Life after competative body building....what's next?

[Dr_Bob]

Note: It will take multiple posts to make my argument, probably over 2 days. If I stop, it means I have something else to do (like train my wife in 40 minutes). The topic will thus fill out over multiple posts. I will try an cover 1 main concept each post.

Having spent a while on this forum now, I have noticed a very distinct trend. Before discussing that trend it should be noted that this forum has the highest concentration of elite level body builders I have encountered on the net, or in life.

Having said that, I have noticed a trend here. To illustrate, there was a thread about when someone realized they would never be a top bodybuilder

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...ou-realize-you-never-top-pro-bodybuilder.html.

The overall tone of the argument is that they were failures at the sport and the gold standard was an IFBB pro card. I disagree strongly. The participants in that thread were any thing but failures, they were champions. Posters fell in love with bodybuilding and did amazing things. They just did not realize it.

Many won tough local and regional contests. They were NPC champions.

Think about that fact this way: For every 10-20 guys/gals that step into the gym, 1 will still be training a year later. For every 10 left, 1 will make the kind of progress needed to even contemplate competing. Out of ten of those, 1 will make it to the stage. Out of 10 of those, one will become a champion.

Viewed as such, it becomes clear that a win, even a class win makes you an exceptional person. You are a true champion.

The next year you go to nationals and end up 13th. The next year, you break the top 10. The next year you place eleventh. Clearly, you are not getting a pro card.

Since the card was your dream, you see your self a a loser.

That is 100% wrong!!! you are a champion, you just were not one of the 1 in 50k who had pro genetics.

Nonetheless, your training loses focus. Your intensity is down. You start missing workouts. Eventually you stop training altogether, and view bodybuilding as a waste of your life.

You could not possibly be more wrong!!! You re a champion, and nothing can ever take that away. You just need some new goals. Furthermore, you will keep a large amount of your size and strength AND develop new goals.

Finally, you will be healthier. That will be the topic of the next section.

 

[Dr_Bob]

OK (wife fell asleep) in the next section, we will pick our new challenge, examine our health, and change our training.

My experience has been in martial arts. Integrating them into your workout program has enumerable benefits. Having said that, you are free to pick your new sport. It just has to be cardio intensive. For example a friend loves racquetball. For bigger and older guys it is probably too hard on the knees and ankles. For him it is great, he plays 3 times a week.

AS mentioned, my background is in M Arts. There are several good choices. I recommend boxing/kickboxing/MThai first, then BJJ grappling next..

Before starting, you need to be sure you are healthy enough. Weight training enlarges the heart. Steroids enlarge the heart. Cardio enlarges the heart. I weigh 50 lbs more than my body was meant to weigh, and the heart has to work harder. 50 lbs of extra muscle needs feeding.

An enlarged heart is not automatically bad. If it is caused by HIT cardio, you are healthy. If it is caused by steroids, then you need to really dig into everything. Start with your F P doc and then a cardiologists. Testing is expensive, but worth it.

In my case, enlargement was from runners heart (cardio) I have always done lots of cardio, especially HIT.

I have been doing super-set style routines way before there was Crossfit, but the concept is the same: We push our cardio HARD. Again, be sure you are healthy. We will increase intensity over time.

 

[ajdos]

Like the post Doc....I think about this a lot now that I no longer compete.

I still train and train like I did before, I don't know how else to go to a gym, I can't just go in and fart around. I am focusing more on helping others. Most people in my gym have come to me for my experience I also have worked for and am currently employed by one of many of the supplement stores in the area. So people have come to rely on my experiences and now Im beginning to actually help people with their bodybuilding goals. I hate the word coach, but essentially its what Im transitioning into.
I have a number of clients, 2 who compete, and I live vicariously through them with competitive urges so to speak.
I still love the sport and want to be involved but the time for abusing my health in order to win a trophy is over-that being said I still love the challenge of building my body and keeping myself looking fit.
I think I fall into the category somewhat as you described in your OP. I competed, 2x's at National Level, didn't do very well but when I look back on it, at that time going to the National Level was something that wasn't THAT easy.
I managed to qualify 2x's, once as a heavy, once as a super.
I was no pro, and you are right that is the benchmark for success, I think most view anything less as failure.
Bodybuilding is a tough sport in that respect....
The future for me is to eventually become a successful trainer for competitive bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts.
Bodybuilding is my passion and if I cannot compete then I will help those who can.

 

[Dr_Bob]

Next, we will need an uncrowded gym. This is the tricky part, as it is very difficult to do these routines if space is limited. It would take me several pages to explain how we deal w/ this issue, so I am just going straight to the workout.

Here is the back/trap/rear delt routine. After 2-3 warm up sets of rowing, I go to a weight I can get 14 reps at failure on wide grip rows. With no rest I go narrow grip. Back and forth I go completing 3 working sets wide, 3 narrow.

Next, 4 sets of lat pulldows wide, 3 narrow. No rest.

Next, 4 sets of dumbell shrugs, no rest. I am gasping for air barely able to walk but I jog over to the treadmill. I walk at a high incline (10) at 3.7 mph. I get a heart reading, usually close to 140 (84% of V02max). I jog for 20 seconds and hit 145 (close to 90%, I am 52). Each treadmill visit is about 2 minutes.

I then go back and forth between the treadmill and the dumbell rack, doing 4 sets of bent over dumbell rows. Finally, I do a rotator cuff exercise.

At this point, my heart has been elevated for about 26-27 minutes. I then finish with 5 more minutes on the treadmill mostly warming down.


Very important: You need to be healthy to train this way. Also, gradually work up. Mayb start with 30 seconds per exorcize and titrate those 30 seconds down for 2-3 week

 

[Dr_Bob]

After 3-4 weeks of this ^ type of training, we are ready to pick our new sport.

It should be noted, I did not lose any size/strength from the no rest workouts. In fact, my muscles seem fuller.

I recommend Boxing/Kick boxing/ Muay Thai (IE striking arts). If you start at say, BJJ, it is going to be rough. Must devoted BJJ practitioners got into the sport because they tended to be smaller and weaker than their cohorts. You probably look like some bully they hated. That means you will have a target on your back and these little guys are going to bring it. Ego's are going to kick in. Not good.

Instead, we will start with a striking art. There is no way to train BJJ without live active grappling. In striking, we have pads. You should spend several months just doing pad/bagwork. After a while you should start controlled sparring. Where I stared (Ghetto in upstate NY) we were going to war after 6 months. I would prefer that you not start all out sparring until the 9th month mark. After 1 year, you will have a solid base in striking.

Then you can move onto BJJ. After a year of striking, you will have a better understanding of the learning process, so you will know that it is perfectly OK to get tapped, lose in sparring. The street is a different story. Save the all out fight until then.

The image we have of the 60 year old 140 lb Kung Fu expert easily besting 10 200 lb guys is fiction. Size and strength matter, that is why the UFC has weight divisions. Down the road you will beat guys that tapped you when you were new, so don't worry about it.

OK, wife is up and I am off to the gym. I will fill out the argument some more later. In the meantime, please feel free to comment.

 

[Dr_Bob]

Thank you. Just to be clear, bodybuilding is my first love. I still lift 4 days a week, harder than most of the young bucks. I think my other posts (made after yours) emphasize that fact. The key, and this is not easy to figure out, is to structure things so that you do not overtrain.

I use gear to speed recovery. I am 228 and have no plans of getting bigger.


It is awesome that you are helping to prep. It is, at least for me, not lucrative. I spend a lot of time holding hands.

Like the post Doc....I think about this a lot now that I no longer compete.

I still train and train like I did before, I don't know how else to go to a gym, I can't just go in and fart around. I am focusing more on helping others. Most people in my gym have come to me for my experience I also have worked for and am currently employed by one of many of the supplement stores in the area. So people have come to rely on my experiences and now Im beginning to actually help people with their bodybuilding goals. I hate the word coach, but essentially its what Im transitioning into.
I have a number of clients, 2 who compete, and I live vicariously through them with competitive urges so to speak.
I still love the sport and want to be involved but the time for abusing my health in order to win a trophy is over-that being said I still love the challenge of building my body and keeping myself looking fit.
I think I fall into the category somewhat as you described in your OP. I competed, 2x's at National Level, didn't do very well but when I look back on it, at that time going to the National Level was something that wasn't THAT easy.
I managed to qualify 2x's, once as a heavy, once as a super.
I was no pro, and you are right that is the benchmark for success, I think most view anything less as failure.
Bodybuilding is a tough sport in that respect....
The future for me is to eventually become a successful trainer for competitive bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts.
Bodybuilding is my passion and if I cannot compete then I will help those who can.

 

[Aliendogstar]

The title of your thread is "Life After Competitive Bodybuilding". A recurring theme for those that have found success elsewhere is / was to apply the same level of dedication, determination, and perseverance to your next endeavor...whatever that may be. Similar to what Doc said, I don't think somebody has to achieve pro card level or even win a single show to have that winning spirit. Incredible work ethic, seeks continuous improvement, self motivated and influential to others. In addition to bodybuilding, these are qualities that are required to succeed in any field.

 

[Dr_Bob]

The title of your thread is "Life After Competitive Bodybuilding". A recurring theme for those that have found success elsewhere is / was to apply the same level of dedication, determination, and perseverance to your next endeavor...whatever that may be. Similar to what Doc said, I don't think somebody has to achieve pro card level or even win a single show to have that winning spirit. Incredible work ethic, seeks continuous improvement, self motivated and influential to others. In addition to bodybuilding, these are qualities that are required to succeed in any field.

Correct, plus 1.

Another variable is that many of us suffer from body dis morphia. I know I do. Never think I am big/strong enough etc.

The beauty of martial arts is that I know after 2 years of the training I advocate at low dosage cycles, I might be 20 lbs lighter than I was 2 years ago, but in a self defense situation, I would best my bigger self.

I admit, this attitude is somewhat childish, and should not be our reason for training. The true martial artists AVOIDS a fight.

But it does reside in my brain and makes it easy to let go of that 20 lbs.

 

[Geoffke]

Pornstar?

 

[Geoffke]

Muay thai is a great sport.
I did it for 10 years and I do miss it.
I'm going to start again.
It has saved my life or a serious beating MANY times.
Last time I got jumped by 5 polish drunks as a bouncer and kicked there asses.


And it's such a cheap sport , bodybuilding is so damn expensive

 

[Dr_Bob]

Muay thai is a great sport.
I did it for 10 years and I do miss it.
I'm going to start again.
It has saved my life or a serious beating MANY times.
Last time I got jumped by 5 polish drunks as a bouncer and kicked there asses.


And it's such a cheap sport , bodybuilding is so damn expensive

The conditioning in MT is intense. If I could only pick one striking art, it would be MT. They call it 8 limbs for a reason (fists, elbows, knees kicks). A little boxing will really tie your game together.

Just look out for the Dutch, arguably the best kick boxers on the planet. The Dutch have the best big guys (like Rheem) and the Thais the best little guys.

Having said that, you have 10 years in....sounds like it is time for some cross training. Wrestling will help ensure that you can keep the fight off the ground. Wrestling is dangerous, a lot of bad things can happen when you get tossed on your head. You would want to focus on take-down defense (which requires, IMO, that you can also take someone else down.

I wrestled in high school, and my first Grappling school had phenomenal wrestling. We had several guys from the mid west. One guy was a Michigan state champion. He weighed 170 and I weighed 220. We would be even, if we did 10 takedowns, he would get 5 and I would get 5. He was one scrappy Mo Fo.

I mention that, because some of the inflexible TMA guys still insist that their "magical' anti grappling defense will keep the fight on the feet. And newer arts like Krav Maga (good in many ways, but bad in others) will somehow stay on the feet.

That is silly. Take an 8 year old farm boy who wrestles through to college.

If he learns some striking, trust me, he WILL take you to the ground. He spent 14 years in one of the toughest sports on the planet.

 

[nothuman]

OK (wife fell asleep) in the next section, we will pick our new challenge, examine our health, and change our training.

My experience has been in martial arts. Integrating them into your workout program has enumerable benefits. Having said that, you are free to pick your new sport. It just has to be cardio intensive. For example a friend loves racquetball. For bigger and older guys it is probably too hard on the knees and ankles. For him it is great, he plays 3 times a week.

AS mentioned, my background is in M Arts. There are several good choices. I recommend boxing/kickboxing/MThai first, then BJJ grappling next..

Before starting, you need to be sure you are healthy enough. Weight training enlarges the heart. Steroids enlarge the heart. Cardio enlarges the heart. I weigh 50 lbs more than my body was meant to weigh, and the heart has to work harder. 50 lbs of extra muscle needs feeding.

An enlarged heart is not automatically bad. If it is caused by HIT cardio, you are healthy. If it is caused by steroids, then you need to really dig into everything. Start with your F P doc and then a cardiologists. Testing is expensive, but worth it.

In my case, enlargement was from runners heart (cardio) I have always done lots of cardio, especially HIT.

I have been doing super-set style routines way before there was Crossfit, but the concept is the same: We push our cardio HARD. Again, be sure you are healthy. We will increase intensity over time.

When you talk about an enlarged heart, are you specifically referring to the left ventricule or also the other dimensions (like the atriums, root, etc.)?

 

[Dr_Bob]

I probably should be more interested in my heart ( I could do a 300 page book on training, eating and steroid cycles...lol) but am a novice.

My last surgery (I like getting surgeries) in the pre-surgery work up the staff noticed the larger heart. I was then sent to a cardiologist. It is my understanding that Athletic heart is a healthy response to intense cardio/endurance activity, and sometimes to weight training. The left ventricle is enlarged. I do not know about the other dimensions. Here is the wiki article.:

**broken link removed**

An enlarged left ventrical, and lower resting pulse rate are, to my understanding, indicators of a "good" enlargement. My resting pulse rate is normal, not low. I think that is because I simply have way more body weight than my heart was originally designed to handle. If I never touched a weight, and say just played basketball and trained in martial arts, I would probably be 170 lbs. My heart was designed for that guy, not a 230 lb guy. This is just very un-scientific speculation on my part, but it makes sense.

At the age of 51 I went on BP meds.

The cardiologist ( who was fat, BTW) just said to do more cardio and less weights. But it all kind of goes together now. I do straight sets of regular deadlifts, as they are a bit dangerous to superset, and straight regular mid and upper chest workouts. Everything else is supersetted. I do at least 30 minutes of cardio 6 days a week.

There have been some studies recently that the ability to do high intensity cardio for fairly long duration (say more than 20 minutes) is the best predictor of life span. Look at Helio Gracie, he was still rolling w/ his grand-kids at age 90.

Why so much cardio? The big first reason is my ego. I do not want to gas on the mat/in the ring and have my body used as a rag doll/punching bag.

I know, I know, I just preached about ego, but mine gets me in trouble all the time.

The second: We all know how hard bodybuilding is on the heart. 290 lb guy at 10% b. fat is winded climbing up a flight of stairs. I was out of the game (still lifted) for many years. I came back and OMFG, 2/3rds of the greats from my era late 80's early 90's) are dead!

I was told by Chris Duffy (yes THAT Chris Duffy) that rule #1 in bodybuilding is you must be willing to die and not fear death one tiny bit. I have 2 steel plates in my head, broken leg/ribs, multiple micro surgeries for facial lacerations, and currently a broken finger. I have memory issues from head shots. All thanks to Martial arts.

But honestly, body building is way, way more dangerous.

When you talk about an enlarged heart, are you specifically referring to the left ventricule or also the other dimensions (like the atriums, root, etc.)?

 

[Aliendogstar]

I was told by Chris Duffy (yes THAT Chris Duffy) that rule #1 in bodybuilding is you must be willing to die and not fear death one tiny bit.

That isn't someone that has made peace with death. That is someone that has never valued life. I'm not sure anyone would want to follow anything he has to say in a "Life after Bodybuilding" thread.

 

[malcom young]

Interesting thread, I'll be following.

With this being said, I'll assume that you've not ever trained at a BJJ gym, your understanding of the BJJ mindset is totally off.

Egos are checked at the door, very quickly, they are not tolerated,........period.

BJJ practitioners do not start training because they are weak, small and frail.


The fact is that the more muscular you are,......the quicker you quit. The attrition rate is super high, even more so for those that look like bodybuilders. This is a very humbling sport, getting your ass handed to you over and over by girls and smaller guys is tuff, you expect the big guys to thrash you, but when the guys that you out weigh by 50 - 80 lbs rag doll you, it's hard.

Most students are there for the battle, the war, the full out 100% effort, not because they are small and weak, tired of being picked on. The toughest guys are the ones that look the most unassuming. They are the guys that you don't think about as you push through a crowd,......it's these guys that will FUK you up the most, not the big buff guys; most can't fight to save their lives.

Youtube a pretty cool video, Bjj vs bodybuilder and see former Mr Utah gett his ego and ass broken by someone 100 lbs smaller.

Not flaming you, just pointing out your lack of understanding of what BJJ is and what it has to offer.

I look forward to the further installments of this.

 

[Dr_Bob]

Chris taught me everything I know about contest prep. He was smart and toured with the pros, so he knows what is up. He also, immediately after getting his pro card, became a gay pornstar. So yes, he is crazy.

His wife Joanie also helped me with my posing.

Thus, I don't care about other people judging Chris... all I care about was winning an important show, and Chris helped me tremendously. Remind me soon to tell the story about and Joanie 3 days out. I don't have time to put it up.

One time Chris was asked by one of the BB magazine guys why in the Hell he did what he did.

He responded "anyone with my nervous system would have done the same thing."

That isn't someone that has made peace with death. That is someone that has never valued life. I'm not sure anyone would want to follow anything he has to say in a "Life after Bodybuilding" thread.

 

[Dr_Bob]

Comments in bold

I taught for Renzo Gracie. I won multiple NAGA titles. I am now training with Professor Soliz I highly regarded black belt and one of the very few JKD instructors approved by Dan Inosant.

I trained with Ralph Gracie, at a Rickson school and with Cassio Wernecky. If I can relax my jui jitsu more, rely on muscle less, I will be picking up my purple soon. I also have a Black Belt in Japanese Jui-jitsu. I have a total of 14 years experience if you count high school wrestling. Over the last few years I have primarily only worked on my standup.

I have spent thousands of hours on the mat. My mindset is working on more flow (like water) less ego, and less muscle. That is the essence of BJJ.

100 years ago, Count Maeda a Japanese BB in both Jui-jitsu and Judo, was given political asylum by the Gracie family in Brazil.

In turn, he taught the Gracies JJJ. Helio turned it into a system where the smaller man can beat the larger man.

In any event, please be so kind as to explicate your definition of the BJJ mindset, and compare it to the historical facts. You do not understand the sport.

Interesting thread, I'll be following.

With this being said, I'll assume that you've not ever trained at a BJJ gym, your understanding of the BJJ mindset is totally off.

Egos are checked at the door, very quickly, they are not tolerated,........period.

BJJ practitioners do not start training because they are weak, small and frail.


The fact is that the more muscular you are,......the quicker you quit. The attrition rate is super high, even more so for those that look like bodybuilders. This is a very humbling sport, getting your ass handed to you over and over by girls and smaller guys is tuff, you expect the big guys to thrash you, but when the guys that you out weigh by 50 - 80 lbs rag doll you, it's hard.

Most students are there for the battle, the war, the full out 100% effort, not because they are small and weak, tired of being picked on. The toughest guys are the ones that look the most unassuming. They are the guys that you don't think about as you push through a crowd,......it's these guys that will FUK you up the most, not the big buff guys; most can't fight to save their lives.

Youtube a pretty cool video, Bjj vs bodybuilder and see former Mr Utah gett his ego and ass broken by someone 100 lbs smaller.

Not flaming you, just pointing out your lack of understanding of what BJJ is and what it has to offer.

I look forward to the further installments of this.

You are correct and also incorrect. My old school where I taught, we had guys come in who were just cut from the NY Giants footbal team. They are animals. Many came over to my school to do something new. They were beasts, but I of course tapped them left and right. However, once they got 3-4 months of solid training they became very hard to handle. Size matters, in fact 25 lbs=one belt level.

Where you are extremely misinformed is your stating that students are "there for the battle". You could not be more wrong. Save the battle for the streets. If you learn to flow, and from what you post you have not, you will quickly stop "battling." Finally, BJJ is 30% of fighting. They have horrible takedowns. They will never get a good wrestler to the ground. Wrestling is 30% of fighting. Finally, stand up striking is 40% of fighting. And weapons, that changes everything.

The best students are there for the art.

So while yes, you clearly are misinformed, tell me what you know or think you know. Who have you trained with, and this includes BJJ, Wrestling, Striking and for me also weapons (FMA's Kali, Escrima etc. I also train firearms as much as possible.) I am not flaming you, just interested in you back ground and where you get your opinions.

 

[Dr_Bob]

Guys: I do not want this thread to degenerate into a pissing match.

What I do want is for us to have a conversation about the topic.

The guy who claimed I know nothing, and then myself for retaliating, will ruin our journey.

What I want to discuss is anyone who has experience, who wants to learn, and or who may be thinking about adding a new sport.

Is there anyone who wants some advice? Is there anyone who wants to contribute to the discussion?

Please ask.

 

[ALLEX]

100 years ago, Count Maeda a Japanese BB in both Jui-jitsu and Judo, was given political asylum by the Gracie family in Brazil.

That doesn't sound accurate at all...

 

[nothuman]

One of my plans is to go back to playing basketball 3 per week (and tennis maybe once too) but while being a near contest ready ripped 5'10 210lbs guy. Cardiovascular endurance is too important and so many of us neglect it here. You're setting the right example Dr. Bob.