shitty foods I suppoedly eat?), and ten of those are coming from fish oil so I get my EPA and DHA in.

In order to limit those aforementioned blood sugar spikes, I opt for low glycemic carb sources (though individuals actually respond differently to different carb sources and there are numerous limitations of the glycemic index), such as oatmeal, whole wheat pasta and beans. I average around 75 grams of fiber this way. I also avoid sugar, particularly fructose, at all times other than post-workout, since fructose is ineffective at restoring muscle glycogen, and may end up being stored as triglycerides once liver glycogen is full. Post-workout, I often have 3-5 servings of cereal, but that's as sugary and cheaty as I get.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3165600

I would love to look like Lee Priest in the off-season, if that meant I would have a dramatically different physique once I cut down the fat. Of course, I am no Lee Priest (quite the opposite from the genetic standpoint probably), but ensuring I get a large amount of calories in and dominate my logbook seems like the best and safest way (note: not going crazy on drugs) to maximize my LBM gains on a body that clearly wants nothing to do with it. For what it's worth, the best size and strength gains I have ever seen were on powerlifters who wanted to jump a weight class and weren't afraid of getting sloppy in their off-season. Admittedly, most of them never cut down and stay fat, but what if they did?

Basically, I look at this as a short term cost that will hopefully yield long-term dividends. Sure, I may look like shit during the off-season. Who cares? I'm not stepping on a stage like this nor do I do this to impress anyone but myself. I plan to experiment and try to put on the size I want, hang out there for a bit, diet down to more acceptable levels once I am happy with my size + strength, and then start looking from shows from there. Maybe I will just become a fat pile of lard and when I diet down, I will be disappointed in my gains, but at least then, I know. What I have been doing previously has not been working.

Some articles that inspired me...

I absolutely love stuff like this! Absolutely love it!

"Paying Your Dues" -- Dante Trudel/Doggcrapp
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2017, 11:51 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
And yeah, my conditioning could have been better. I still was leaning out, just ran out of time. Lesson learned!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2017, 05:27 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
6/30/17

Shoulder/Tricep Emphasis

Seated Smith Machine OHP


190x11-1RP-0RP (185x12-1RP-0RP)

Hammer Strength Shoulder Press

210x11 (200x12)

MTS Hammer Strength Shoulder Press

220x13 (200x14)

Lifefitness Lateral Raise

175x14-4RP-3RP (170x13RP-4RP-2RP)

DC Shoulder Stretch

Slow Eccentric Paused Reverse Grip BP


195x9-3RP-2RP (185x6)

Plate Loaded Dip (Hammer Strength)

140x24

Deadstop Floor DB Skullcrushers

35'sx11-3RP-2RP (35'sx11RP-3RP-2RP)

Notes:

Shoulder work went great. I pulled the close grip bench from the rotation since they were irritating my pec too much to progress on. Reverse grip went really well though. I'm going to give the DB Skullcrushers one more go before I ditch them as they've only progressed one rep in three weeks now, which isn't going to cut it.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2017, 06:06 AM
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Posts: 976
The difference between what Dante was talking about and what you're doing is dante's guys went up 65-75 pounds over the course of 12-18 months. Not 5 weeks. I'm sure he would agree himself my man.

Man I love that thread though!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2017, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg091593 View Post
The difference between what Dante was talking about and what you're doing is dante's guys went up 65-75 pounds over the course of 12-18 months. Not 5 weeks. I'm sure he would agree himself my man.

Man I love that thread though!
That's a fair point and though I am sure everyone realizes it, Dante in no way condoned what I am doing/have done in this log. If I regret my choices, the only person I have to blame is myself. I started contest prep @240, and I am around 230 now, so I am almost back to where I started before prep though it has stabilized for sure the past two to three weeks.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2017, 04:04 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
7/01/17

Back Emphasis

Hammer Strength Deadlift


360x12 --> stopped here because of lower back pain, had a lot left though

Iso-Lateral Low Row (Hammer Strength)

310x8-3RP-2RP (305x8-3RP-1RP)

Lat Flexor (Flex Fitness)

255x10-4RP-1RP (240x11-5RP-4RP)

Chest Supported Row Machine (Rear Delt Focus)

120x14 (120x12) --> from prep, plan to do these earlier in the workout

Iso-Lateral Front Lat Pulldown (Hammer Strength)

210x10-3RP-1RP (205x10-3RP-2RP)

Plate Loaded Seated Bicep (Hammer Strength)

90x12-2RP-1RP (90x11-3RP-1RP)

DC Bicep Stretch

DC Back Stretch

Notes:


I feel like this day was a bit of a wash. Nothing went amazingly well and the bicep curls were a big disappointment considering this is only my third time doing them. Low rows were better today, but I also did them earlier in the workout than last week. Lat flexor is hard to tell since I did it later in the workout this time and I made a decent jump in weight to try to bring it back into the 11-15rp range.

MIGHT be time to do a DC cruise/deload soon. I will evaluate based off the next couple of workouts.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2017, 04:08 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
7/03/17

Chest/Abs Emphasis

Flat Iso-Lateral Bench Press (Hammer Strength)


245x9-2RP-1RP (240x10-2RP-1RP) --> Brought grip out a bit

Incline Iso-Lateral Chest Press (Hammer Strength)

240x11-2RP-1RP (240x10-1RP-1RP)--> Brought grip out a bit

Nitro Incline Press

185x9 (185x9) --> Might pull due to lack of progress

Star Trac Pectoral Fly

160x14 (160x12)

DC Chest Stretch

Lateral Raise (Life Fitness)


175x16-6RP-3RP (170x16-6RP-3RP)

MTS Abdominal Crunch

85x15-4RP-3RP

Abdominal Crunch (Life Fitness)

115x11-5RP-3RP (105x12-7RP-2RP)

Seated Hip Adduction (LifeFitness)

270x16-3RP-2RP

Notes:

Just keep trudging along. I changed my first abdominal exercise to something a little more challenging so that the rep range wouldn't be so obnoxiously high. The Nitro Incline Press hasn't really been progressing all that well, so I am considering changing it for another incline press machine, hammer strength decline press or the MTS decline press. I've been adding in kneeling leg curls on this day since the machine is broken at the location that I train at on Thursdays, but the one at this location was broken too! Because of that, I switched them for hip adduction work, which I was wanting to do 2x a week anyway.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2017, 03:40 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
7/04/17

Bicep/Forearms/Abs Focused

EZ-Bar Preacher Curl

70x15-2RP-1RP (70x13-2RP-2RP)

Hammer Strength MTS Bicep Curl
40x13 (35x19)

Free Motion Dual Cable Cross Curl
27.5'sx12RP-3RP-2RP (27.5'sx13RP-2RP-2RP) --> Didn't have a long break like last week

Seated (No Angle) DB Hammer Curls
35'sx15 (35'sx13)

Reverse EZ-Bar Curls
80x15 (70x20)

EZ-Bar Preacher Forearm Curl
70x20 (60x20)

DC Bicep Stretch

Rear Delt Machine Fly
170x14-6RP-4RP (160x14-5RP-3RP)

Standing Calf Raise Machine
225x13-5RP-4RP + 1 min stretch w/ 90 lbs (225x12-4RP-4RP)

45 Degree Donkey Calf Raise Machine
120x14 (120x13)

Notes:

Decent day overall. The calf work is really starting to catch up to me as I am really struggling to progress it, but at least I am still managing to do so for now. Though I fall into the category of "weak on everything/need to get bigger all-around", my arms lag behind pretty badly, so this is a very important day to me.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2017, 11:43 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
I dropped carbs from 600 to 450, with 325 grams of the carbs coming during the pre and post workout time period. Also, been thinking more about what anabolics I will add in in the next month or two and here are my thoughts. They were somewhat inspired by the article I will post below, but I also have to take some of my personal experiences into consideration.

Thoughts:

-- Bump test to 500

-- I would like to try to add in an oral that I will cycle 4/2 on/off. I'm thinking 50 mgs anadrol or 20-30 mgs dbol, and I might even go back and forth between the two each cycle to see which I like and tolerate better. I haven't touched either of these much as they both gave me acid reflux previously, but I think I have that under control now where it would be worth a shot.

-- Add in test suspension @50 mgs ED. I've never ran suspension before, but I have always wanted to considering my powerlifting background and its popularity in there. With that in mind, the ED pinning would be very annoying and I am unsure as to whether that would be worth the reward.

-- Add in 300 mgs of eq or deca. I lean towards EQ as I have some health concerns about nandrolone based off the literature.

I'm not saying that I would add in all of these. Bumping test would be for certain, but I would probably only do one or possibly two of the other additions, not all three.

Growth principles for beginners
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:56 AM
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Still chugging on along, just logging stuff on my phone. Does anyone know what happened to the sponsor HGHKits (hghkits.com)? I put in an order from them and it never arrived, they aren't responding via email anymore and now, their website is gone.
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