why do we take igf-1 lr3 after workouts?

[E-Volve]

Curious why its after and not before and if it really makes any difference

 

[Dicksneeze]

This was posted over on another thread.

Here is the first part.. if you need more i can continue. I have read a few different posts from Dat and re wrote some of it to make sense in my head and to help keep it more simple and summarised multiple threads..

----------

First of all, our aim is to increase anabolism right.. That’s why we want IGF-1, anabolism is all about 3 main things;

1. increasing protein synthesis
2. differentiation
3. proliferation

We get to a point with protein synthesis where our body cant do any more, why ? Because we have run out of ribosomes manufacturing plants to make more protein. Once they are maxed out we need more. The ‘plant’ is DNA, we need our body to create more manufacturing plans to create more ribosomes where the proteins can actually be made. Without these additional “DNA plants” once you max out you existing ones you no longer have additional protein synthesis thus anabolism. Things like GH / Mod GRF / GHRP / Test increase this potential new plants.

IGF-1 has a role, differentiation, which means it moving these plants into place. But we need more to be created first, and that is called proliferation.
It is the special IGF-1 called IGF-1EC (or Mechano Growth Factor) which is proliferative, NOT IGF-LR3 or DES. Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP and pulsed GH can increase MGF (MGF is made and used in muscle cells... it is not made in the liver and sent out systemically in blood). GH elevations can also increase MGF BUT GH elevations also increase IGF-1 which can interfere with MGF.

It is more difficult to keep proliferation going then it is to bring about differentiation because differentiation always cuts short proliferation as soon as it is introduced. And that’s why when you keep using LR3 and DES at the WRONG TIME, you are stopping proliferation.

So building more DNA plants and donating them to muscle cells is hugely important. Once that new DNA is in place you can keep doing what you usually do to keep protein synthesis going in all the old and now new DNA plants.

Why is MGF-proliferation important and why do we need to make sure we are not taking anything to blunt its release. MGF occurs post workout and over the next 48 hours and then IGF-1 takes those proliferated nuclei and fuses them into muscle cells and then IGF-1, GH pulses and natural testosterone, even insulin contributes to increasing the protein synthesis which comes from the new plants.

-------------

For those non medically minded and just want cliff notes..

How NOT to use IGF-LR3
lipolysis? IGF-1 doesn't do that in people who aren't GH deficient. It only feels that way due to the glucose disposal

Increased muscle growth "proliferation"
Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRPs (GH in general) increase IGF-1 (especially locally in muscle tissue). Local/muscle IGF-1 trumps systemic IGF-1. IGF-1 LR3 is "systemic" and will not benefit muscle much.

]Pre WO ? you will get better pumps yes, but it will interfere with the MGF your body will produce post work out due to its long half life. DES half life is shorter thus you can get the better pumps benefit and not interfere with MGF (when using Pre WO).

]Post WO ? WORST time to do it, not only did you not get the "pumps" benefit, It will interfere with the MGF your body will produce post work out.


What about the vascular effect and pump ? Yes you will get it but it will interfere with you natural MGF Post WO

How to use IGF-LR3
Get some to work in the muscle group your injecting into
micro-dose (3-5) Intra-muscular

At least 8 hours after workout, if working out early in the morning then at night, if training at night then following morning

A cycle around 4 weeks should be done AFTER you have created some new DNA plants and been proliferating (Using MGF) so you have the ability to do more protein synthesis than your previous maxed out 'plants' could offer.

Which IGF-1 helps muscle? Only MGF (IGF1-Ec) will interfere with muscle IGF-1 receptors.

So Summary
IGF-1 LR3 or IGF-1 DES:

1. Do NOT increase cell proliferation (they act as a differentiator)
2. Will interfere with endogenous post-workout MGF (cell proliferator) if administered immediately before or after a workout
3. Can inhibit lipolysis in some people
4. Can cause hypoglycemia by binding to insulin receptors
5. Are completely different than endogenous, locally created autocrine/paracrine IGF-1, which is produced by GHRP/Mod GRF 1-29
6. Can aid in healing injured tissue if micro-dosed local to injury ("trauma")

 

[wumba]

Seems a little off. By that token, just taking LR3 without MGF is made out to be completely pointless.

 

[Dicksneeze]

No, taking LR3 without MGF is less effective, not pointless.

 

[E-Volve]

ok so now he is saying with igf-1 LR3 we should wait 8 hours after working out to inject it? I thought it was suppose to be done within an hour of working out. so much different info posted out here makes it confusing

 

[Dicksneeze]

Test it yourself. I'm running it 8 hours post work-out on my honey badger right meow. I would have to re-order my supply to keep that test going as he has about 2 injections left. Unfortunately I don't have the money for that and frankly, it's just not worth it right now. Haven't seen enough of a result from Ergo's LR3 or DES to warrant paying their price.

 

[E-Volve]

Test it yourself. I'm running it 8 hours post work-out on my honey badger right meow. I would have to re-order my supply to keep that test going as he has about 2 injections left. Unfortunately I don't have the money for that and frankly, it's just not worth it right now. Haven't seen enough of a result from Ergo's LR3 or DES to warrant paying their price.

yeah Ive seen some weird pricing with the DES. I don't get it.
Ive seen some cost about as much as a pizza and others cost as much as a new pair of boots. Why such a price difference, I haven't figured it out yet

 

[DrNat]

ok so now he is saying with igf-1 LR3 we should wait 8 hours after working out to inject it? I thought it was suppose to be done within an hour of working out. so much different info posted out here makes it confusing

People thought it was within the hour because someone must have said that originally and everyone just follow it without questioning it and looking at the science.

What seems off with the explanation ?

You dont have to use MGF and LR3, they just enhance the bodies natural proliferation and differentiation processes. If i had to pick one id use MGF, if you had the money and wanted to try LR3 for fun then do it after a cycle of MGF or if not using MGF just do it 8 hours away from GHRP/GHRH and workout.

 

[stylus]

yeah Ive seen some weird pricing with the DES. I don't get it.
Ive seen some cost about as much as a pizza and others cost as much as a new pair of boots. Why such a price difference, I haven't figured it out yet

One brand of IGF-Des is USA 100% raw Domestic, with high purity levels, instead of buffering agents... Cheaper versions of IGF are coming from Asia... Its that simple... It would be like going to Mexico to buy prescription meds... way cheaper then meds in the US. You get what you pay for.. Mexico is obviously a gamble as well.

In other cases, certain companies just decided to charge an arm and a leg!!! These boards are good for info on who has QC products and who has less than QC products.

 

[E-Volve]

People thought it was within the hour because someone must have said that originally and everyone just follow it without questioning it and looking at the science.

What seems off with the explanation ?

You dont have to use MGF and LR3, they just enhance the bodies natural proliferation and differentiation processes. If i had to pick one id use MGF, if you had the money and wanted to try LR3 for fun then do it after a cycle of MGF or if not using MGF just do it 8 hours away from GHRP/GHRH and workout.

so I cant use the MGF and the igf-1 lr3 during the same Peptide cycle?
What type of MGF do you suggest?

 

[magnus82]

I have had the best results using des preworkout, mgf post, and lr3 the following morning.

 

[DrNat]

I have had the best results using des preworkout, mgf post, and lr3 the following morning.

^ Perfect.
DES 5-10mins before sb
MGF 4hrs + 8hrs Post
LR3 next morning or 8 hours most

Do no do LR3 and MGF both together at 8 hours.

You may be better of doing 4 weeks of MGF and then stop it and do 2 weeks of Lr3 for example. Im doing Lr3 after my 4 week MGF.. Lost a lot of strength in chest, not sure if it was due to not resting enough, im doing chest now so ill soon know.

 

[E-Volve]

^ Perfect.
DES 5-10mins before sb
MGF 4hrs + 8hrs Post
LR3 next morning or 8 hours most

Do no do LR3 and MGF both together at 8 hours.

You may be better of doing 4 weeks of MGF and then stop it and do 2 weeks of Lr3 for example. Im doing Lr3 after my 4 week MGF.. Lost a lot of strength in chest, not sure if it was due to not resting enough, im doing chest now so ill soon know.

I work out early in the morning. I get up, shower and hit the gym, so what do you suggest for the lr3 in my case?
Also you didn't mention if I should use mgf or that peg version??

 

[magnus82]

I work out early in the morning. I get up, shower and hit the gym, so what do you suggest for the lr3 in my case?
Also you didn't mention if I should use mgf or that peg version??

Take it before bed and dont use peg due to its long half life. Here is the first part.. if you need more i can continue. I have read a few different posts from Dat and re wrote some of it to make sense in my head and to help keep it more simple and summarised multiple threads..

----------

First of all, our aim is to increase anabolism right.. That’s why we want IGF-1, anabolism is all about 3 main things;

1. increasing protein synthesis
2. differentiation
3. proliferation

We get to a point with protein synthesis where our body cant do any more, why ? Because we have run out of ribosomes manufacturing plants to make more protein. Once they are maxed out we need more. The ‘plant’ is DNA, we need our body to create more manufacturing plans to create more ribosomes where the proteins can actually be made. Without these additional “DNA plants” once you max out you existing ones you no longer have additional protein synthesis thus anabolism. Things like GH / Mod GRF / GHRP / Test increase this potential new plants.

IGF-1 has a role, differentiation, which means it moving these plants into place. But we need more to be created first, and that is called proliferation.
It is the special IGF-1 called IGF-1EC (or Mechano Growth Factor) which is proliferative, NOT IGF-LR3 or DES. Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP and pulsed GH can increase MGF (MGF is made and used in muscle cells... it is not made in the liver and sent out systemically in blood). GH elevations can also increase MGF BUT GH elevations also increase IGF-1 which can interfere with MGF.

It is more difficult to keep proliferation going then it is to bring about differentiation because differentiation always cuts short proliferation as soon as it is introduced. And that’s why when you keep using LR3 and DES at the WRONG TIME, you are stopping proliferation.

So building more DNA plants and donating them to muscle cells is hugely important. Once that new DNA is in place you can keep doing what you usually do to keep protein synthesis going in all the old and now new DNA plants.

Why is MGF-proliferation important and why do we need to make sure we are not taking anything to blunt its release. MGF occurs post workout and over the next 48 hours and then IGF-1 takes those proliferated nuclei and fuses them into muscle cells and then IGF-1, GH pulses and natural testosterone, even insulin contributes to increasing the protein synthesis which comes from the new plants.

-------------

For those non medically minded and just want cliff notes..

How NOT to use IGF-LR3
lipolysis? IGF-1 doesn't do that in people who aren't GH deficient. It only feels that way due to the glucose disposal

Increased muscle growth "proliferation"
Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRPs (GH in general) increase IGF-1 (especially locally in muscle tissue). Local/muscle IGF-1 trumps systemic IGF-1. IGF-1 LR3 is "systemic" and will not benefit muscle much.

]Pre WO ? you will get better pumps yes, but it will interfere with the MGF your body will produce post work out due to its long half life. DES half life is shorter thus you can get the better pumps benefit and not interfere with MGF (when using Pre WO).

]Post WO ? WORST time to do it, not only did you not get the "pumps" benefit, It will interfere with the MGF your body will produce post work out.


What about the vascular effect and pump ? Yes you will get it but it will interfere with you natural MGF Post WO

How to use IGF-LR3
Get some to work in the muscle group your injecting into
micro-dose (3-5) Intra-muscular

At least 8 hours after workout, if working out early in the morning then at night, if training at night then following morning

A cycle around 4 weeks should be done AFTER you have created some new DNA plants and been proliferating (Using MGF) so you have the ability to do more protein synthesis than your previous maxed out 'plants' could offer.

Which IGF-1 helps muscle? Only MGF (IGF1-Ec) will interfere with muscle IGF-1 receptors.

So Summary
IGF-1 LR3 or IGF-1 DES:

1. Do NOT increase cell proliferation (they act as a differentiator)
2. Will interfere with endogenous post-workout MGF (cell proliferator) if administered immediately before or after a workout
3. Can inhibit lipolysis in some people
4. Can cause hypoglycemia by binding to insulin receptors
5. Are completely different than endogenous, locally created autocrine/paracrine IGF-1, which is produced by GHRP/Mod GRF 1-29
6. Can aid in healing injured tissue if micro-dosed local to injury ("trauma")

 

[DrNat]

I work out early in the morning. I get up, shower and hit the gym, so what do you suggest for the lr3 in my case?
Also you didn't mention if I should use mgf or that peg version??

Magnus posted my post for me so thanks!

Just incase i didnt explain it, if you work out in morning then do lr3 8 hours later.

I would do MGF separate cycle to LR3, thats my understanding which i explained above. Unless someone has better understanding and info as to doing both in the same cycle.. you would continually cut of MGF (non peg) proliferation which you want more than differentiation (lr3)

 

[Knight9]

DrNat..
4hrs AND 8hrs administer MGF? How much total/each time?

Is there ever a good time/reason to use peg mgf?

As I understand it...mgf must be pinned in muscles trained. Is it true its best to inject micro doses in 5-10 diff spots?

 

[DrNat]

DrNat..
4hrs AND 8hrs administer MGF? How much total/each time?

Is there ever a good time/reason to use peg mgf?

As I understand it...mgf must be pinned in muscles trained. Is it true its best to inject micro doses in 5-10 diff spots?

Peg MGF can be used when
1. You want to repair multiple areas throughout the body
2. When normal MGF is low quality. There is a MGF with 3 amino acids swaps that makes it much better than regular MGF, as good as peg-MGF would be.. ErgoPep i hope will source it. But the MGF they have now i have had good results with.
I am not sure if the dose would be the same as regular MGF

I have tried for my first cycle a total of 200mcg split in 2 over the 4 and 8 hour mark (sometimes i just do it all at the 4 hour mark if i know i cant do it at the 8 hour mark).

Now when injecting it in the area, you need to be IM so use 29g 1/2" if your lean.

You will want to micro dose it, so if using 100mcg for example do 25mcg in 4 spots, if the test subject has chest you are working on, it would be 25mcg in pec major and minor for both sides. If doing 200mcg all at once, then 50mcg in each site.

For the test subject i am using it on, i do training 2x a week for chest and do 200mch each time.

Each cycle i will work up to 500mcg to see if any better.

 

[Knight9]

Thanks.
Do you use the same slin pin for all 4 IM injects?

If you are using mgf only for 4weeks wouldnt it be acceptable to use PEG?(IF you plan to use IGF-LR3 only after those 4weeks?)

 

[DrNat]

Thanks.
Do you use the same slin pin for all 4 IM injects?

If you are using mgf only for 4weeks wouldnt it be acceptable to use PEG?(IF you plan to use IGF-LR3 only after those 4weeks?)

Yes same 0.5ml 29g 1/2" is used for all 4 IM injections

I use the same 3ml 27g 5/16" like 20x SubQ on patients (not peptides), other medicine... its fine. It gets blunt after 3-8 but if you have good technique you dont feel it.

What is your reasoning for using PEG when comparing to a certain timeframe (in this case only 4 weeks?) The MGF works fine, if you were not getting results even with higher dose, sure try the PEG.

And what would the LR3 being used after the 4 weeks have anything to do with which MGF you used? Can you reframe the question ?

 

[Knight9]

Yes same 0.5ml 29g 1/2" is used for all 4 IM injections

I use the same 3ml 27g 5/16" like 20x SubQ on patients (not peptides), other medicine... its fine. It gets blunt after 3-8 but if you have good technique you dont feel it.

What is your reasoning for using PEG when comparing to a certain timeframe (in this case only 4 weeks?) The MGF works fine, if you were not getting results even with higher dose, sure try the PEG.

And what would the LR3 being used after the 4 weeks have anything to do with which MGF you used? Can you reframe the question ?

Well, MGF doesnt stick around long at all..
So I figured it would be active in the body longer, perhaps built to a higher level and less injections.

Not sure if peg is more systemic than regular mgf or not.

Also the reason to mention no igf...is that peg would always be active and igf would not be shutting it off/negating mgfs action.