CJC/GHRP timing with pre-workout Humulin R

dtp3347 · Feb 19, 2013

Hey guys. I have been doing a lot of searching and have still yet to find a good answer for this question so I thought I would post it here.

I just started researching with a pre-workout insulin protocol similar to Milos/Mike Arnold's protocols (on my rat) and was curious how long I should wait to dose him with CJC/GHRP post insulin pin. I am researching 10IU Humulin R Intramuscularly @ around 10:00 AM and having him start his usual workout protocol @ 11:00 AM, usually ending around 12:30.

From what i have read, it seems that Humulin R IM onset is around 30 mins (seems to be accurate from observing my rat), peak around 2 hours, and 3-4 hours to clear the system

My main concern is insulin's suppression of growth hormone but the only article I could find was this Insulin suppresses growth hormone secretion by rat pituitary cells.

according to my probably flawed math, 0.7nM of insulin is 4065ng/mL or 4065ug/L aka 89IU/L

So .7nM of insulin inhibited Basal GH secretion by approx 50% (after 8 Days straight of exposure to exogenous insulin in a concentration of 4065ug/ml or 89IU/L)

assuming (again yell at me if my math is wrong) the human body has 5.6 L of blood, that would be roughly 500IU of circulating insulin....

Again I am not claiming this math is right and I want someone to check it for me but after reading that is there any reason to think that the doses we are researching with are anywhere close to enough to inhibit GH secretion? Obviously this is only 1 study but if anyone else has any info please chime in!

ManoftheWorld · Feb 19, 2013

I did my peps upon waking when would hit my slin preWO a couple hours later to keep from any conflict between the two..

dtp3347 · Feb 20, 2013

cmon guys! can anyone atleast check my math to make sure im not completely fucking this up?

dtp3347 · Feb 20, 2013

Well in short I was completely fucking up the math. Now that I have the correct math this may be useful to a couple people so here it is.

On one of Dat's threads he uses this calculation :

"...we find that "3 IU/L, equivalent to 20 nmol/L" ...so 10 nmol/L is equivalent to 1.5 IU/L

From Wiki Answers **broken link removed**

...we find that humans have 5-6 litres of blood in general.

So 5 x 1.5 = 7.5IU
So 6 x 1.5 = 9IU"

That would put the 0.7nM value at 0.105IU/L or 0.525IU-0.63IU where insulin suppresses GH which would make way more sense number wise.

however when I gather the calculation from a raw source :

""M" as in 1 M solution is used to represent a concentration of 1 mol/L.

Also, per Wikipedia, the molecular weight is 1/1000 of the value you gave, 5808 Da or 5.808 kDa, and the molar mass is 5808 g/mol.

3.5 ng/mL = 3.5 µg/L.
If we divide by 5808 g/mol, we get 0.603 nmol/L = 0.603 nM. "

by that math we get 0.7nM*5808 = 4.065ug/L = .089IU/L

for 5-6L of blood that is 0.446IU-0.536IU

So we can say that if insulin is chronically* elevated to a level of .089IU/L or 0.4IU-0.6IU, it will inhibit gh secretion.

from Wikipedia, it seems that the average insulin concentration for humans between meals is ~57-79pmol/L. Taking the high end of that spectrum for arguments sake we get 0.0079nmol/L aka 0.459ug/L.

that puts us at 0.01IU/L or 0.05IU to 0.06IU in concentration between meals.

So as long as we don't have chronically elevated insulin levels (~10x the normal amount between means). We shouldn't see GH suppression via insulin according to this study (whether or not that remains true with large doses of insulin and troughs in between is yet to be determined).

*Also I re-read the study that I referenced initially and it says that "Basal GH secretion was inhibited by insulin (0.7 nM) after a 48-h lag period by approximately 50%"

So it seems that the period at which Insulin becomes inhibitory is after 48 hours of consistent exposure rather than 8 days (assuming im reading that correctly)