Cartilage in Knee Mostly Gone -what to do?

[omoplata]

A friend's knee is in bad shape because the cartilage in the knee has -according to his doctor- worn very thin and more than 50-60% dısappeared over time due to misuse.

What can help him to regenerate the cartilage? Is there hope?
I have heard some things about TB 500 and also GH may be one potential option. But will they make a difference? What else would you suggest? (not really thinking that deca will do much here but I am open to suggestions).

 

[chemical engineer]

Glucosamine and chondrotin regrew cartlidge in my knee . My last knee surgery my ortho video taped it and showed me where it was regenerating the cartlidge where it was worn down and frayed!he encouraged me to keep taking it! Now if it is gone it won't grow back.

 

[SAGE74]

A friend's knee is in bad shape because the cartilage in the knee has -according to his doctor- worn very thin and more than 50-60% dısappeared over time due to misuse.

What can help him to regenerate the cartilage? Is there hope?
I have heard some things about TB 500 and also GH may be one potential option. But will they make a difference? What else would you suggest? (not really thinking that deca will do much here but I am open to suggestions).

Unfortunately there is no supp available that will replace lost cartilage. First the molecule is to big, and ur body is systemic. Ur body doesn't have the ability to take a substance and put it in a specific spot in ur body. Once cartilage is gone it's gone, the reason is there is very little if any blood supply in cartilage. That's also the reason why sups won't work, they have no way to get there. Surgery is the only way to fix it. Deca works as an anti inflammatory it may give temporary relief but it's not lubricating the joints, that's just bro science. Go see an orthopedist. Good luck.

 

[ubermensch]

my mom got the gel injections and it has seemed to help. doctor looked at her xray and said her's was past bone on bone and more like bone in bone. its not a cure but it could save him little time from needing knee replacement

 

[Jude2]

my mom got the gel injections and it has seemed to help. doctor looked at her xray and said her's was past bone on bone and more like bone in bone. its not a cure but it could save him little time from needing knee replacement

This got rid of my knee pain after my surgery. I had a series of 5 shots 1 per week for 5 weeks. Now u only have to take on Synvic sp? shot for the treatment.

 

[Delta]

You might wanna look into PRP (Platelet Rich Plasma) injections or gel injections.

 

[hardtothecore]

I work in orthopedics and can offer you my insights..."gel injections", or more specifically, Hyaluronic Acid injections, such as Synvisc, Euflexxa, Gel-One, orthovisc, Hyalgan, and Supartz (I think thats all of them) Will provide temporary relief for osteoarthritis of the knee for up to around 6 months. They can be performed in either a single injection (Gel-One and Synvisc-One), or multiple, weekly injections for 3-5 weeks. Literature shows that the single injection preparations have the same, if not even better efficacy than the multi shot versions. Gel-One is the newest HA injection out there, and is only a single, 3ml injection, vs the other single shot treatment, syndics one, which is 6ml (which as you know will hurt like a bitch)

These injections are basically just a band-aid, and supplement synovial fluid, thereby "lubing up" your knee." Think of it as simply changing the oil in your knee.. No bridges are burned, and most insurances will pay for treatment every 6 months.

The next phase would obviously involve cutting, i.e. arthroscopy, partial knee replacement, total knee replacement, allografts/autografts and various other procedures. If you have any questions hit me up and id be happy to offer my opinions

 

[BigBarraza]

ghrp2/cjc1295 or GH may help

I've had 2 surgeries on my right knee, the last one I woke up halfway thru and caused hell before I realized what the %$#@ was going on. I couldn't see, I knocked down a nurse, cleaned one of those equipment tables, scared the shit out of everyone trying to hold me down, and hurt my knee really bad. I was all hooked up and they were in my knee working when I woke up, flipped out and tried to get up....... Damn just typing that gets to me and it was over 3yrs ago.

Anyways my knee was left even worse than before the surgery and I couldn't even walk before it. They we doing the surgery to shave my knee cap and repair tears in the joint cartilage. My knee tears itself up inside the joint with bone spurs. They trashed my knee It just wouldn't heal couldn't do physical therapy or anything. Way worst than the first surgery and according to the dr. I would need another surgery every couple years.

At the time I had not messed with any gear or anything yet but I read a lot and have a close friend that competes. I started researching ghrp-2/cjc1295 no dac (cant afford good gh) and well it made my knee hurt like hell, tingle and HEAL. After a few weeks I was able to start physical therapy made it thru, started walking in a few months and now I don't even have a bad knee! It wasn't overnight but I highly doubt my knee would be in the same shape it's in today without the peptides. It's fixed!

I can do full squats, leg press and everything now! I'm closing in on 10x45's on each side for my 15rep work set on leg press. Now I know that may not impress anyone on here but its my personal best and very, very far beyond what I ever imagined i'd be capable of. :headbang: Nothing you could say can take away how that makes me feel.

I owe my ability to walk in part to the Professional muscle fourm and all the knowledgeable people on here. Not only can I walk I can run! THANKS PROMUSCLE!

 

[fitnesskatz]

A friend's knee is in bad shape because the cartilage in the knee has -according to his doctor- worn very thin and more than 50-60% dısappeared over time due to misuse.

What can help him to regenerate the cartilage? Is there hope?
I have heard some things about TB 500 and also GH may be one potential option. But will they make a difference? What else would you suggest? (not really thinking that deca will do much here but I am open to suggestions).

Hey brother what's up,,,delta gave you some good info I'd start with,,,Germany has by far the most advanced ortho procedures in the world some of it has migrated over here where doctors can understand it,,, before I retired from service I tore my patella in right knee I was sent to Germany many pro athletes are even going there where they perform these graphs instead of old school stitching tendons and ligaments recovery is remarkable I will try fund you a link to read about and pm you but they also ones that have developed these gel shots and others I'm sure there is others out there I'm not aware of however the shots only buy time if your friend is within some type if a reasonable range from Alabama James Andrew by far the best also his center in Birmingham use to offer a list of referrals I'd say you have to be pretty good to get on that list I wouldn't promise that is still there but hey might be a good starting point sometimes a phone call to the right place can get you valuable info,,,good luck

Sent from my HTC One VX using Tapatalk

 

[wukillabee]

I work in orthopedics and can offer you my insights..."gel injections", or more specifically, Hyaluronic Acid injections, such as Synvisc, Euflexxa, Gel-One, orthovisc, Hyalgan, and Supartz (I think thats all of them) Will provide temporary relief for osteoarthritis of the knee for up to around 6 months. They can be performed in either a single injection (Gel-One and Synvisc-One), or multiple, weekly injections for 3-5 weeks. Literature shows that the single injection preparations have the same, if not even better efficacy than the multi shot versions. Gel-One is the newest HA injection out there, and is only a single, 3ml injection, vs the other single shot treatment, syndics one, which is 6ml (which as you know will hurt like a bitch)

These injections are basically just a band-aid, and supplement synovial fluid, thereby "lubing up" your knee." Think of it as simply changing the oil in your knee.. No bridges are burned, and most insurances will pay for treatment every 6 months.

The next phase would obviously involve cutting, i.e. arthroscopy, partial knee replacement, total knee replacement, allografts/autografts and various other procedures. If you have any questions hit me up and id be happy to offer my opinions

This right here. My cartilage was ok but very little fluid in my knees so when sitting bent like in a movie theater where knees are bent for a Kong time, standing up they would then kill for hours! Walking like a 90yr old man. Same with keg training, was barely able to squat just 1 45lb plate on each side of the barbell for 8 reps the pain in knees where so bad! I then saw my ortho and we tried the synvisc shots. I believe it was 3 shots in each knee once a week and like 2ml each shot. Also said would last up to 6mths but since there is no "cure" for this that this is a band aid treatment. Well a month later and knees feel basically 100% for me now! Can job uphill, from kegs pretty decent again, etc. Maybe something worth looking into but maybe different since I wasn't really having cartilage issues, more lack of knee fluid.

 

[omoplata]

I work in orthopedics and can offer you my insights..."gel injections", or more specifically, Hyaluronic Acid injections, such as Synvisc, Euflexxa, Gel-One, orthovisc, Hyalgan, and Supartz (I think thats all of them) Will provide temporary relief for osteoarthritis of the knee for up to around 6 months. They can be performed in either a single injection (Gel-One and Synvisc-One), or multiple, weekly injections for 3-5 weeks. Literature shows that the single injection preparations have the same, if not even better efficacy than the multi shot versions. Gel-One is the newest HA injection out there, and is only a single, 3ml injection, vs the other single shot treatment, syndics one, which is 6ml (which as you know will hurt like a bitch)

These injections are basically just a band-aid, and supplement synovial fluid, thereby "lubing up" your knee." Think of it as simply changing the oil in your knee.. No bridges are burned, and most insurances will pay for treatment every 6 months.

The next phase would obviously involve cutting, i.e. arthroscopy, partial knee replacement, total knee replacement, allografts/autografts and various other procedures. If you have any questions hit me up and id be happy to offer my opinions

Thanks a lot Brother
Do you think ghrp-2/cjc1295 may offer any relief? How about straight GH?

And as far as procedures involving cutting, do you mind giving an idea about how long it'd take to return to heavy lifting, running, jumping etc for various types of procedures? Of course it will vary greatly but a broad guideline will be very helpful.

 

[hardtothecore]

Thanks a lot Brother
Do you think ghrp-2/cjc1295 may offer any relief? How about straight GH?

And as far as procedures involving cutting, do you mind giving an idea about how long it'd take to return to heavy lifting, running, jumping etc for various types of procedures? Of course it will vary greatly but a broad guideline will be very helpful.

To be honest, I haven't seen enough results from peptides to offer any advice there... only anecdotally have I seen people claim their joint pain has reduced after using GH... I've never seen any real studies regarding cartilage regeneration and peptide usage.

Now when we're talking cutting, it all depends on what is going to actually be done. For example, you could have a simple arthroscopy done, with a debridement/menisectomy and be back to full activity in a matter of weeks, whereas if you had a partial knee replacement, you'd be out for months, and may never feel the same or be able to be as active.

In my opinion, original parts are always better than aftermarket. If you don't need any hardware, don't jump on the surgery bandwagon, as once you start cutting bone, bridges are burned, and your options down the road decrease exponentially. I don't know if it applies to you, but there is a very cool new procedure out there called a "subchondroplasty" that I've seen some amazing results from. You are weight bearing immediately post op, and from what I'm seeing, patients who have knee pain from bone marrow edema/subchondral defects (which usually accompanies the issues you discussed), get significant pain relief. Might be worth checking out. also, I cannot stress enough to research your surgeon... make sure they are competent and high volume and highly experienced. A lot of hacks out there who want to play doctor who have no fucking clue.

 

[scrapper13]

sounds like your options are limited. at some point we all come to the conclusion that we are mortal and are bodies cant take a beating everyday forever. That being said most times we are still able to train but may have to alter a few parts of our regiment. It sucks but happens to everyone.

 

[omoplata]

Thank you very much to all; very helpful...

 

[Bio]

A friend's knee is in bad shape because the cartilage in the knee has -according to his doctor- worn very thin and more than 50-60% dısappeared over time due to misuse.

What can help him to regenerate the cartilage? Is there hope?
I have heard some things about TB 500 and also GH may be one potential option. But will they make a difference? What else would you suggest? (not really thinking that deca will do much here but I am open to suggestions).

Take a look online and see if there's any stem cell studies going on that you may qualify for.

 

[LK3]

Hyaluronic Acid works both locally and systemically if injected im. there are some interesting studies on horses to check out.

curcumin is a great anti inflamitory with no real nagative effects, moe liek possative side effects.

 

[SAGE74]

I've had 2 surgeries on my right knee, the last one I woke up halfway thru and caused hell before I realized what the %$#@ was going on. I couldn't see, I knocked down a nurse, cleaned one of those equipment tables, scared the shit out of everyone trying to hold me down, and hurt my knee really bad. I was all hooked up and they were in my knee working when I woke up, flipped out and tried to get up....... Damn just typing that gets to me and it was over 3yrs ago.

Anyways my knee was left even worse than before the surgery and I couldn't even walk before it. They we doing the surgery to shave my knee cap and repair tears in the joint cartilage. My knee tears itself up inside the joint with bone spurs. They trashed my knee It just wouldn't heal couldn't do physical therapy or anything. Way worst than the first surgery and according to the dr. I would need another surgery every couple years.

At the time I had not messed with any gear or anything yet but I read a lot and have a close friend that competes. I started researching ghrp-2/cjc1295 no dac (cant afford good gh) and well it made my knee hurt like hell, tingle and HEAL. After a few weeks I was able to start physical therapy made it thru, started walking in a few months and now I don't even have a bad knee! It wasn't overnight but I highly doubt my knee would be in the same shape it's in today without the peptides. It's fixed!

I can do full squats, leg press and everything now! I'm closing in on 10x45's on each side for my 15rep work set on leg press. Now I know that may not impress anyone on here but its my personal best and very, very far beyond what I ever imagined i'd be capable of. :headbang: Nothing you could say can take away how that makes me feel.

I owe my ability to walk in part to the Professional muscle fourm and all the knowledgeable people on here. Not only can I walk I can run! THANKS PROMUSCLE!

U must have made a fortune taking the hospital to court, the surgeon, and especially the anesthesiologist!!!

 

[dragonfire101]

Autologous matrix-induced chondrogenesis, Autologous chondrocyte implantation & Articular cartilage stem cell paste grafting.

 

[scrapper13]

U must have made a fortune taking the hospital to court, the surgeon, and especially the anesthesiologist!!!

Not necessarily I had 2 orthopedic procedures done that were identical and done 6 months apart by the same doc and team. The first one I woke up 3 hours post op while the second I woke up several times during the surgery. I was given the same dosage by anesthesiologist but the body can react differently on different days. Not really anything they did wrong

 

[omoplata]

Autologous matrix-induced chondrogenesis, Autologous chondrocyte implantation & Articular cartilage stem cell paste grafting.

Hmmm... a quick wikipeadia search shows that this is a very new approach

"The first in-vitro work demonstrating that a collagen membrane can retain cartilage building cells (e.g. MSCs) from bone marrow was published in 2006 by Kramer et al."

"The same author reported first clinical results with the AMIC technique in 2010."

"As further development to use of two-dimensional membranes, a chitosan-based three-dimensional liquid bio-scaffold (BST-CarGel) received the European CE mark approval in April 2012 as EU class III medical device according to the Directive 93/42/EEC."

all from:
Autologous matrix-induced chondrogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


How do you know about these procedures dragonfire?
Do you work in the field also? Do you know anyone who had these done?
These are not things you'd randomly come across, so I am eager to hear your experiences and insights.

Thanks a ton