Steroids and cognitive deficits

[ionian]

From a post on getbig:

Elevated Testosterone Induces Apoptosis in Neuronal Cells

Cognitive deficits in long-term anabolic-androgenic steroid users

Cliffs:
(1) Supraphysiological testosterone levels induces brain cell death
(2)Long term (> 2 years) AAS use results in reduced visuospatial memory

So the question is, anyone know bodybuilders (or yourself) who have had negative mental changes as a result of AAS use? Anectodally, I know some guys who are fine, but there are also those rambling incoherent 50+ yr old juicers (but maybe they were incoherent to begin with)

 

[Myself]

From a post on getbig:

Elevated Testosterone Induces Apoptosis in Neuronal Cells

Cognitive deficits in long-term anabolic-androgenic steroid users

Cliffs:
(1) Supraphysiological testosterone levels induces brain cell death
(2)Long term (> 2 years) AAS use results in reduced visuospatial memory

So the question is, anyone know bodybuilders (or yourself) who have had negative mental changes as a result of AAS use? Anectodally, I know some guys who are fine, but there are also those rambling incoherent 50+ yr old juicers (but maybe they were incoherent to begin with)

Wherever you found this BS is quite funny!! I'm 60 years old and won't stop until I die! Working on over '60 comp!!!

 

[kinglewy]

I will say that when I pushed eq up to the 1gram/wk stage for a brief time I did feel "foggy" brained all the time. Even with a baby aspirin a day. I didnt get the headaches that others do but felt like I was constantly in a haze.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Wherever you found this BS is quite funny!! I'm 60 years old and won't stop until I die! Working on over '60 comp!!!

Is not BS, and you don`t have to stop, just take enough to kip your test level in a normal high range.

 

[Serotonin]

Well this certainly concerns me.

Looks like that second study is more detailed. Its showing long term AAS use may have an effect on one's visuospatial memory. Its not conclusive, but its for sure a possibility.

The first study doesn't really state which areas of the brain are most effected. Just that it seems elevated levels of testosterone end up causing braincell death. Looks like there might be a few ways to negate the side effects if you really wanted to.

Anyone have any more info on this? Pretty skeptical but it does raise some flags.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Well this certainly concerns me.

Looks like that second study is more detailed. Its showing long term AAS use may have an effect on one's visuospatial memory. Its not conclusive, but its for sure a possibility.

The first study doesn't really state which areas of the brain are most effected. Just that it seems elevated levels of testosterone end up causing braincell death. Looks like there might be a few ways to negate the side effects if you really wanted to.

Anyone have any more info on this? Pretty skeptical but it does raise some flags.

Steroids have been found to be extremely addictive, and can lead to a progression of higher dosages and more exotic combinations when the initial muscle building effects are no longer achieved.

During anabolic/androgenic steroid cycles many essential amino acids that are targeted for the brain, which assist in the formation of neuro-transmitters, an example: epinephrine and norepinephrine, serotonin and cholecystokinin) are inhibited or blocked totally.

The researchers showed that high levels of testosterone triggered programmed cell death in nerve cells in culture. Cell death, or apoptosis, is critical in many life processes, including development and disease. It is characterized by membrane instability, activation of caspases, which are the executioner proteins in apoptosis, change in membrane potential, and DNA fragmentation. Normal concentrations of testosterone had no effects on cell viability, whereas at high concentrations the cell viability decreased with incremental increases in hormone concentration.

In the present study was demonstrated for the first time that the treatment of neuroblastoma cells with elevated concentrations of testosterone for relatively short periods, six to 12 hours, induces a decrease in cell viability by activation of a cell death program," Ehrlich said.

The testosterone-induced apoptosis described in this study occurs through overactivation of intracellular Ca2+ signaling pathways. Overstimulation of the apoptotic program in neurons has been associated with several neurological illnesses, such as Alzheimer disease, Huntington disease and Parkinson's.

The good news is that you can kip it under control by taking supplements that are able to help the body to regenerate brain cells (neurons) and by not taking mega doses of androgens.

 

[Serotonin]

Steroids have been found to be extremely addictive, and can lead to a progression of higher dosages and more exotic combinations when the initial muscle building effects are no longer achieved.

During anabolic/androgenic steroid cycles many essential amino acids that are targeted for the brain, which assist in the formation of neuro-transmitters, an example: epinephrine and norepinephrine, serotonin and cholecystokinin) are inhibited or blocked totally.

The researchers showed that high levels of testosterone triggered programmed cell death in nerve cells in culture. Cell death, or apoptosis, is critical in many life processes, including development and disease. It is characterized by membrane instability, activation of caspases, which are the executioner proteins in apoptosis, change in membrane potential, and DNA fragmentation. Normal concentrations of testosterone had no effects on cell viability, whereas at high concentrations the cell viability decreased with incremental increases in hormone concentration.

In the present study was demonstrated for the first time that the treatment of neuroblastoma cells with elevated concentrations of testosterone for relatively short periods, six to 12 hours, induces a decrease in cell viability by activation of a cell death program," Ehrlich said.

The testosterone-induced apoptosis described in this study occurs through overactivation of intracellular Ca2+ signaling pathways. Overstimulation of the apoptotic program in neurons has been associated with several neurological illnesses, such as Alzheimer disease, Huntington disease and Parkinson's.

The good news is that you can kip it under control by taking supplements that are able to help the body to regenerate brain cells (neurons) and by not taking mega doses of androgens.

Thanks for taking the time to write out such detailed response. What supplements to you recommend if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Stewie]

With all due respect to Emeric. He didn't write that out. With that said, I would believe he (Emeric) understands what the author [PhD] was referring facts, suggesting and hypothesizing his ideas as.

Thanks for taking the time to write out such detailed response. What supplements to you recommend if you don't mind me asking?

 

[ionian]

With all due respect to Emeric. He didn't write that out. With that said, I would believe he (Emeric) understands what the author [PhD] was referring facts, suggesting and hypothesizing his ideas as.

What do you think of this? Was about to start a test cycle but held off because of this. Don't want to kill my brain in the pursuit of muscles haha

 

[Stewie]

What do I think...?

I believe when we breach our own genetic setpoint, from physiological levels too supraphysiological levels of any given hormone. We are now targeting our physiology in a way it wasn't meant to be targeted. Usually, there's nothing that comes from this.

Take notice of where I stated our own genetic setpoint. Everyone will react differently, with the potential for the same outcome.

I personally know two gentlemen that have abused AAS over twenty years. Their cognitive function has declined over time. They may not be aware of it. I certainly can tell.

What do you think of this? Was about to start a test cycle but held off because of this. Don't want to kill my brain in the pursuit of muscles haha

 

[ryanbCXG]

What do I think...?

I believe when we breach our own genetic setpoint, from physiological levels too supraphysiological levels of any given hormone. We are now targeting our physiology in a way it wasn't meant to be targeted. Usually, there's nothing that comes from this.

Take notice of where I stated our own genetic setpoint. Everyone will react differently, with the potential for the same outcome.

I personally know two gentlemen that have abused AAS over twenty years. Their cognitive function has declined over time. They may not be aware of it. I certainly can tell.

The thought has to be in place that maybe their cognitive function would be declining with or without AAS and if they are just susceptible to accelerated decline from AAS or other factors

 

[Area-1255]

Steroids themselves don't negatively affect cognitive function...DHT and it's most androgenic analogues have a positive effect on neurite/synapse growth and increase analytical/strategic thinking. (1) (2) (3)
If anything, it's the Estrogen imbalances or corresponding adrenaline overload that can cause cognitive deficits, on gear or off.

 

[mewalrus]

Steroids themselves don't negatively affect cognitive function...DHT and it's most androgenic analogues have a positive effect on neurite/synapse growth and increase analytical/strategic thinking. (1) (2) (3)
If anything, it's the Estrogen imbalances or corresponding adrenaline overload that can cause cognitive deficits, on gear or off.

meaning stress and anxiety fry your brain....?

 

[emeric delczeg]

With all due respect to Emeric. He didn't write that out. With that said, I would believe he (Emeric) understands what the author [PhD] was referring facts, suggesting and hypothesizing his ideas as.

Yes, I did not write that.
A Yale School of Medicine study shows for the first time that a high level of testosterone, such as that caused by the use of steroids to increase muscle mass, can lead to a catastrophic loss of brain cells.

Also after the fall of communism in Europe, East Germany physicians released volumes of research on ten's of thousands of athletes on the negative effects of steroid that was compiled over a 40 year period.

 

[emeric delczeg]

What do I think...?

I believe when we breach our own genetic setpoint, from physiological levels too supraphysiological levels of any given hormone. We are now targeting our physiology in a way it wasn't meant to be targeted. Usually, there's nothing that comes from this.

Take notice of where I stated our own genetic setpoint. Everyone will react differently, with the potential for the same outcome.

I personally know two gentlemen that have abused AAS over twenty years. Their cognitive function has declined over time. They may not be aware of it. I certainly can tell.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Area-1255]

meaning stress and anxiety fry your brain....?

That's partly it, or just that people overlook E2/Adrenaline imbalances caused by the amount of synthetic chemicals they are injecting.
Both low estro and high estro cause adrenaline dominance, but in slightly different ways. Too much adrenaline means little parasympathetic activity - which leads to obstructed clarity and free thought.

 

[Stewie]

I do understand the point you are conveying. I absolutely wouldn't leave out the importance of other factors. With that said, I have known both of these gentlemen's families and their siblings and parents as well ones grandparents. I can confidentiality say without a doubt their cognitive function has declined in comparisons to their family members. Its not just AAS that they have abused. This is what's of importance when this type of discussion is discussed. Both of them I'm sure have untreated OSA. This in it of itself, will cause cognitive disorders.

With that said, I also know of a gentleman that owns a multi-million dollar company. Back in the late 70's and 80's ran several moderately heavy cycles. In comparison of today's standards of some cycles I see people purportedly running. His cycles are mild in comparisons. Regardless. Again its relative to multiple factors, yet pushing the envelope with continual supraphysiological levels of several hormones. I'm sure isn't a null point.

The thought has to be in place that maybe their cognitive function would be declining with or without AAS and if they are just susceptible to accelerated decline from AAS or other factors

What do I think...?

I believe when we breach our own genetic setpoint, from physiological levels too supraphysiological levels of any given hormone. We are now targeting our physiology in a way it wasn't meant to be targeted. Usually, there's nothing Good that comes from this.

Take notice of where I stated our own genetic setpoint. Everyone will react differently, with the potential for the same outcome.

I personally know two gentlemen that have abused AAS over twenty years. Their cognitive function has declined over time. They may not be aware of it. I certainly can tell.

Left out the bold in my previous first paragraph.

 

[Area-1255]

I do understand the point you are conveying. I absolutely wouldn't leave out the importance of other factors. With that said, I have known both of these gentlemen's families and their siblings and parents as well ones grandparents. I can confidentiality say without a doubt their cognitive function has declined in comparisons to their family members. Its not just AAS that they have abused. This is what's of importance when this type of discussion is discussed. Both of them I'm sure have untreated OSA. This in it of itself, will cause cognitive disorders.

With that said, I also know of a gentleman that owns a multi-million dollar company. Back in the late 70's and 80's ran several moderately heavy cycles. In comparison of today's standards of some cycles I see people purportedly running. His cycles are mild in comparisons. Regardless. Again its relative to multiple factors, yet pushing the envelope with continual supraphysiological levels of several hormones. I'm sure isn't a null point.





Left out the bold in my previous first paragraph.

Yeah - and supraphysiological levels often lead to E2/Adrenaline issues.

Also may wear adrenal glands over time, especially considering that Test directly opposes cortisol - and ESPECIALLY DHT analogues.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

this is interesting......

my brain capacity and efficiency only gets better as i age. to be fair i do have selective memory issues, but my father also did at my age and got worse in time so.....

i write everything down lol

 

[Area-1255]

this is interesting......

my brain capacity and efficiency only gets better as i age. to be fair i do have selective memory issues, but my father also did at my age and got worse in time so.....

i write everything down lol

There is one negative of super high levels of Test in terms of cognitive function, but it is irrelevant if you are generally healthy. The neg is that Testosterone or it's metabolites, may amplify lead toxicity.
In terms of cell death / apoptosis - this is likely an effect of ESTRADIOL, and NOT the androgens DHT etc
Because DHT decreases glutamate levels and enhances GABA - as written and referenced in my DHT and the brain article. Thus DHT would reduce Ca2+...in which case the logical reference is the pro histamine, pro glutamatergic brain T = estradiol is causing the cytotox/cell death.
Unfortunately, the specific metabolites aren't always tested properly, and so testosterone gets erroneously lumped into effects that are actually the results of other forms of it.

Hypogonadism in chronically lead-poisoned men. [Infertility. 1978] - PubMed - NCBI
Elevated testosterone induces apoptosis in neuro... [J Biol Chem. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI
**broken link removed**
Males - Heavy Metal and Violence
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/12/how-testosterone-may-alter-the-brain-after-exercise/
Area-1255: EXCLUSIVE : The What & The How of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) in the Brain
**broken link removed**