Clomidiphene citrate - long term study on safety and dramatic testosterone elevation

[johnjuanb1]

I just started adding clomid into my stack of anabolics. I figure I may as well get my natural testosterone production up to see if it adds benefits to my AAS stack.
There are many medical studies on the long term safety of clomidiphene citrate to increase testosterone levels without negative side effects. I took 50mg today, but I notice these studies seem to be effective at raising testosterone from the low 200's to the 600's using 25mg per day.

Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management of hypogonadism.
Moskovic DJ, et al. BJU Int. 2012.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To assess the efficacy and safety of long-term clomiphene citrate (CC) therapy in symptomatic patients with hypogonadism (HG).

PATIENTS AND METHODS: Serum T, oestradiol and luteinizing hormone (LH) were measured in patients who were treated with CC for over 12 months. Additionally, bone densitometry (BD) results were collected for all patients. Demographic, comorbidity, treatment and Androgen Deficiency in Aging Men (ADAM) score data were also recorded. Comparison was made between baseline and post-treatment variables, and multivariable analysis was conducted to define predictors of successful response to CC. The main outcome measures were predictors of response and long-term results with long-term CC therapy in hypogonadal patients.

RESULTS: The 46 patients (mean age 44 years) had baseline serum testosterone (T) levels of 228 ng/dL. Follow-up T levels were 612 ng/dL at 1 year, 562 ng/dL at 2 years, and 582 ng/dL at 3 years (P < 0.001). Mean femoral neck and lumbar spine BD scores improved significantly. ADAM scores (and responses) fell from a baseline of 7 to a nadir of 3 after 1 year. No adverse events were reported by any patients.

CONCLUSIONS: Clomiphene citrate is an effective long-term therapy for HG in appropriate patients. The drug raises T levels substantially in addition to improving other manifestations of HG such as osteopenia/osteoporosis and ADAM symptoms.

 

[bodyenergy]

I just started adding clomid into my stack of anabolics. I figure I may as well get my natural testosterone production up to see if it adds benefits to my AAS stack.
There are many medical studies on the long term safety of clomidiphene citrate to increase testosterone levels without negative side effects. I took 50mg today, but I notice these studies seem to be effective at raising testosterone from the low 200's to the 600's using 25mg per day.

Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management of hypogonadism.
Moskovic DJ, et al. BJU Int. 2012.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To assess the efficacy and safety of long-term clomiphene citrate (CC) therapy in symptomatic patients with hypogonadism (HG).

PATIENTS AND METHODS: Serum T, oestradiol and luteinizing hormone (LH) were measured in patients who were treated with CC for over 12 months. Additionally, bone densitometry (BD) results were collected for all patients. Demographic, comorbidity, treatment and Androgen Deficiency in Aging Men (ADAM) score data were also recorded. Comparison was made between baseline and post-treatment variables, and multivariable analysis was conducted to define predictors of successful response to CC. The main outcome measures were predictors of response and long-term results with long-term CC therapy in hypogonadal patients.

RESULTS: The 46 patients (mean age 44 years) had baseline serum testosterone (T) levels of 228 ng/dL. Follow-up T levels were 612 ng/dL at 1 year, 562 ng/dL at 2 years, and 582 ng/dL at 3 years (P < 0.001). Mean femoral neck and lumbar spine BD scores improved significantly. ADAM scores (and responses) fell from a baseline of 7 to a nadir of 3 after 1 year. No adverse events were reported by any patients.

CONCLUSIONS: Clomiphene citrate is an effective long-term therapy for HG in appropriate patients. The drug raises T levels substantially in addition to improving other manifestations of HG such as osteopenia/osteoporosis and ADAM symptoms.

Do you use an ai with clomid? When i used i had bad e2profile

 

[johnjuanb1]

Do you use an ai with clomid? When i used i had bad e2profile

I never use AI's because I don't get any of the estrogen related side effects. I used to get them when I was in my 20's but they stopped.

 

[OutToLunch]

I am on endo prescribed clomid for trt

 

[johnjuanb1]

I finally figured out the difference between clomodiphene and Enclomiphene.


Clomiphene citrate is a mixture of two diastereoisomers, (cis)zuclomiphene citrate (38%) and (trans)enclomiphene citrate (62%).
Zuclomiphene is thought to cause some of the side effects that have been associated with clomiphene citrate. By contrast, enclomiphene citrate is primarily responsible for causing an increase in FSH and LH.
One example is men treated with exogenous testosterone, as such treatment will relieve symptoms of secondary hypogonadism but will not maintain or restore sperm production in the testes

This explains the advantage to clomiphene for HRT. It raises testosterone levels and restores spermatogenesis.
Taking synthetic testosterone kills sperm.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Effect of clomiphene citrate on sperm density in male partners of infertile couples.
Patankar SS, et al. Indian J Physiol Pharmacol. 2007 Apr-Jun.

Abstract

Infertility is on the rise in today's world. A subnormal sperm count is frequently encountered in infertile couples. Clomiphene citrate, 1-[p-(beta-diethyl aminoethoxy) phenyl]-1,2-diphenyl chloroethylene, is an orally active nonsteroidal agent distantly related to diethylstilbestrol. It is thought to stimulate pituitary gonadotropin release by excluding estradiol from hypothalamic receptor sites. This interaction neutralizes the normal negative feedback control of estrogen and results in enhanced secretion of LH-RH, FSH-RH and gonadotropins. Testosterone is produced by the Leydig cells in response to LH secretion. The concentration of testosterone in the tubular environment is believed to maintain the gametogenic function of the testis. Clomiphene citrate in the dose of 25 mg daily for 25 days with five days rest was administered to 25 extreme oligozoospermic men (group I) and 40 moderate oligozoospermic men (group II) the cycle being continued for three months). Repeat semen analysis was done at the end of three months and all the routine seminal parameters were reevaluated. The data thus obtained was analyzed using Student's paired 't' test. The mean sperm count in Group I increased from 3.84 +/- 0.32 to 8.2 +/- 1.58 (P < 0.05) and in Group II from 13.05 +/- 0.48 to 24.55 +/- 1.73 (P < 0.001). The mean motile sperm count in Group I increased from 1.74 +/- 0.25 to 3.92 +/- 0.83 (P < 0.05) and in Group II from 8.27 +/- 0.40 to 10.05 +/- 0.56 (P < 0.01). Thus clomiphene citrate exerts its effect on spermatogenesis by raising the endogenous serum FSH, LH and testosterone levels to initiate and maintain gametogenesis (10). Researchers opined that this increase in endogenous gonadotrophins manifests itself in improving the sperm count, sperm motility and to certain extent morphology of the sperms, when there is no end-organ pathology.

 

[Landmonster]

Questions....

1) What are you hoping to achieve by trying to raise natural test levels while on cycle? Any anabolic benefits would seem to be miniscule... whereas anabolic benefits would be easier to achieve by injecting more synthetic testosterone.

2) Does adding Clomid have any adverse affects on IGF-1 levels like Nolvadex?

3) Does Clomid have any adverse affects on strength or muscle tissue?

4) Is there a health or fertility reason to add Clomid to a cycle, like if you are trying to conceive a child?

 

[johnjuanb1]

Questions....

1) What are you hoping to achieve by trying to raise natural test levels while on cycle? Any anabolic benefits would seem to be miniscule... whereas anabolic benefits would be easier to achieve by injecting more synthetic testosterone.

2) Does adding Clomid have any adverse affects on IGF-1 levels like Nolvadex?

3) Does Clomid have any adverse affects on strength or muscle tissue?

4) Is there a health or fertility reason to add Clomid to a cycle, like if you are trying to conceive a child?

I figure it's for the same reason people take hcg while on testosterone, to keep natural production up. I don't like taking high doses of testosterone. All it does is convert to estrogen causing me side effects. That's my experience at least.
They say clomid lowers igf1 but I'm on mk677, hexarelin, cjcDAC, HGH, and insulin; all of which elevate igf1. I highly doubt adding clomid will negatively impact my IGF1 levels.
If I get a girlfriend then yes on fertility. Hahaha
Clomid dramatically increased my strength and size when I used it at high doses while off cycle. I figure it can't hurt adding it in while on cycle.

 

[johnjuanb1]

This morning I woke up with massive morning wood. I had to bend my ding dong down and lean forward to urinate. Haha
Only melanotan II does that to me. I haven't taken melanotan II in several days so it must be the clomodiphene.
I have heard the big boys keep their natural test up while on cycle which is key to making gains. So far so good. It's dirt cheap so you can't go wrong. I take 25mg per day upon waking with my T4, hexarelin, cjcDAC, HGH, and Slin, the fast a couple hours. T4 requires an hour with no food to get full absorption.

 

[sluggy]

do you have the study full text?

 

[johnjuanb1]

do you have the study full text?

I think this is the full article:

Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management of hypogonadism - Moskovic - 2012 - BJU International - Wiley Online Library

 

[Mack]

I was prescribed clomid by an endo, after 30 days I was going nutty and fighting with my girl non stop. I believe I was experiencing estrogen sides, next time I do a round of it I will use arimidex with it

 

[oxidedidmedirty]

... I take 25mg per day upon waking with my T4, hexarelin, cjcDAC, HGH, and Slin, the fast a couple hours. T4 requires an hour with no food to get full absorption.

T4 doesn't absorb properly with food.
I wonder why Mariano recommends taking with food.

 

[johnjuanb1]

T4 doesn't absorb properly with food.
I wonder why Mariano recommends taking with food.

I take it upon waking on an empty stomach. I hold it under my tongue for several minutes before swallowing.

 

[johnjuanb1]

This study compares clomid vs. testosterone in males. The clomid group actually ended up with higher testosterone levels.

Clomidiphene citrate and testosterone gel replacement therapy for male hypogonadism: efficacy and treatment cost.
Taylor F, et al. J Sex Med. 2010.
Show full citation
Abstract
INTRODUCTION: The efficacy of oral clomiphene citrate (CC) in the treatment of male hypogonadism and male infertility (MI) with low serum testosterone and normal gonadotropin levels has been reported.

AIM: The aim of this article is to evaluate CC and testosterone gel replacement therapy (TGRT) with regard to biochemical and clinical efficacy and cost.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The main outcome measures were change in serum testosterone with CC and TGRT therapy, and change in the androgen deficiency in aging male (ADAM) questionnaire scores with CC therapy.

METHODS: Men receiving CC or TGRT with either Androgel 1% or Testim 1% for hypogonadism (defined as testosterone < 300 ng/mL) or MI were included. Serum values were collected 1-2 months after treatment initiation and semi-annually thereafter. Retrospective data collection was performed via chart review. Subjective follow up of patients receiving CC was performed via telephone interview using the ADAM questionnaire.

RESULTS: A hundred and four men (65 CC and 39 TGRT) were identified who began CC (50 mg every other day) or TGRT (5 g). Average age (years) was 42(CC) vs. 57 (TGRT). Average follow up was 23 months (CC, range 8-40 months) vs. 46 months (TGRT, range 6-149 months). Average posttreatment testosterone was 573 ng/dL in the CC(clomid) group and 553 ng/dL in the TGRT(testosterone) group (P value < 0.001). The monthly cost of Testim 1% (5 gm daily) is $270, Androgel 1% (5 gm daily) is $265, and CC (50 mg every other day) is $83. Among CC patients, the average pretreatment ADAM score was 4.9 vs. 2.1 at follow up (P < 0.05). Average pretreatment ADAM sexual function domain score was 0.76 vs. 0.23 at follow up (P < 0.05). There were no adverse events reported.

CONCLUSION: CC represents a treatment option for men with hypogonadism, demonstrating biochemical and clinical efficacy with few side effects and lower cost as compared with TGRT.