Humalog Pre-workout

[abbot138]

Hey all, just looking for approval on my protocol, couple key components in particular. Ive used Humalog before but always PWO. I want to switch to Pre, but I cant train until about 730/8, so it has to be Humalog so its out of my system before bed. I have combined aspects of Mutant's and Mike Arnold's protocols. HGH as well as Branched Chain Cyclic Dextrins or Vitargo are not currently in the budget.

7:15 - 4ius Humalog (will slowly be ramping this up to 10 and stopping there)
7:30 - 20g Hydrolyzed Whey, 20g Dextrose, 4g Leucine, 5g Creapure, 2g Beta Alanine
7:45 - Begin training
Intra shake - 20g Hydro Whey, 20g Dextrose, 2 grams beta alanine
9:30ish - conclude training
10:45 - Normal pro/carb meal (Approx 50 pro, 50 carb, minimal fat)
12:30 - Bed

My questions:
I know dextrose is something of a cheap carb source, but I saw Mutant mention hes had people sub it for Low DE Malto and had success. Will I be alright with using it pre and intra?

Am I allowing enough time after shooting before bed to be "in the clear."

Glucose tabs and gatorade/juice will always be kept nearby for hypo.

Thanks for anyone who reads or takes time to reply.

 

[Growman]

A lot of guys dont really like giving advice on slin because it is so dangerous if not used properly. However if you know what you are doing it can be relatively safe as long as all precautions are taken. I am in no way a slin expert, but have used Humilin R several times with pretty good results. So take what I say as not coming from a complete expert, and also someone who has never used Log, but i do know a little bit.

I think you will be fine with Dextrose if you really cant afford HBCD, it will keep you from going hypo but its just not as good of a carb source for training purposes but it should help control your blood sugar just fine. Based on how long Log is in your system you should be fine to go to bed at that time.

My only suggestion would be to make sure you have a solid containing carbs no more than an hour to an hour and a half before taking the Log. You dont want to be behind the 8 ball so to speak, if your last carb meal was 4 hours prior to taking the shot you could have problems as your blood sugar will already be low. Also with the fast onset of Log I would start sipping the first shake right after your shot. I would follow Mike Arnolds original protocol (the one based on Log, not Humilin R) to the T as far as the timing and amount of carbs is concerned. I would take the shakes at the exact timing that he suggests, even if you dont put all those extra things in it i would follow the timing and amount of carbs exactly just to be safe.

Then I would suggest you save up and get an all in one like Intra MD, it has the best carb source and EAA's. You can just add creapure and you are good to go. Then you just make one big shake and drink it accordingly.

Hope this helps...

 

[abbot138]

A lot of guys dont really like giving advice on slin because it is so dangerous if not used properly. However if you know what you are doing it can be relatively safe as long as all precautions are taken. I am in no way a slin expert, but have used Humilin R several times with pretty good results. So take what I say as not coming from a complete expert, and also someone who has never used Log, but i do know a little bit.

I think you will be fine with Dextrose if you really cant afford HBCD, it will keep you from going hypo but its just not as good of a carb source for training purposes but it should help control your blood sugar just fine. Based on how long Log is in your system you should be fine to go to bed at that time.

My only suggestion would be to make sure you have a solid containing carbs no more than an hour to an hour and a half before taking the Log. You dont want to be behind the 8 ball so to speak, if your last carb meal was 4 hours prior to taking the shot you could have problems as your blood sugar will already be low. Also with the fast onset of Log I would start sipping the first shake right after your shot. I would follow Mike Arnolds original protocol (the one based on Log, not Humilin R) to the T as far as the timing and amount of carbs is concerned. I would take the shakes at the exact timing that he suggests, even if you dont put all those extra things in it i would follow the timing and amount of carbs exactly just to be safe.

Then I would suggest you save up and get an all in one like Intra MD, it has the best carb source and EAA's. You can just add creapure and you are good to go. Then you just make one big shake and drink it accordingly.

Hope this helps...

Yeah I know not many people care to chime in on it, figured Id take a chance, lol. I was going to post in the Insulin Questions thread in the Peptide room and just ask Mike himself but I know he gets bombarded with questions. The sleep thing was my big sticking point, it scares the shit out of me, everyone says 5 hrs is sufficient but would be hard for me to have piece of mind without slamming a bunch of unnecessary carbs. Intra MD is Meadow's drink right? I will check it out, big fan of all things JM. I know the dextrose isnt ideal. Will keep looking around for other potential carb sources. You have any other suggestions for some slightly less expensive High Molecular Weight carbs? I know Mike mentioned there are several out there, all I can ever find are HBCD and Vitargo.

I would absolutely be well fed before shooting.

 

[nothuman]

Hey all, just looking for approval on my protocol, couple key components in particular. Ive used Humalog before but always PWO. I want to switch to Pre, but I cant train until about 730/8, so it has to be Humalog so its out of my system before bed. I have combined aspects of Mutant's and Mike Arnold's protocols. HGH as well as Branched Chain Cyclic Dextrins or Vitargo are not currently in the budget.

7:15 - 4ius Humalog (will slowly be ramping this up to 10 and stopping there)
7:30 - 20g Hydrolyzed Whey, 20g Dextrose, 4g Leucine, 5g Creapure, 2g Beta Alanine
7:45 - Begin training
Intra shake - 20g Hydro Whey, 20g Dextrose, 2 grams beta alanine
9:30ish - conclude training
10:45 - Normal pro/carb meal (Approx 50 pro, 50 carb, minimal fat)
12:30 - Bed

My questions:
I know dextrose is something of a cheap carb source, but I saw Mutant mention hes had people sub it for Low DE Malto and had success. Will I be alright with using it pre and intra?

Am I allowing enough time after shooting before bed to be "in the clear."

Glucose tabs and gatorade/juice will always be kept nearby for hypo.

Thanks for anyone who reads or takes time to reply.

in before Knight9 has a heart attack

 

[abbot138]

in before Knight9 has a heart attack

LOL....gad damn it. Apologies all. Dextrose out.

 

[nothuman]

LOL....gad damn it. Apologies all. Dextrose out.

jokes and carb choices aside, the timing of everything looks good to me

 

[jayl19]

Dextrose dosnt work for me at all, I use maltro dextrin now as I can't feel a difference between that an cyclin dextrin, I also use peptropro

 

[abbot138]

jokes and carb choices aside, the timing of everything looks good to me

Thank you sir.

 

[abbot138]

Dextrose dosnt work for me at all, I use maltro dextrin now as I can't feel a difference between that an cyclin dextrin, I also use peptropro

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[abbot138]

Fvck it just gonna break the bank and get some HBCD from TN....kids can reuse diapers for a month, lol, just kidding. Its not that I cant afford it, its more than Im an extremely cheap mother fvcker. LOL......Thanks all.

If anyone else has anymore thoughts on my timing and being "safe" for bed after 5hrs Id love to hear them.

 

[jamescb77]

Your nutrients are more than covered for what you are trying to do. I would use the eaas at a minimum and hbcd or karbolyn. Everything looks good though

 

[abbot138]

Your nutrients are more than covered for what you are trying to do. I would use the eaas at a minimum and hbcd or karbolyn. Everything looks good though

Thanks man. Im up in the air on the protein source. Mike says Hydrolyzed, Mutant goes EAA's, any reason you prefer the EAA's?

 

[jamescb77]

They are much cheaper and I'm not gonna say they are as good but they are a close second in my opinion

 

[abbot138]

They are much cheaper and I'm not gonna say they are as good but they are a close second in my opinion

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Thanks man. Im up in the air on the protein source. Mike says Hydrolyzed, Mutant goes EAA's, any reason you prefer the EAA's?

Each has their pros and cons. Whole, hydrolyzed proteins have more growth factors and calories, making it the better choice for growth, but it also sits heavier in the stomach during training, which can be problematic for some guys.

Everything we do should be personalized and goal-oriented. Are you trying to lose fat? What is your metabolism like? Can you tolerate heavier shakes while training, etc?

Keep in mind that any single protocol posted online is generic in nature--just a template or rough guideline that may work for you. There is no one size fits all program.

In general, I think hydrolyzed protein/EAA's, in combination with HBCD's or high molecular weight complex carbs (ex. vitargo, karbolyn) are advantageous peri-workout. However, outside of the peri-workout window, I tend to recommend whole food.

The above mentioned proteins and carbs are advantageous peri-workout for one main reason--they digest easily and quickly, supplying glucose and aminos to the muscles immediately. However, rapid absorption is not always desirable. You want to flood the muscle with nutrients during the training window and then transition over to whole food immediately afterward, as whole foods supply a more sustained release of carbs and proteins to the muscles.

There is a misconception out there, in which many BB'rs mistakenly believe that they must consume only rapidly digesting carbs and proteins while insulin is active. This is untrue. Whole-foods work very, very well with insulin. Relying on powders alone will provide inferior results.

 

[Growman]

Each has their pros and cons. Whole, hydrolyzed proteins have more growth factors and calories, making it the better choice for growth, but it also sits heavier in the stomach during training, which can be problematic for some guys.

Everything we do should be personalized and goal-oriented. Are you trying to lose fat? What is your metabolism like? Can you tolerate heavier shakes while training, etc?

This is the exact reason i recommend the Intra MD. I can slam a whey shake with Dextrose right after the gym and be fine, but when i tried slin I could not have a shake like that prior to the gym and then during.

I know you are trying to save money but feeling bloated while training sucks. Im not saying you gotta use intra md, but HBCD and EAA's are what digests easiest for me. And when you buy the stuff separately it cost just as much as Intra MD or close to it. If you are going up to 10iu, 3 scoops of intra would be plenty. You should just bite the bullet on the price. Just remember to dilute it enough, with 3 scoops i need 1600ml of water so you either need the big shaker or 3 different cups.

 

[Flix]

I also stick to the cheapest when possible -even going the dextrose route intra before. (No slin).

Eventually I decided to try the legit cyclic dextrin and PeptoPro intra. It was def worth it. I'll still use cheap regular whey 45min before the workout but not during anymore. And I don't even have a weak stomach, but the better products seriously are better. Worth it 100%.

 

[abbot138]

Each has their pros and cons. Whole, hydrolyzed proteins have more growth factors and calories, making it the better choice for growth, but it also sits heavier in the stomach during training, which can be problematic for some guys.

Everything we do should be personalized and goal-oriented. Are you trying to lose fat? What is your metabolism like? Can you tolerate heavier shakes while training, etc?

Keep in mind that any single protocol posted online is generic in nature--just a template or rough guideline that may work for you. There is no one size fits all program.

In general, I think hydrolyzed protein/EAA's, in combination with HBCD's or high molecular weight complex carbs (ex. vitargo, karbolyn) are advantageous peri-workout. However, outside of the peri-workout window, I tend to recommend whole food.

The above mentioned proteins and carbs are advantageous peri-workout for one main reason--they digest easily and quickly, supplying glucose and aminos to the muscles immediately. However, rapid absorption is not always desirable. You want to flood the muscle with nutrients during the training window and then transition over to whole food immediately afterward, as whole foods supply a more sustained release of carbs and proteins to the muscles.

There is a misconception out there, in which many BB'rs mistakenly believe that they must consume only rapidly digesting carbs and proteins while insulin is active. This is untrue. Whole-foods work very, very well with insulin. Relying on powders alone will provide inferior results.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Mike. I will certainly be eating a generous whole food pro/carb meal as soon as I get home. Not overly concerned with fat loss, relatively fast metabolism, have actually used various whey isolates (not ideal I know) intra-workout without issues before, so I think Im going with the Hydro.

 

[abbot138]

I also stick to the cheapest when possible -even going the dextrose route intra before. (No slin).

Eventually I decided to try the legit cyclic dextrin and PeptoPro intra. It was def worth it. I'll still use cheap regular whey 45min before the workout but not during anymore. And I don't even have a weak stomach, but the better products seriously are better. Worth it 100%.

Good to know, Ive come to that conclusion as well without even trying them, lol. Thanks all, glad I didnt go the cheap route.

 

[abbot138]

This is the exact reason i recommend the Intra MD. I can slam a whey shake with Dextrose right after the gym and be fine, but when i tried slin I could not have a shake like that prior to the gym and then during.

I know you are trying to save money but feeling bloated while training sucks. Im not saying you gotta use intra md, but HBCD and EAA's are what digests easiest for me. And when you buy the stuff separately it cost just as much as Intra MD or close to it. If you are going up to 10iu, 3 scoops of intra would be plenty. You should just bite the bullet on the price. Just remember to dilute it enough, with 3 scoops i need 1600ml of water so you either need the big shaker or 3 different cups.

Wellllll shit man, now Im on the fence again, lol....Like I said Im a big fan of JM's and hes been preaching the benefit of Intra MD, and just intranutrition period for a while now. Ill do the math and see how it breaks down. Thanks.