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Are we living a new "test is dirty" era?

ALLEX

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Joined
Oct 18, 2006
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6,860
Ok, let me start by saying that I don't even know if this is some kind of myth or if it's true, but word is that during the 60's and 70's test was frowned upon by most bodybuilders (old timers please chime in here).

So, I'm not sure how things were in the 80s, but during the 90's and 00's we had a "test is king" mentality, didn't we all?

Now we see many folks avoiding high-test again, keeping a low dose of 100mg while blasting other compounds.

For those who've been on both sides of the fence, what are your thoughts about this? Is there a difference between approaches, or when everything is said and done, both will lead to the same place? Also, health wise, is there a difference between battling high test sides for years and a less androgenic, more anabolic approach?

Thanks.
 
It seems like its divided pretty well, some people react badly and avoid it, other people swear by it. People are always looking for that one universal answer tho right? Seems like its hard to go wrong with hormone so close to whats in our bodies.
 
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Try both see what works for you. I do well on low test but all my friend with fast metabolism uses moderate - high test with good results. Imo it really depends on how your body manage estro/water retention with exogenous testosterone. For me I don't see the point to gain 20-25pound with 500mg test and high dose AI and keep 5-7pound after. I rather gain 10-15 pound on cycle and keep most of it post cycle.
 
200 test and 1000 or more primo would be Heaven yr round!
 
200 test and 1000 or more primo would be Heaven yr round!

Would you compare primo to tren? I've seen people compare the two, plus primo is easier on the body if I'm not mistaken


To answer OPs question, I haven't had much experience in all this yet but I have found that high test isn't for me. Acne, lump in nips and just don't feel right with higher test. For me this is 500-750 range. I agree with the guy above that said those with faster metabolisms respond better with more test, or those that are naturally lean for that matter. Bboy made a thread a while back titled "some thoughts" he mentioned this as well, and recommend those without the fast metabolisms stick to say tren as their aas of choice. I'd have to agree with him thus far
 
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Primo is the exact opposite. Happy instead of angry muscle.lol
 
Lol how would you compare the muscle/fat loss to that of tren?
 
I think the change and test dosages are more tied to other compounds being run and the goals of the cycle. My personal view is high test during a bulk and low test during a cut. But that's also again mainly ties into the compounds being used for each goal. I also think that old 2:1 ratio has been shown that it doesn't always work and isn't needed. I love test at a gram during a bulk with other compounds but I couldn't imagine trying to cut with test near a gram and tren 700+. So, I don't think it's so much that we are in a test is dirty time like the 70s, more so that we have become aware that different doses can help accomplish different goals and that you don't always have to run the old bro 2:1 ratio of test to other anabolics "so you dick still works."
 
I hate to say this but i do most of these threads: BIG A 's contest diet has u using "bulking AAS" test deca abombs etc 4 weeks up to the show.. isn't it safe to say by 4 weeks u should be under 10% BF.. for me thats fantastic just to walk around the beach...cruise year round on 250-500 week test e 300mg deca d well being is fantastic, look great super strong... and if my diet gets out of hand a lil i will bloat use arimidex to control... i really employ this life style and extremely happy both mentally and physically.

don't get me wrong tren is fantastic and i think great for a month before the show to dial it in, but u can keep the mood swings the sweats and all that other bullshit...
 
Would you compare primo to tren? I've seen people compare the two, plus primo is easier on the body if I'm not mistaken

Mg for mg there's no comparison, tren is king.There seems to be something magical that happens north of 600-800mg of primo. The anabolic and and anti e properties give users a unique feeling of euphoria, full muscle bellies and increased definition that no other compound gives you (chemists hit a grand slam on primo). Tren doesnt give you full muscle bellies, so for the same effect add just 200mg of npp with your tren and youll have superprimo (sans the euphoriA).

To answer the OPs question, I think with the dosages running north of 2-3g of gear a week, less test is hitting the receptor and ends up roaming the body like a criminal thru the streets with no police and wrecks havoc on the body. It's really that simple.
 
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Well, I've been using test since the 80s, and it was never considered "dirty", but necessary, even at low doses. It seems, from what I've read throughout the years is in the middle east and eastern europe test is considered dirty.

If you look at those bbrs, they usually come in very dry and ripped and ther size isn't lacking either. If you believe it might be dirty, they give other compounds a mix and whirl and see if your condition changes to your liking. I need some as a base...but I wouldn't mind going heavier on others just to see what might occur with less water etc. that test creates.
 
Alex think about it. If everything was used from doctors and was pharm grade don't u think #1 product used was test. The one thing I can tell you is that without having the knowledge of what others guys are running most of those guys used much lower doses. That's what attributed to there physique not , because they used no test.
 
Lol how would you compare the muscle/fat loss to that of tren?

It works best in a lower BF playground. I can't use it anymore based on my blood tests, and what it does to my lipid profiles...that said, it is what it is....which is a fantastic supplement...but it will wreak havoc on your blood panel. Personally if all is equal, tren is king, then primo, only based on the condition and overall look it gives me.

However, I might add primo to my upcoming routine, as tren will no longer be an option for me moving forward.
 
What does it mean "dirty"? Every male produces testosterone, doctors prescribes testosterone it is the closest bodybuilding drug to human nature, why it has to be dirty? With test I have noticed only one thing - the more I take the bigger I get...this does not happen with any other aas, felt no difference in 225mg tren vs 700mg tren week, 350mg npp vs 700mg npp etc
Ask the biggest guys on this board what they think about testosterone...I bet for most of them if not all of them test is their base drug, test built their bodies.
Tren is dirty halo is dirty drol is dirty mtren is dirty etc I do not see why testosterone could be dirty compared to these mentioned before...
 
Oh, I miss the high test was king and Drol days. ;). As my little guy says. (More, more... More, more) it was all about how much I could push into my body.
There is a lot more info at our hands today. Imagine all the vets we can chat with at the least from the 80's on many who stayed in the game in one from or another. I know for me getting back in the game I learned my body wasn't happy with me blasting high test through my body. I did everything blind in the 90's now I looking at lab results n keeping any issues in check the best I can.
I reached out to a well respected vet on another board when I was watching my liver values go crazy, Hemocrit through the roof and a few other things. He was one who first told me we don't need to blast the high Test anymore at least for us middle age dinosaurs . Pick from a list of tired n true easier on the body secondaries keep test lower and enjoy the ride as he said.
Beats joking about feeling the pass through on the liver on the heavier doses of Drol.
Great topic!
 
Bloat makes a lot of guys lose sight of the fact that testosterone not only builds muscle, but also burns fat. Guys that are at a higher bodyfat percentage get shafted with regard to bloat from test. From what I understand old school bodybuilders didn't have aromatase inhibitors available like today so the "test is dirty" mentality is understandable for them. If you keep your bodyfat and estrogen in check you shouldn't turn into a water buffalo.
 
I was the biggest and leanest ever on 1g of test/week...moreso than when combining lower amounts with deca, tren, eq, etc.

Once I start homebrewing that's probably all I'll use...got one more blast to do to clean out the closet but that will probably be it.
 
Bloat makes a lot of guys lose sight of the fact that testosterone not only builds muscle, but also burns fat. Guys that are at a higher bodyfat percentage get shafted with regard to bloat from test. From what I understand old school bodybuilders didn't have aromatase inhibitors available like today so the "test is dirty" mentality is understandable for them. If you keep your bodyfat and estrogen in check you shouldn't turn into a water buffalo.

Test is not dirty. Your genetics makes it dirty or not. Any anabolics will increase fat free mass and reduce body fat to some extent depend on the diet. And AI doesn't reduce water retention one bit for me. And I stay around 10-12% 9fold calipers tested year round so I'm not contest lean but I'm not "FAT" either.

This is quoted from patrick arnold blog:

People familiar with the use of anabolic steroids know that water retention and hypertension (high blood pressure) are potential side effects. This is due to the fact that all androgenic hormones have the capacity to cause some sodium retention (and hence water retention) through direct action via androgen receptors in the kidneys.

Furthermore, anabolic steroids that are estrogenic or can convert to estrogens can cause even more sodium retention via additional interaction with renal (kidney) estrogen receptors. So it’s often thought that an anabolic steroids propensity for water retention is related to its potency both as an androgen and as an estrogen (manifested via aromatization to estrogenic metabolites).

Confusion has often arisen however when people have noticed that some steroids – which traditional thinking tells us should not result in extraordinary water retention – end up doing just that. Steroids that should not aromatize to estrogens such as oxymetholone (anadrol) and methyl-1-testosterone are known to result in extreme water retention in some individuals. A recent paper* suggests a heretofore unmentioned explanation for this.

There is an enzyme that is localized primarily in the kidneys whose function is to protect the kidneys from circulating cortisol. The kidneys have receptors called mineralcorticoid receptors (MR’s) which are meant to bind to specific adrenal hormones (called mineralcorticoids) in the body such as aldosterone. The result of this binding is a signal to increase sodium and water retention in the body, while stimulating the excretion of potassium. This is an important mechanism to maintain fluid and electrolyte balance in the body.

A problem exists though in that cortisol can also bind activate these receptors. Cortisol is a widely circulating hormone and serves a multitude of functions throughout the body. However its intended biological functions do not include mineralcorticoid action in the kidneys, so to prevent this from happening the kidneys are rich in the enzyme 11b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 2 (11b-HSD2). This enzyme deactivates cortisol by converting it into cortisone before it can bind to the renal MRs.

Certain substances can block 11b-HSD2, and that can lead to problems. One example is a constituent of black licorice known as glycyrrhetinic acid. This enzyme inhibition potential is precisely why people that consume a lot of black licorice are known to retain water and experience high blood pressure and electrolyte disturbances. Interestingly, legend has it that Genghis Khan had his armies ingest licorice while on the march to prevent thirst and dehydration. Of course Genghis Khan had no idea that 11b-HSD2 inhibition was responsible for these effects, and today many have been similarly unaware that this property might be responsible for some of the salt/water effects of anabolic steroids.
 
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