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Facts and Fiction On HGH "self testing methods" Igf/hgh serum

rAJJIN

Moderator / FOUNDING Member
Staff member
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Jun 8, 2002
Messages
14,406
Lets say we do get some good honest members that
we the staff beleive have no bad intentions, they have been here many years as contributers....Guys we know and trust, the core members of this site.

Not will lump lumps or 1 year new member none of us real know or have gotten to know Like the core guys.

All that aside here is my Question-
______________

Can we get a thread going with some basic facts with something showing its fact. Information to back the claim.

HGH self testing method using Blood test.

IGF Levels-
Last month and for many months prior what I seen here was this was the method used. Guys we trust and know I have seen post very numbers. 300-600 and so on. Is this the best blood test test to tell us if the hgh is indeed real?

hgh serum levels.
This seems pretty new, or atleast to me what I see monitoring these threads every day for 10 years.
Its been mentioned a lot recently, so was hoping to real get the facts and fiction on this. Is this a better method then the above?
And did we as a Community of 75,ooo just figure this out? a month ago?
Maybe its here in old threads and Ive always missed it , or it was over my head and I didnt notice or understand at the time.


Guys seem to recently want to use #2 and post results openly here.
Can we make sure first we know exactly what we are talking about, exactly how it could be used and how-whast if anything as far as timing and doses need to be used etc
 
Raj,

I will be the first to respond here. And this is straight medical facts which is irrelevant of what brand of HGH we use. In the medical field we use HGH for a few reasons main ones being Short Stature, Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency and Turner Syndrome along with a few other ones but those three are the main ones. Now you have to realize that since we prescribe pharm grade HGH the question is never whether the HGH is real or not. That does not even enter a practitioners mind. So 95% testing we do is IGF. Kids and adults that are put on HGH are started at a said dosage such as 0.3 to 0.7mg/kg per week divided in seven equal doses. We always start on the low end and at the 30 day mark check IGF level to see how the patient's body is responding to that HGH and adjust dosage up and down from there.

For this purpose all we care about is IGF-1 numbers. That is all. Obviously it is dose related and the higher the dose the higher the IGF-1 but one kid may have a higher efficiency due to several factors to convert those HGH to IGF-1. We never test serum HGH on most of these patients because it does not tell us anything.

About the only time we actually test serum HGH is when we are actually trying to determine if a "natural" patient whether a kid or adult is growth hormone deficient and where the possible cause of problem lies within the endocrine system. So we will do a Growth Hormone stimulation test to see if the persons body itself has the capability to produce growth hormone when stimulated. We of course also test the IGF-1 but it gives us a better combined answer.

In the case of using non-pharm grade HGH when the concern always is whether it is legit changes things completely. Now IGF-1 still can be used and when the numbers are out of the ball park then there is no question that the product is legit or not. But lets say, you yourself. If you were using product A and after 2-3 weeks of steady usage, your IGF came at 600 then we can say 100% that product is legit. If it came at 800 we can say the same thing. We know that IGF-1 depending on diet, amount of exercise performed in the last 24 hours will vary 10-15%. But whether your test came at 700 or 770, or 630 makes no difference to us cause it tells the same story.

Now if you switched to brand B, and you did not change anything as far as gear etc and after 2-3 weeks of same dosage your IGF came at 375, what does that tell us? Well you are still out or normal range and high, but now 50% less than previous product. This now makes us question whether are you down 50% just because your IGF is trending down slowly as it does cause you are on NOTHING or product B is not as pure or does not contain as much as "good" HGH for your body to convert to IGF-1.

Or lets say hell you didnt want to wait 2-3 weeks for your body to convert HGH to IGF-1 and are wondering if the product you are using is legit right now. This is where serum HGH comes in. It is a very specific test and it tests for protein that is 22k daltons, the exact same weight molecule that a lab would look for during a full analysis. Normal range of serum HGH in most labs is 0.1-2.9 let say. Many studies show that a single injection of 1.5mg of HGH (4iu) should put your serum HGH way way above normal range usually 10-20.

So if you like some people inject 8-10iu and test 3 hours later as it should be done and your serum HGH comes within normal range, that pretty much 100% proves that said product you are holding in your hands is no good. Does not mean the next person or another person didnt get a good batch. Just guarantees that there is no way your serum HGH could come that low. Period. I will only speak of the positive ones as example. Osiris did 10iu of Serostim and 3 hours later his serum HGH came at 38.0. Discohornet did 10iu of Rips and did serum HGH three hours later and it came at 50.0. Do we have any question that there is HGH in there? Heck no.

One of the reasons that people in the past have not gotten testing unfortunately is lack of knowledge. Many are afraid to walk in to a doctor office or lab and ask for specific tests. People still ask to this day which lab they should do, and how many hours after injection, and this and that. Most people still dont know that you can go to a place like privatemdlabs and just order labs and keep it private.

I do believe that if you and the mods thru your own measures find a group of members that you trust to do some testing it may be a lot cheaper than $800 lab analysis. Remember that lab analysis is as good as the time you tested it. If the source switches products or product goes bad, we cant rely on a lab analysis that was done months ago. Even though i work with certain sponsors here on this site, i was one of the first ones to blow the whistle on the Kigs. And the same sponsor i am affiliated with carries Kigs. I am currently on the end of week 2 of the IP Grey tops and will test monday and will post results with a mods approval. And if they are bad, it is what it is and again the same sponsor i am affiliated with carries IP Greys. That should prove that i am not trying to boost any one's sale. I just like members that work hard for their money to make sure they are getting legit shit. I have never seen an industry anywhere that screws their customers over and over like the bodybuilding industry.
 
As far as timing goes so everyone is clear. It is very well documented that HGH given SQ peaks at 4 hours after SQ injection. Given IM it peaks at 3-3.5 hours. I have posted the graph for Merck (Saizen) after a single 1.67mg injection Sub Q. The graph has two lines one that peaks slightly later which is standard needle SQ and the one that peaks a little earlier and that is their "needle-less" device. Bottom line is that whether you tested at 3 or 4 hours the numbers will be only different by 1 or 2 points which when you are so far out of the range does not matter. Whether your serum HGH came at 18 or 20 none of us would care as long as it is way out of the normal range.
 

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alpha, my dog thanks you for sparing me the time it would have taken to write something similar. Now we can just go to the park.
 
And did we as a Community of 75,ooo just figure this out? a month ago?


I myself even missed it for years because for as long as I could remember, only IGF-1 tests were talked about. I believe this was because of a misconception. If you went to a doctor and said you think you have low or high GH levels, they would test for IGF-1. They would test for IGF-1 because IGF-1 stays elevated for a long time after high levels of Growth Hormone. Naturally released GH from the brain, even if it's staggeringly high, will only peak out for a few minutes and then go down.

So, we as a community mistakenly adopted a belief about GH testing that comes from the medical communities testing of a normal person's natural GH release.


But even if I had known about this testing procedure I probably would not have done it if I didn't have access to an outside company with convenient testing facilities and low prices, and I didn't have to make an appointment with my doctor. I walked into Walmart, bought some deodorant, got my blood drawn and then came home. 24 hours later I got my results.
 
And did we as a Community of 75,ooo just figure this out? a month ago?


Discohornet is 100% right, because in most literature testing for GH serum level is considered "unreliable" simply because when testing natural GH, we do not know when the GH pulse occurs. And when it happens it can be minutes. So most of the time if you take someone off the street that is not doing exogenous GH and just test their serum GH, it will come back as 0.1 which is pretty much nothing. It is completely different in case when you basically control the "pulse" which is the self administered injection. Hope that makes sense.
 
Raj,

I will be the first to respond here. And this is straight medical facts which is irrelevant of what brand of HGH we use. In the medical field we use HGH for a few reasons main ones being Short Stature, Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency and Turner Syndrome along with a few other ones but those three are the main ones. Now you have to realize that since we prescribe pharm grade HGH the question is never whether the HGH is real or not. That does not even enter a practitioners mind. So 95% testing we do is IGF. Kids and adults that are put on HGH are started at a said dosage such as 0.3 to 0.7mg/kg per week divided in seven equal doses. We always start on the low end and at the 30 day mark check IGF level to see how the patient's body is responding to that HGH and adjust dosage up and down from there.

For this purpose all we care about is IGF-1 numbers. That is all. Obviously it is dose related and the higher the dose the higher the IGF-1 but one kid may have a higher efficiency due to several factors to convert those HGH to IGF-1. We never test serum HGH on most of these patients because it does not tell us anything.

About the only time we actually test serum HGH is when we are actually trying to determine if a "natural" patient whether a kid or adult is growth hormone deficient and where the possible cause of problem lies within the endocrine system. So we will do a Growth Hormone stimulation test to see if the persons body itself has the capability to produce growth hormone when stimulated. We of course also test the IGF-1 but it gives us a better combined answer.

In the case of using non-pharm grade HGH when the concern always is whether it is legit changes things completely. Now IGF-1 still can be used and when the numbers are out of the ball park then there is no question that the product is legit or not. But lets say, you yourself. If you were using product A and after 2-3 weeks of steady usage, your IGF came at 600 then we can say 100% that product is legit. If it came at 800 we can say the same thing. We know that IGF-1 depending on diet, amount of exercise performed in the last 24 hours will vary 10-15%. But whether your test came at 700 or 770, or 630 makes no difference to us cause it tells the same story.

Now if you switched to brand B, and you did not change anything as far as gear etc and after 2-3 weeks of same dosage your IGF came at 375, what does that tell us? Well you are still out or normal range and high, but now 50% less than previous product. This now makes us question whether are you down 50% just because your IGF is trending down slowly as it does cause you are on NOTHING or product B is not as pure or does not contain as much as "good" HGH for your body to convert to IGF-1.

Or lets say hell you didnt want to wait 2-3 weeks for your body to convert HGH to IGF-1 and are wondering if the product you are using is legit right now. This is where serum HGH comes in. It is a very specific test and it tests for protein that is 22k daltons, the exact same weight molecule that a lab would look for during a full analysis. Normal range of serum HGH in most labs is 0.1-2.9 let say. Many studies show that a single injection of 1.5mg of HGH (4iu) should put your serum HGH way way above normal range usually 10-20.

So if you like some people inject 8-10iu and test 3 hours later as it should be done and your serum HGH comes within normal range, that pretty much 100% proves that said product you are holding in your hands is no good. Does not mean the next person or another person didnt get a good batch. Just guarantees that there is no way your serum HGH could come that low. Period. I will only speak of the positive ones as example. Osiris did 10iu of Serostim and 3 hours later his serum HGH came at 38.0. Discohornet did 10iu of Rips and did serum HGH three hours later and it came at 50.0. Do we have any question that there is HGH in there? Heck no.

One of the reasons that people in the past have not gotten testing unfortunately is lack of knowledge. Many are afraid to walk in to a doctor office or lab and ask for specific tests. People still ask to this day which lab they should do, and how many hours after injection, and this and that. Most people still dont know that you can go to a place like privatemdlabs and just order labs and keep it private.

I do believe that if you and the mods thru your own measures find a group of members that you trust to do some testing it may be a lot cheaper than $800 lab analysis. Remember that lab analysis is as good as the time you tested it. If the source switches products or product goes bad, we cant rely on a lab analysis that was done months ago. Even though i work with certain sponsors here on this site, i was one of the first ones to blow the whistle on the Kigs. And the same sponsor i am affiliated with carries Kigs. I am currently on the end of week 2 of the IP Grey tops and will test monday and will post results with a mods approval. And if they are bad, it is what it is and again the same sponsor i am affiliated with carries IP Greys. That should prove that i am not trying to boost any one's sale. I just like members that work hard for their money to make sure they are getting legit shit. I have never seen an industry anywhere that screws their customers over and over like the bodybuilding industry.


Thank you Alpha.

From our perspective as a sponsor, we hardly understand what you have written and its not because you are not articulate or we lack all that much intelligence. But you really do have to be deeply involved in the medical field to even begin to grasp much of what you are eluding to. And a lot of damage can be done by people who do not have the knowledge or experience or tactfullness when calling out a sponsor.

We truly believe therefore that testing should be done by mods who are using a state of the art testing site.

We feel the best approach is to have a few trusted mods who can mystery shop and procure the product from us or any other sponsor on this board first. And then it should be agreed amongst sponsors that we reimburse the mods for any costs associated with the purchase or testing of the product.

You have to beable to get our product in a secure and controlled manner and it has to be without our knowledge.

Having said that, it has to be done fairly and no pre biases about sponsors products should be used unless a pattern of abuse is suspected. But everyone of us potentially has a problem product on our shelves. That we are not aware of.

Sponsors all should know we are liable if we are selling something that is not what we have claimed it to be. if its so big we can not overcome it, then shame on us.

None of us can possibly know how everything would test out. But if we do not have enough confidence in our product lines to support occaissional rotated random testing well we should not be selling it.

Testing is clearly something that should be left to those few sites that can are willing and capable of not only testing using state of the art techniques, but who will also be willing to summarize and clarify the results if need be in a manner that leaves little doubt in anyones mind of the accuaracy of the results.

While it was somewhat painful to watch the discources that manifested after the first set of testing because of everyones, biases, insecurities, or egos, in hindsight it appears to have been a good thing. The testing that is.

Nobody really knows how to do this very well, and most of us sponsors probably had no idea how to effectively respond to results that were not favorable. But I think we are all learning that we have a reponsability to allow testing of our products today. And that we need to a have contiguency plan in the event we are found to have a product that was not what we claimed it to be when we sold it.

We assume everyone else whos planning on being around a long time also has given this some thought to where they are potentially liable.

But never expect much more than an apology and an attempt to square things from a source like us, because you would be revealing how little you know about the realities of our side of the business.

But we always willing to admit, we are not perfect, the product is not perfect. but we would be remiss if we did not remind everyone: that neither is anyone else or elses who sells on this board.

We know the business, and you rarely will see us attacking anyone whos trying to make it in the business. There are some great guys with great products on this board all who want to serve you.

Theres absolutely no reason you can not get your needs met from anyone of us.

Just one sponsors perspective we admit.

IPGEAR
 
IPGEAR,

I understand that the science behind it is complex but doesnt mean it shouldnt be used. You and i may not know exactly how our computer works and why when you press a certain key on the keyboard that letter shows up on the monitor etc. But we use it anyways. Sometimes it is much better to simplify things. The more mystery you take out of something the better. It is actually quite simple, take said HGH, inject 5-10iu single injection, wait three hours and have blood drawn. If your levels are between 0.1-2.0 then your HGH is no good if it is out of range then you are golden. It is not voodoo. This is based on pure medical facts. I only went into details because Raj wanted very specific information and facts. Trust me i could have written another three pages but figured i stopped there :)

I disagree with you that only a few people should do these testing. No matter what topic you choose the more you try to censor it is just going to blow up in your face later. Let's just say i am a bad guy with bad intentions and so are the next 5 guys that also want to bad mouth an x brand but posting bogus results. What happens when the next 95 guys that are honest and wand the best for the rest of the members post real results and put up their numbers which show great results? Would you believe the 95 or the 5 bad apples? This is the reasoning that these tests should be done in the masses. The more samples you have it weeds out the outliers. This is a statistical fact.
 
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And a lot of damage can be done by people who do not have the knowledge or experience or tactfullness when calling out a sponsor.

This right here is what you should be concerned about. Gh serum tests are very reliable. It's a simple test detecting GH in the serum of the blood. Nothing gets simpler than that.

What will get complicated is if hundreds of people from all over, some honest, some intelligent, some all of the above and some none of the above, going bonkers by getting this test done and then splattering it all over the internet without any forethought as to their consequences.

We have no way of knowing if they really did get it tested in the right time period, we have no way if they just photoshoped a high number to boost the sales of one or more sponsors, OR vice versa, if they posted manipulated results that show low numbers in order to try and ruin someone else's reputation or get free product.

The error in this situation will not be in the results of a legitimately tested subject, it will be in the gross amount of misconduct that can arise from such a test that is so easily skewed or fabricated.

I posted my serum GH test from riptropin. Looking back now I wish I hadn't, and I most certainly shouldn't have without a mod's approval. The only reason I felt comfortable doing so is because we have established that Riptropins are very good GH based on the tests already done. I felt that I was only reiterating what is now known as fact about the Rips.

I would be glad to go back and delete those posts and if the mods need to I can certainly do anything to help with that.

------------------------------------------------------------------

With all that said, please know this now means there will be a lot of people who will get their serum tested and will never share it with any board. Instead they will find out what they are getting or not getting, and they will choose to purchase only GH that brings about a high serum level. This will mean that a lot of providers and manufacturers of GH will need to step up their quality control, if long term preservation of returning customers is in their best interest.

In other words, with utmost respect to you and your organization, I will tell you this. The days of letting product leave your doors without being batch tested will soon be over. It sucks, but this kind of stuff costs way too much money for us to just sit on our hands and hope it's real. And when I say batch tested, I mean that it will probably become essential to have one vial of every kit or batch be pulled and tested to validate its legitimacy. Gone are the days of just trusting the manufacturer, or if you are the manufacturer, trusting your employees who were responsible for quality control.


------------------------------------------------------------------

To the board members who are going to disregard the etiquette and go about acting childishly and speaking out of turn, contacting providers without going through the proper channels, posting results without handing them over to mods. I will have no sympathy for you, based on the fact you're not handling this information in a mature and adult fashion. There are rules to follow when dealing with things on boards like this. I don't find it ironic though, that these very people I have in mind will not have even bothered reading through this entire post, so they most likely won't even read this.
 
Q

So it seems timing is much more critical with HGH serum?

What if a member takes 5iu daily, for many weeks or months at bed time. Then goes in to test hgh serum level the next afternoon? Safe to say its incorrect and money wasted? Although Usuing a good amount of hgh the reading may be very low?

Now with the IGF levels. say a member has been using 5iu for many weeks or even many months. He takes it the same way, the night before.
SAame situation, goes in the next afternoon for IGF levels. This is a good way and nymbers should be high?

I may try a few experiments with this myself if we can get all the facts sorted out. I still have a Vial of Pharmacy Omnitrope, as well as few other very popular brands.
 
There is also another factor which deserves mentioning. What about serum testing and 192aa Gh? Alpha mentioned this would not show on a serum test. Is this in fact true?

Ak
 
What will get complicated is if hundreds of people from all over, some honest, some intelligent, some all of the above and some none of the above, going bonkers by getting this test done and then splattering it all over the internet without any forethought as to their consequences.

We have no way of knowing if they really did get it tested in the right time period, we have no way if they just photoshoped a high number to boost the sales of one or more sponsors, OR vice versa, if they posted manipulated results that show low numbers in order to try and ruin someone else's reputation or get free product.

The error in this situation will not be in the results of a legitimately tested subject, it will be in the gross amount of misconduct that can arise from such a test that is so easily skewed or fabricated.

I agree with the Above 100%.
I've done my best to try to explain it. Like anything if its going to be done
and carry any weight we need to make sure we know exactly what we are talking about and its needs to be people we know and trust.

I've seen many using this already and then demanding re-sends or making threats claims etc. Its un-fare to everyone unless we know for certain its done correct. Very hard to do that unless you are the person or were watching the person. Otherwise it comes down to trusting one another which we all know the honor system does not normally work the best. Especially when there is major Money involved from all different directions. Member's spending it, sponsors making it etc etc.

In the end we should all be on the same team and try to learn and help each other.
Even if we can only determine it for a a method ANY member could use himself and have a good idea it would be helpful to us To learn this I would think.
 
So it seems timing is much more critical with HGH serum?

What if a member takes 5iu daily, for many weeks or months at bed time. Then goes in to test hgh serum level the next afternoon? Safe to say its incorrect and money wasted? Although Usuing a good amount of hgh the reading may be very low?

Now with the IGF levels. say a member has been using 5iu for many weeks or even many months. He takes it the same way, the night before.
SAame situation, goes in the next afternoon for IGF levels. This is a good way and nymbers should be high?

I may try a few experiments with this myself if we can get all the facts sorted out. I still have a Vial of Pharmacy Omnitrope, as well as few other very popular brands.



You are 100% correct. Timing is important for doing serum HGH but not IGF. If you have been taking legit HGH for weeks and lets say your IGF is 600 and you stop completely today it takes almost a week or two for your IGF levels to come all the way back to normal so it is not affected by matter of hours and when last you injected IGF. And that is the major reason we use this test in the medical field since it is more reliable since timing is not an issue but also we are not worried about fake HGH either.

If you look at the graph i posted, serum HGH peaks between 3-4 hours, but even 10 hours after injection serum levels are at 10 which is way way above normal range. Of course doing the blood test at 12 hours post injection is not the best to find what your peak serum HGH is and may throw you off to think your HGH is not as potent as it really is but you can tell that there is definitely HGH in your vial since most normal levels max at 2.5.
 
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I say let everyone test and post their results. The problem with the GH testing that PM did, is that it is already outdated! However, if you had a steady flow of users doing the rather inexpensive test, on a consistent basis, your going to be able to gauge trends.

I also still don't get the fact, that PM allows everyone to talk about their AAS use or GH use. For example, I have seen threads about someone using a particular brand of Anadrol and the results not being very good, and other users saying that Anapolan is the only brand to use. However, if you post an attachment supporting your results, your now considered to be a fraud, unless your a 'Core' guy. that can be trusted. :rolleyes:

People form their own opinions about the members and the information they post.
 
We support testing but little in this thread here leads us to believe that it should be done by anyone but people who know what they are doing and not just say it. In addition, we get to see the accusers, we know the damage thats done from people who act like they know and clearly do not.

We are part of the team, we want what you want.

And if you really knew what the legit complaint rate from cutomers for us and probably most of the other sponsors on this board is, you might understand why we are not really afraid of legit testing.

Its just a sponsors perspective, and we share it as only that.

Its not meant to take awy from anyone elses perspective on testing.

IPGEAR
 
Can anyone besides Alpha confirm its correct?
Not that I do not believe the information, I think its great.
But Surely more then 1 or two people would know this?

Could we not get it confirmed through the medical field
(the information) By sending an email or inquiry to if this information is 100% accurate and correct?
Its a simple question correct, nothing illegal about that.

I guess this would all be learned in school? Maybe we could write up something somewhat professional looking and send it to a few major university's?

I know Alpha is smart guy! But rite now we are just a bunch of guys on the forum using Google searches. (im guessing the above graph came from google, not chart or test done by us etc.

I guess Im wanting to further Validate" That the information is correct for
Users of HGH (prescription or Non prescription).

At the same time I would think that the pharmacy sample would tell us?

Once we confirm and nobody can debate that the method-timing and results are correct.
We then just have to move to the next thing which is making sure its done by a GROUP of some of the forums most trusted members.
Like Disco said it can not be one guy here- one guys there- guys we never know or have seen. Guys that post three times a year.

I want to see core guys do this. Guys Like Jethro Tull, The Brick, OJS
Concreteguy, LEX, Knucklehead,Baldnazi,Queefer and the list goes On(sorry to leave anyone out..just a few that first pop into mind) there are many core guys that have 5-even 10 years of earned trust in here.
 
I say let everyone test and post their results. The problem with the GH testing that PM did, is that it is already outdated! However, if you had a steady flow of users doing the rather inexpensive test, on a consistent basis, your going to be able to gauge trends.

I also still don't get the fact, that PM allows everyone to talk about their AAS use or GH use. For example, I have seen threads about someone using a particular brand of Anadrol and the results not being very good, and other users saying that Anapolan is the only brand to use. However, if you post an attachment supporting your results, your now considered to be a fraud, unless your a 'Core' guy. that can be trusted. :rolleyes:

People form their own opinions about the members and the information they post.

I guess that would be you referring to me. eye roll lol
See the Post I quoted above from discohornet. Ive explained it many times.
User feedback can certainly go in the sponsor threads.

But these "call outs" and guys I do not know- such as yourself for example-
Im not going to allow it. Ive been alerted already from two guys I know that
are the best of the best that have been bombed latley with guys trying to use this for free prodycts, replacements , refunds etc.

Its not a free for all here. We have rule in place and there for good reason.
 
Can anyone besides Alpha confirm its correct?
Not that I do not believe the information, I think its great.
But Surely more then 1 or two people would know this?

Could we not get it confirmed through the medical field
(the information) By sending an email or inquiry to if this information is 100% accurate and correct?
Its a simple question correct, nothing illegal about that.

I guess this would all be learned in school? Maybe we could write up something somewhat professional looking and send it to a few major university's?

I know Alpha is smart guy! But rite now we are just a bunch of guys on the forum using Google searches. (im guessing the above graph came from google, not chart or test done by us etc.

I guess Im wanting to further Validate" That the information is correct for
Users of HGH (prescription or Non prescription).

At the same time I would think that the pharmacy sample would tell us?

Once we confirm and nobody can debate that the method-timing and results are correct.
We then just have to move to the next thing which is making sure its done by a GROUP of some of the forums most trusted members.
Like Disco said it can not be one guy here- one guys there- guys we never know or have seen. Guys that post three times a year.

I want to see core guys do this. Guys Like Jethro Tull, The Brick, OJS
Concreteguy, LEX, Knucklehead,Baldnazi,Queefer and the list goes On(sorry to leave anyone out..just a few that first pop into mind) there are many core guys that have 5-even 10 years of earned trust in here.


Raj,

The image didnt come from google. It came from a study on Saizen (Merck's GH) and its comparison from needle and their needle less device. It is as good as gold. If you want me to forward you a copy of the study i can. Please do not take this wrong but this is like asking someone that changes spark plugs everyday, to write a paper to a tech school on proper spark plug change procedure. I do this every single day.

You are more than welcome to search pubmed which is the largest collection of medical studies, and it is very well accepted that serum GH from exogenous source peaks at 3-4 hours post injection. Anything i can do to help just let me know. Feel free to PM me.
 
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This right here is what you should be concerned about. Gh serum tests are very reliable. It's a simple test detecting GH in the serum of the blood. Nothing gets simpler than that.

What will get complicated is if hundreds of people from all over, some honest, some intelligent, some all of the above and some none of the above, going bonkers by getting this test done and then splattering it all over the internet without any forethought as to their consequences.

We have no way of knowing if they really did get it tested in the right time period, we have no way if they just photoshoped a high number to boost the sales of one or more sponsors, OR vice versa, if they posted manipulated results that show low numbers in order to try and ruin someone else's reputation or get free product.

The error in this situation will not be in the results of a legitimately tested subject, it will be in the gross amount of misconduct that can arise from such a test that is so easily skewed or fabricated.

I posted my serum GH test from riptropin. Looking back now I wish I hadn't, and I most certainly shouldn't have without a mod's approval. The only reason I felt comfortable doing so is because we have established that Riptropins are very good GH based on the tests already done. I felt that I was only reiterating what is now known as fact about the Rips.

I would be glad to go back and delete those posts and if the mods need to I can certainly do anything to help with that.

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With all that said, please know this now means there will be a lot of people who will get their serum tested and will never share it with any board. Instead they will find out what they are getting or not getting, and they will choose to purchase only GH that brings about a high serum level. This will mean that a lot of providers and manufacturers of GH will need to step up their quality control, if long term preservation of returning customers is in their best interest.

In other words, with utmost respect to you and your organization, I will tell you this. The days of letting product leave your doors without being batch tested will soon be over. It sucks, but this kind of stuff costs way too much money for us to just sit on our hands and hope it's real. And when I say batch tested, I mean that it will probably become essential to have one vial of every kit or batch be pulled and tested to validate its legitimacy. Gone are the days of just trusting the manufacturer, or if you are the manufacturer, trusting your employees who were responsible for quality control.


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To the board members who are going to disregard the etiquette and go about acting childishly and speaking out of turn, contacting providers without going through the proper channels, posting results without handing them over to mods. I will have no sympathy for you, based on the fact you're not handling this information in a mature and adult fashion. There are rules to follow when dealing with things on boards like this. I don't find it ironic though, that these very people I have in mind will not have even bothered reading through this entire post, so they most likely won't even read this.

I have had a few bad results and have the full test with identifying information to the mods for approval before posting. There is a right way and wrong to do things.

Now, I am just trying to figure out if I am a core member or a,lump lump:)

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
 

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