Difference between exogenous GH and peptides regarding decreased insulin sensitivity

[ShZ]

Hey there,

I always thought the IGF was the cause of elevated blood suger levels if you took GH over time as it also has the ability to bind to insulin receptors and over time they would be downregulated. Now however, I've heard that IGF actually increases insulin sensitivity. How is that possible? And what's the actual cause of elevated blood suger levels when taking exogenous GH then? Is it because when the GH is active, the body's insulin release is blunted? Or is the insulin not able to bind to its receptors anymore? If that's true, would it be different with GH peptides as the can only spike GH when Insulin is absent?
Could someone please explain? I just don't get it..

Thanks in advance

 

[bigatron_01]

I personally dont believe that its related to IGF levels.

Insulin reistance caused by GH is mainly related to increased content of FFA in blood.In contrary to common belief carbohydrates increase insulin sensitivity and free fatty acids decrease it - thats why people on ketogenic diets often are suprised by higher fasting sugar levels.

Also insulin receptors doesnt really downregulate in non obese people - look at athletes they consume crazy ammount of carbs and still have excellent insulin sensitivity.

Obesity causes insulin resistance and in effect higher circulatng levels of insulin but insulin doesnt cause obesity and insulin resistance.

Just buy cheap glucometer and check if its a problem, a bit higher fasting glucose levels arent really problematic, you should care more about 1 and 2 hours measures after meals.

Or do IF and have excellent insulin sensitivity no matter what you inject

 

[bigatron_01]

Great paper here
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300772/

IGF-1, which has 48% amino acid sequence identity with proinsulin, enhances insulin sensitivity in both experimental animals and human subjects. IGF-1 binds to insulin receptors with very low affinity; therefore its binding to IGF-1 receptors and/or hybrid insulin/IGF-1 receptors has been postulated to be the mediator of enhanced insulin action (12). IGF-1 does not bind to hepatocytes or adipocytes, and therefore its primary insulin-sensitizing action is believed to be mediated through skeletal muscle. Administration of IGF-1 to normal humans results in glucose lowering that is approximately one-twelfth as potent as that induced by insulin (13), and in patients with extreme insulin resistance it improves insulin sensitivity and carbohydrate homeostasis (14).

 

[sciroxx-lab]

Let me make a quick review -

GH is a stress hormone, and just like other stress hormones such as cortisol it raises the blood glucose levels (as well as free fatty acids levels - this is part of the fat burning traits of GH). When blood glucose levels rise the pancreas releases insulin to balance it. Serum superpharmacological GH levels as a result of exogenous GH raises sharply the glucose levels and with consistent usage it creates an overload on the pancreas, which in order to cope with the constant high glucose levels secretes more and more insulin, the constant high insulin levels reduces the different cells sensitivity to insulin which may ends with insulin resistance.
By the way this is exact the same mechanism which causes type 2 diabetes as a result from the western diet which is high in refined sugar, corn and starch - same cause for increased insulin levels, reduced insulin sensitivity which may lead to insulin resistance

So as a nutshell it is caused by the direct metabolic effect of GH, and not related to IGF1, on the contrary - IGF1 increases insulin sensitivity and counteract this effect of GH, this is why it's so recommended to combine them - http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/133700-gh-igf1-should-i-combine-them.html

 

[ShZ]

Let me make a quick review -

GH is a stress hormone, and just like other stress hormones such as cortisol it raises the blood glucose levels (as well as free fatty acids levels - this is part of the fat burning traits of GH). When blood glucose levels rise the pancreas releases insulin to balance it. Serum superpharmacological GH levels as a result of exogenous GH raises sharply the glucose levels and with consistent usage it creates an overload on the pancreas, which in order to cope with the constant high glucose levels secretes more and more insulin, the constant high insulin levels reduces the different cells sensitivity to insulin which may ends with insulin resistance.
By the way this is exact the same mechanism which causes type 2 diabetes as a result from the western diet which is high in refined sugar, corn and starch - same cause for increased insulin levels, reduced insulin sensitivity which may lead to insulin resistance

So as a nutshell it is caused by the direct metabolic effect of GH, and not related to IGF1, on the contrary - IGF1 increases insulin sensitivity and counteract this effect of GH, this is why it's so recommended to combine them - http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/133700-gh-igf1-should-i-combine-them.html

Ah that makes sense, thank you very much. In your thread you said exogenous IGF-1 suppresses endogenous GH. Does this mean GH peptides are useless when you run LR3?

 

[sciroxx-lab]

On the contrary, GH is highly recommended to use while using IGF1-lr3, read back bro - the IGF1 suppresses the endogenous secretion of GH, so need to supply it from outside with exogenous GH

 

[ShZ]

On the contrary, GH is highly recommended to use while using IGF1-lr3, read back bro - the IGF1 suppresses the endogenous secretion of GH, so need to supply it from outside with exogenous GH

Sure, sorry. I wanted to ask if PEPTIDES (like GHRPs and GHRHs) are useless when you run LR3.

 

[bigatron_01]

Let me make a quick review -

GH is a stress hormone, and just like other stress hormones such as cortisol it raises the blood glucose levels (as well as free fatty acids levels - this is part of the fat burning traits of GH). When blood glucose levels rise the pancreas releases insulin to balance it. Serum superpharmacological GH levels as a result of exogenous GH raises sharply the glucose levels and with consistent usage it creates an overload on the pancreas, which in order to cope with the constant high glucose levels secretes more and more insulin, the constant high insulin levels reduces the different cells sensitivity to insulin which may ends with insulin resistance.
By the way this is exact the same mechanism which causes type 2 diabetes as a result from the western diet which is high in refined sugar, corn and starch - same cause for increased insulin levels, reduced insulin sensitivity which may lead to insulin resistance

So as a nutshell it is caused by the direct metabolic effect of GH, and not related to IGF1, on the contrary - IGF1 increases insulin sensitivity and counteract this effect of GH, this is why it's so recommended to combine them - http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/133700-gh-igf1-should-i-combine-them.html

On teh sidenote

This is not mechanism which causes type 2 diabetes, there is no evidence that raising glucose levels does any harm, its actually a part of unscientific and disproved Gary Taubes insulin hypothesis of obesity.
Insulin resistance is first and hyperinsulinemia is second, i know that its against common knowledge but it makes sense after some thought.

And thats why low carb high fat diets cause insulin resistance very fats and high carb low fat actually increases insulin resistance

https://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2016/01/testing-insulin-model-response-to-dr.html

Bad sugar or bad journalism? An expert review of ?The Case Against Sugar?.

 

[sciroxx-lab]

Lol, this is precisely the mechanism which brings insulin resistance, of course there are other factors, such as genetics , other hormones status etc which are involved...
BUT I've just mentioned it as an example.
This thread deals with the mechanism behind the GH-induced-decrease-in-insulin-sensitivity, and mentioned the possible importance of IGF1 in regulating this syndrome.
Just consider that indeed diabetes is not my expertise, I do have vast experience with GH and IGF1 as we produce them