Post AM Cardio - Fast or start meals

[G.I.Bro]

If optimal fat loss is the goal, what would you guys suggest from the options below. I'm starting my cutting, renewing that dreaded empty stomach A.M. cardio session. I am taking some GH (2iu AM 2iu PM), green tea, 11-oxo, E/C as soon as I rise. I then get on the treadmill about 10min later. I realize to optimize the benefit of the fatty acid release of GH, you should pin it then wait about an hour or so before cardio. I just dont have the time in my schedule with work. My real question is should I fast after the cardio to maximize fat burning/FFA use or go ahead and start in on the meals. Meal plan is 6x/day (2 of those shakes) 45g pro, 30g Cho, 10g fat.

Options:
1) Post AM Cardio - then shake w/ egg whites or BCAA only (no carbs) fast until Noon (4 hours), start meals.
2) Post AM Cardio - Nothing, fast until noon (4 hours).
3) Post AM Cardio - within 45min have first meal w/ macros from above.

I know its marginal and I'm not trying to mind fuck it. But it seems to me the best thing to do would be option 1. Pro/egg whites. Keep insulin from spiking, stay in that fat burning mode. Let the GH optimize use/release of FFA. Dont elevate insulin with carbs. Even BCAA immediately after cardio would spike insulin more than protein+whites because BCAA are VERY insulinogenic which a lot of guys seem to not understand. Leucine results in a response damn near pure glucose.

I realize if bulking, you would want to get a meal is ASAP. But I just want to lean up fast without losing a ton of muscle. On AAS obviously.

 

[Ironman2010]

If optimal fat loss is the goal, what would you guys suggest from the options below. I'm starting my cutting, renewing that dreaded empty stomach A.M. cardio session. I am taking some GH (2iu AM 2iu PM), green tea, 11-oxo, E/C as soon as I rise. I then get on the treadmill about 10min later. I realize to optimize the benefit of the fatty acid release of GH, you should pin it then wait about an hour or so before cardio. I just dont have the time in my schedule with work. My real question is should I fast after the cardio to maximize fat burning/FFA use or go ahead and start in on the meals. Meal plan is 6x/day (2 of those shakes) 45g pro, 30g Cho, 10g fat.

Options:
1) Post AM Cardio - then shake w/ egg whites or BCAA only (no carbs) fast until Noon (4 hours), start meals.
2) Post AM Cardio - Nothing, fast until noon (4 hours).
3) Post AM Cardio - within 45min have first meal w/ macros from above.

I know its marginal and I'm not trying to mind fuck it. But it seems to me the best thing to do would be option 1. Pro/egg whites. Keep insulin from spiking, stay in that fat burning mode. Let the GH optimize use/release of FFA. Dont elevate insulin with carbs. Even BCAA immediately after cardio would spike insulin more than protein+whites because BCAA are VERY insulinogenic which a lot of guys seem to not understand. Leucine results in a response damn near pure glucose.

I realize if bulking, you would want to get a meal is ASAP. But I just want to lean up fast without losing a ton of muscle. On AAS obviously.

Honestly buddy, think your over complicating shit way to much

I have done the following with absolutely no problem, and achieved fat loss brilliantly

Wake up take fat burning tablets, 5 mins later Pin GH, wait about 10 minutes do cardio. Eat after cardio, and then just eat every 2.30-3 hours like normal

 

[sammy555]

Wait 60-90 minutes for gh to liberate ffa. Staying fasted for a few hours after will give you a small edge but we're splitting hairs hear. Unless your nearing a competition and struggling really not worth the hassle. Even fasted cardio not worth the hassle until your real lean. Even then science tends to suggest there is no overall advantage to fat loss doing it fasted over fed. My personal belive is that when you get real lean lipolysis might become the bottle neck and it may be beneficial. Even then it's hard to prove one way of the other. If your not single digit body fat just do it when ever you want to burn some calories. Even if youve eaten a load of carbs 20 minutes before and spiked insulin you will still create an energy deficit which needs to be paid back later in the day. Eat your macros when ever you want.

Edit. Just noticed the bit about no time to pin gh an hour pre. This being the case a few hours fasted after is a good idea as gh and fasting go together very very well. On gh and gear you will not lose muscle doing this

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[ajdos]

Ironman hit it on the head, overcomplicating and overthinking it.

I have seen umteen debates about BCAA's or protien before cardio and have yet to see one iota of difference between the two groups on fat loss or muscle preservation.

My routine was like ironmans.
Get up, drink two cups black coffee. Take fat burners peptides/GH.
Cardio, come back BCAA's- cook, eat, slin.

 

[sammy555]

I have seen umteen debates about BCAA's or protien before cardio and have yet to see one iota of difference between the two groups on fat loss or muscle preservation.

This. Your still burning calories either way. I like fed cardio as I tend to up the pace a little and burn more calories. If I didnt love eating so much I wouldn't even do cardio.


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[G.I.Bro]

Wait 60-90 minutes for gh to liberate ffa. Staying fasted for a few hours after will give you a small edge but we're splitting hairs hear. Unless your nearing a competition and struggling really not worth the hassle. Even fasted cardio not worth the hassle until your real lean. Even then science tends to suggest there is no overall advantage to fat loss doing it fasted over fed. My personal belive is that when you get real lean lipolysis might become the bottle neck and it may be beneficial. Even then it's hard to prove one way of the other. If your not single digit body fat just do it when ever you want to burn some calories. Even if youve eaten a load of carbs 20 minutes before and spiked insulin you will still create an energy deficit which needs to be paid back later in the day. Eat your macros when ever you want.

Edit. Just noticed the bit about no time to pin gh an hour pre. This being the case a few hours fasted after is a good idea as gh and fasting go together very very well. On gh and gear you will not lose muscle doing this

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I know, probably splitting hairs. Just want to make the most of the GH. Shits expensive! I really cant even validate buying it. I dont even compete or aspire to, lol.

So you guys dont even really think fasted cardio is all that much better for fat loss? It seems almost universally accepted (broscience) that fasted morning cardio results in quicker fat loss but I agree there is no real seminal study supporting it that I have seen. It would certainly be more convenient to just do it post workout in the evening. Nobody things fasted AM cardio is worth it?

 

[ajdos]

I know, probably splitting hairs. Just want to make the most of the GH. Shits expensive! I really cant even validate buying it. I dont compete and my physique is mediocre compared to most of you, lol.

So you guys dont even really think fasted cardio is all that much better for fat loss? It seems almost universally accepted (broscience) that fasted morning cardio results in quicker fat loss but I agree there is no real seminal study supporting it that I have seen. It would certainly be more convenient to just do it post workout in the evening. Nobody things fasted AM cardio is worth it?

I have seen so many nast debates about ye or ne, and I have been embroiled in them myself. Still no evidence that I have seen that really says one works better over the other. I do fasted. Thats me.
I have seen all the pub med and science docs to make me sick, but what I dont see is one bodybuilder saying hes doing it one way and getting better results than another bodybuilder doing it the other way.
I think what sammy said is right, its just personal preference.
The GH or peptide thing, greatly enhances the fat loss effect that I can say is real.

 

[sammy555]

I know, probably splitting hairs. Just want to make the most of the GH. Shits expensive! I really cant even validate buying it. I dont even compete or aspire to, lol.

So you guys dont even really think fasted cardio is all that much better for fat loss? It seems almost universally accepted (broscience) that fasted morning cardio results in quicker fat loss but I agree there is no real seminal study supporting it that I have seen. It would certainly be more convenient to just do it post workout in the evening. Nobody things fasted AM cardio is worth it?

I totally understand wanting to maximise your gh and for this reason I some times do a little fasted cardio. Try this though just as an eye opener. When your about 200g of carbs into the day. Ie after meal 4 0r 5 depending on macros or on a reefed day if your a low carb guy, wait about 20 minutes or so for food to start digesting ( timing don't matter just make sure there's a good few carbs in the system) you'll notice your body temp and heart rate goes a lot higher than fasted cardio. Some belive for this reason that fed cardio actually burns more fat and the insulin present will protect muscle. ( I personally think we worry about the whole muscle loss thing far to much, if you hold strength you hold muscle regardless of fasted cardio). The fact they still argue about it to this day says to me there ain't a lot in it either way, not enough to worry about. I like post workout my self as it's easy to fit into my schedule and I'm well caffinated and in my zone.

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[G.I.Bro]

I totally understand wanting to maximise your gh and for this reason I some times do a little fasted cardio. Try this though just as an eye opener. When your about 200g of carbs into the day. Ie after meal 4 0r 5 depending on macros or on a reefed day if your a low carb guy, wait about 20 minutes or so for food to start digesting ( timing don't matter just make sure there's a good few carbs in the system) you'll notice your body temp and heart rate goes a lot higher than fasted cardio. Some belive for this reason that fed cardio actually burns more fat and the insulin present will protect muscle. ( I personally think we worry about the whole muscle loss thing far to much, if you hold strength you hold muscle regardless of fasted cardio). The fact they still argue about it to this day says to me there ain't a lot in it either way, not enough to worry about. I like post workout my self as it's easy to fit into my schedule and I'm well caffinated and in my zone.

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Oh god damn you are making just doing Post workout cardio sound SOOOO compelling right now. I hate getting up earlier to do cardio too. I'm questioning it more now for sure. A lot of the BROSCIENCE dogma is that there is nothing better than fasted morning cardio for burning fat. Hard to break away from that.

 

[Gear-Unlimited-Pharm]

I always workout on an empty stomach and do a cardio workout then following do a 30min cardio session then eat 30 min later
I take ECA first thing in the morning so it keeps me going and the fat melts off

 

[juggy38]

I think carbless cardio is a nice middle ground. Pin peptides, eat a little protein, or bcaa/EAA, get after the cardio.


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[sammy555]

I think carbless cardio is a nice middle ground. Pin peptides, eat a little protein, or bcaa/EAA, get after the cardio.


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I train carbles so I guess you'd call my post workout cargo carbles/ semi fasted as there is still some protein and fats floating around

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[RichDC2]

In a little over a year I dropped 90lb with a protocol extremely similar to what you outlined. Wake up gh, right to cardio right to a meal, if I had time and it was in my macros for the day it was an egg meal, if I'am training I have a shake pre wo drink then to gym.
If gh to expensive dont do it IMO it good but the dollar to result ratio is just not there escpecially for fat loss. A clen/t3 combo once in awhile on and off is wayy more effective and cheaper. And consider the gh climate these days

 

[sammy555]

In a little over a year I dropped 90lb with a protocol extremely similar to what you outlined. Wake up gh, right to cardio right to a meal, if I had time and it was in my macros for the day it was an egg meal, if I'am training I have a shake pre wo drink then to gym.
If gh to expensive dont do it IMO it good but the dollar to result ratio is just not there escpecially for fat loss. A clen/t3 combo once in awhile on and off is wayy more effective and cheaper. And consider the gh climate these days

I personally don't rate gh for fat loss, it doesn't speed up metabolism as such. It's awesome for muscle retention though or staying lean when bulking. I love gh and gh peptides, just don't see much benefit for fat loss

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[G.I.Bro]

I personally don't rate gh for fat loss, it doesn't speed up metabolism as such. It's awesome for muscle retention though or staying lean when bulking. I love gh and gh peptides, just don't see much benefit for fat loss

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I agree. People I talk to seem to say it shines for staying lean when in a calorie surplus. I am also taking t3 and clen. ;-)

 

[G.I.Bro]

I train carbles so I guess you'd call my post workout cargo carbles/ semi fasted as there is still some protein and fats floating around

So if you prefer to train carbless, why not a proponent of fasted cardio? Do you train carbless because you get sluggish and tired with carbs? I've heard some say they get better intensity/focus with no carbs pre. Ben Pakulski is probably one of the more famous proponents of no carbs pre-training that comes to mind. He pretty much eats meat/veg his first few meals before training then does carbs in the post training meals. I believe if its a real long/intense workout he will have some quick digesting INTRA carbs only. I found it interesting that such a mass monster would choose to be carbless for a good half of his day.

[ame]http://youtu.be/WPIWsQhZ9CM[/ame]

 

[beastmode121]

Bro; you're over complicating it; it doesn't matter; just do the cardio; eat afterwards normally like you do... don't over think it and stress over simple things


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[sammy555]

So if you prefer to train carbless, why not a proponent of fasted cardio? Do you train carbless because you get sluggish and tired with carbs? I've heard some say they get better intensity/focus with no carbs pre. Ben Pakulski is probably one of the more famous proponents of no carbs pre-training that comes to mind. He pretty much eats meat/veg his first few meals before training then does carbs in the post training meals. I believe if its a real long/intense workout he will have some quick digesting INTRA carbs only. I found it interesting that such a mass monster would choose to be carbless for a good half of his day.

http://youtu.be/WPIWsQhZ9CM

I'm stronger and more intense carbles. That's the only reason. Train cables year round. I've read that insulin can dull the cns. I eat how ever I feel I'm going to the the best workout. If it meant lots of carbs I'd do it but that doesn't work well for me. Cardio is easier with carbs though for sure. I'm not a big believer in cardio for fat loss anyway. It's just a bit more time in the gym im not thinking about eating lol. I'm less likly to cheat also when I've spent 30 minutes doing cardio as I want to get to the point I can stop doing our ASAP haha.

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[Uncle Z Rep]

Do fasted cardiovascular then eat a meal. Take gh with it also.

 

[Marky Boy]

Personally for convenience I would:

Wake up
Pin GH
Do cardio 10mins after jab
Shower then eat