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Telmisartan to prevent BP and Bloat from GH

discohornet

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I'm going to start taking telmisartan again for a number of reasons. It is seriously one of the most overlooked fat loss body comp aids out there. It's a long term solution to metabolic syndrome, something that can't be said about almost any other fat loss drug out there except for DNP, but micardis is safer.

But one of the new reasons I'm re-ordering it is due to this study I was just reading

**broken link removed**

In summary, we show that chronic GH excess is associated with increased aldosterone in humans and mice. GH-induced increases of aldosterone potentially contribute to the increased cardiovascular risk in acromegalic patients. The underlying mechanism is likely to be independent of renin, excess IGF-I, or adrenal aldosterone synthase expression.

Puffy hands? High blood pressure? Aldosterone is probably at the root of this.

So is there any medicine out there good at inhibiting this?

Yes there is **broken link removed**

Angiotensin II is formed from angiotensin I in a reaction catalyzed by angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE, kininase II). Angiotensin II is the principal pressor agent of the renin-angiotensin system, with effects that include vasoconstriction, stimulation of synthesis and release of aldosterone, cardiac stimulation, and renal reabsorption of sodium. Telmisartan blocks the vasoconstrictor and aldosterone secreting effects of angiotensin II by selectively blocking the binding of angiotensin II to the AT1 receptor in many tissues, such as vascular smooth muscle and the adrenal gland. Its action is therefore independent of the pathways for angiotensin II synthesis.

So I'll be going back on 80mg a day. Honestly I stopped because it was making me dehydrated. But this time around GH is causing too much sodium to be retained, so I'm going to find a dose that will balance this whole thing out.

It may also make it possible for me to experiment with the higher doses that others can take and get away with.

I have a feeling those who don't get the puffiness and high bp issues from GH also happen to naturally express less angiotensin 2.
 
the best thing about this drug is that almost anyone can benefit from it. Unless you have low blood pressure, there's at least 20 reasons to take this drug.

Hell, this may even reverse the insulin resistance caused by GH. I haven't stopped talking about that in a while now:
The role of aldosterone and angiotensin II in insulin resistance: an update.

SUMMARY The role of the Renin-Angiotensin-Aldosterone System (RAAS) on the development of insulin resistance and cardiovascular disease is an area of growing interest. Most of the deleterious actions of the RAAS on insulin sensitivity appear to be mediated through activation of the Angiotensin II (Ang II) Receptor type 1 (AT(1)R) and increased production of mineralocorticoids. The underlying mechanisms leading to impaired insulin sensitivity remain to be fully elucidated, but involve increased production of reactive oxygen species and oxidative stress. Both experimental and clinical studies also implicate aldosterone in the development of insulin resistance, hypertension, endothelial dysfunction, cardiovascular tissue fibrosis, remodeling, inflammation and oxidative stress. There is also abundant evidence linking aldosterone, through non-genomic actions, to defective intracellular insulin signaling, impaired glucose homeostasis and systemic insulin resistance not only in skeletal muscle and liver but also in cardiovascular tissue. Blockade of the different components of the RAAS, in particular Ang II and AT(1)R, results in attenuation of insulin resistance, glucose homeostasis, as well as decreased cardiovascular disease morbidity and mortality. These beneficial effects go beyond to those expected with isolated control of hypertension. This review focuses on the role of Ang II and aldosterone in the pathogenesis of insulin resistance, as well as in clinical relevance of RAAS blockade in the prevention and treatment of the Metabolic Syndrome and cardiovascular disease.
 
Interesting....I assume that this is only availiable with a script.

I actually read that study a few weeks ago when I started having a few issues with water retention. It happened shortly after I bumped my does up from 4iu's to 6iu's.

I immediately dropped backed down to 4iu's, and cut out all the peps that I was using along with it to increase natural GH. After about a week, some of the water dropped off...but not all of it.

My MD knows what I am using as I tell him everything. I even had printed out a copy of that report to take with him. He believed one of my issues is with the blood pressure medicine I am currently on. I am borderline hypertensive and have been for 15+ years. I had been on Diovan for a long time, and then was moved to a smaller dose of Exforge which is a combination of Diovan and Norvasc some time ago.

Diovan is an angiotensin II receptor antagonist that blocks the action of certain chemicals that tighten the blood vessels, so blood flows more smoothly. Norvasc is a calcium channel blocker that lowers blood pressure by relaxing the blood vessels. I boxed for quite a long time, and also was/am a strong Type A personality. It's almost as though I could turn on the fight or flight response at will, and a lot of my issues were stress induced. It is something I have been working on for years, and I can tell a difference as I don't let a lot of things bother me anymore.

He said that the script along with an increase in the temperature outside which results in your body trying to self-regulate it's own temperature was what he thought the biggest reaon why I was tending to hold a small amount of water in my ankles after being on my feet all day.

I know that within a couple of hours of being home with my feet up, the swelling goes away.

But my blood tests came back fine, and he said the edema was very minimal as compared to what he sees when most people come in for that issue. Also since my blood pressure has been reading so good for some time, his recommendation was that I continue what I am on (Exforge) and that we would run a complete adrenal panel along with Aldosterone and Catecholamines checks if I notice that the issues are getting worse. I had one ran not too long ago at my yearly checkup that was fine.

I am going to look more into Telmisartan as well, and bring it up to him although he feels that I worry a little too much at times. I just want to be assured.
 
So after looking at all of this again after reading this thread, it seems that Diovan (Valsartan) and Telmisartan are similar to one another.

I need to research and see what differences there are between the two.

**EDIT**

Diovan (valsartan) blocks the vasoconstrictor and aldosterone-secreting effects of angiotensin II by selectively blocking the binding of angiotensin II to the AT1 receptor in many tissues. Angiotensin II is the principal pressor agent of the renin-angiotensin system, with effects including vasocantstriction, stimulation of synthesis and release of aldosterone, cardiac stimulation, and renal reabsorption of sodium.
 
Last edited:
Comparison of telmisartan vs. valsartan in the tre... [J Clin Hypertens (Greenwich). 2002 Jul-Aug] - PubMed result

These data suggest greater efficacy for telmisartan than valsartan in controlling blood pressure throughout the 24-hour dosing interval, including the last 6 hours before dosing, and the two agents were similarly well tolerated.




Telmisartan provides superior blood pressure control to valsartan and amlodipine
Telmisartan provides superior blood pressure control to valsartan and amlodipine



Here's a really rad one!!!

Telmisartan But Not Valsartan Increases Caloric Expenditure and Protects Against Weight Gain and Hepatic Steatosis

Telmisartan But Not Valsartan Increases Caloric Expenditure and Protects Against Weight Gain and Hepatic Steatosis

Telmisartan reduced the accumulation of visceral fat and decreased adipocyte size to a much greater extent than valsartan and was also associated with a significant reduction in hepatic triglyceride levels. Moreover, telmisartan, but not valsartan, increased the expression of both nuclear-encoded and mitochondrial-encoded genes in skeletal muscle known to play important roles in mitochondrial energy metabolism. Thus, in addition to a class effect of ARBs in modulating adipocyte size, these findings raise the possibility that certain molecules, like telmisartan, may have a particularly strong impact on fat cell volume and fat accumulation, as well as distinctive effects on energy metabolism, that may help protect against dietary-induced visceral obesity and weight gain.


There's plenty more when you google telmisartan versus valsartan. Awesome stuff.

It's available through overseas pharmacies like pharmacyescrow.com (use code CID237201 for a discount). A "script" costs 5 bucks through their site at checkout. but it sounds like you have a doctor that would be willing to switch your script for you anyways and no one can beat walmart type prices.
 
I have been taking micardis now for a few days whilst not taking GH. I wanted to give the micardis a chance to start working and i'm going to start taking GH today at 10 iu's a day for as long as I can before the sides begin to bother me or no more than 7 days, because I'm not Daddy Warbucks.

So who knows, maybe I'll never get those sides I was getting before, now that I'm using telmisartan. We'll see.
 
for those worried about prostate cancer

Telmisartan is a potent target for prevention
and treatment in human prostate cancer
**broken link removed**
 
REGRESSION of your left ventricular hypertrophy using telmisartan

DocGuide

If you recall, LVH is one of the more serious and common results of being athletic and it makes things worse when you use hormones.

Telmisartan is the most effective medication today that can actually help undo this effect.
 
Thanks DH!!

I have started reading some of the studies, and will start putting together some notes for my doctor.

Please let me know how things progress for you.
 
Good read, good info, Disco!
 
Thanks DH!!

I have started reading some of the studies, and will start putting together some notes for my doctor.

Please let me know how things progress for you.

I need to back off on my dose (80mg). I get dehydrated and cold in my fingers when I take too much. Good to know it's working, now it's time to see how little I need to get the needed effect.
 
I need to back off on my dose (80mg). I get dehydrated and cold in my fingers when I take too much. Good to know it's working, now it's time to see how little I need to get the needed effect.

Are you using the regular or HCT version? Also, was just wondering if you had a need for BP meds before GH, and how the numbers were looking for your blood pressure?

Hell, this stuff is cheaper than the valsartan blend I am on as there is no generic at the moment.
 
Unfortunately this applies to me as well. Thank you for the interesting study.

I just sent it to a doctor friend for his take. He owns an hrt clinic. Hes AAS friendly.

Great another drug I may take! Im so happy I've chosen this healthy lifestyle. :confused:

Im concerned that I started gear at 45. Its not going to help me live longer. But, darn it, I look much better. What are you guys gonna do who started much earlier? Yall concerned?

When i was in my 20s and 30s hypertensive medications were something I marketed to doctors to prescribe to their old, fat smoker patients. Gee whiz.
 
Im concerned that I started gear at 45. Its not going to help me live longer. But, darn it, I look much better. What are you guys gonna do who started much earlier? Yall concerned?

Let's not confuse using replacement doses with abusing higher dosages. If you're 45 and your health is of utmost importance then it's actually beneficial to use testosterone if you are experiencing andropause. I could fill an entire thread with the detrimental effects on health that low testosterone can lead to.

Now, doing some of the stupid shit I do is probably not the smartest, no. But that's why I'm so adamant about finding solutions to some of the sides. A little damage control.

Plus, I've always had a bit of trouble with my blood pressure (too many years of ephedrine abuse, now that shit will fuck you up) so this is a pretty smart step in the right direction.

On top of that there are so many benefits to telmisartan that it would boggle the mind why someone wouldn't take it if they were using gear. In my mind it's getting right up there with anti-e's and such.


Lowered cholesterol - check
decreased visceral fat - check
increased nitric oxide production - check
decreased fluid retention - check
increased cardiovascular health - check
improved glucose tolerance - check
decreased left ventricular hypertrophy - check
decreased kidney stress - check
 
Are you using the regular or HCT version? Also, was just wondering if you had a need for BP meds before GH, and how the numbers were looking for your blood pressure?

Hell, this stuff is cheaper than the valsartan blend I am on as there is no generic at the moment.

just the regular version. I probably needed them before gh use - I used a lot of ephedrine in my time, been overweight most of my life, drank too much, smoked too much.

Now it's stupid of me not to be on something to keep my bp in check. And why not in this instance, was my thinking.
 
discohornet, if you didn't have any blood pressure issues, would taking a low dose of this product for the other benefits be worth it? Let's assume some are on a cycle with and without taking GH.

The Beggar
 
I certainly think so, beggar. The only concern you'd have is low blood pressure. There are other sides to this and some can be serious, but it's rare.

If one is taking gear in any appreciable amount I can almost guarantee their bp could stand to have a few points taken off the top.
 
I think all of us should be getting more pottassium and less sodium in our diets. I have also learned that adding some potassium is not going to do much when you're taking higher doses of gh which causes retention of sodium.
 
This is very interesting. This is the first time I've ever heard of a blood pressure medicine or diuretic actually stating it reduces bloat from GH. I thought it was still a mystery for most of us why GH bloat and peptide bloat occurs. We usually think it's prolactin but even with anti-prolactins the bloat still occurs. This is very interesting.
 

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