One of the better discussions on "Bodybuilder gut" or Roid gut

[G.I.Bro]

This debate has raged on. Many big names and gurus in the industry/scene have weighed in on what the causes of bloated belly are. Some say its the slin (and related VAT), some the GH, some the intense and constant feedings, etc. I think we can all agree that as we get bigger and take more drugs and more food, we tend to get a more distended belly. The discussion has recently intensified due to Arnold's comments about the gut.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypCVYqMmBFg"]Jerry Brainum on bodybuilder's belly bloat - YouTube[/ame]

Jerry Brainum gives one of the more logical and educated looks at this phenomenon and many of the suggested causes in this video. Worth a watch. He also discusses how active slin in the system causing VAT is reduced when co-administered with active GH (something most of us know). Many have just been told its "best" to use GH and slin together but there are key reasons (this being one).

Jerry's Bio - About Jerry Brainum - Applied Metabolics

Cliffs for you mouth breathers: He dismisses the pathology and science behind the theory of GH increasing intestine size to any significant degree (fairly convincingly). His theory is quite simple really. Enlarged abdominal muscles (which naturally tend to distend) due to AAS and a lack of activated/trained transverse abdominus (aka TVA, which are weaker). He hypothesizes that in the older days of the sport, the vacuum pose was very common and practiced regularly. Its not done today and nobody really practices vacuum exercises. This contributes to the ab wall distending along with the abs themselves being so much bigger as entire bodies are bigger and more developed. Add some VAT development in and BAM.

Point is, several "gurus" or industry voices have dismissed the idea that it is directly related to GH and intestine growth (except maybe Piana). Romano's recent write up on it comes to mind too (largely attributed to massive eating). I personally think its a combination of 1) excessively enlarged ab muscles + weak untrained TVA. 2) An enlarged distended stomach organ from all the constant feedings (often with a slowed down digestion and bloating and food still in the system). When you overeat and get a distended stomach, you will stretch the abdominal wall fascia over time also. The stomach is well known to stretch and grow, doubling its size over time. 3) All of this in combination with the progressive increase of VAT fat (fat around organs behind the ab wall), and you get a very distended gut but with abs still showing. Young people tend to have very low VAT and a tight midsection with minimal distention in a relaxed state. As we age, VAT increases (this is almost universal). We almost always see guys increase waist size and get more distended as they age in their career. Untrained guys with rock hard basketball "beer bellies" are sporting a LARGE amount of VAT fat. High levels of insulin use often leads to increased VAT fat at younger ages. There is a LOT of literature out there which supports GH's ability to help reduce VAT fat as well. So I do not think GH causing intestine growth is necessarily the culprit either. It's a combination of factors but the phenomenon is certainly undeniable. I would personally be more likely to blame insulin use and VAT fat (not to say you cant increase VAT without insulin) than GH.

 

[G.I.Bro]

As a side note, people like Piana swear GH gave them bigger guts. Piana is a fucking retard, plain and simple. I like the guy and his videos but some of the shit he says shows his intelligence.

The simple facts (as I see them) on GH and organ growth are this: GH has been shown to increase heart mass/size moreso when combined with AAS than AAS alone. Fucking SURPRISE!

GH does not cause VAT deposition. If anything, its one of the few things we know drastically reduces it over time.

There is a complete lack of literature, studies, imaging or any pathology results that indicate GH "significantly" and definitively increases Digestive Organ growth. However, I do believe GH can lead to tissue growth in all areas. But if GH was giving people 10-20% larger intestines over a year of use, the medical community would know about it. And this simply does not exist. In fact, GH is often RX'd to HIV patients who have central abdominal Lipodystrophy (fat distribution) related to the virus and drugs in order to HELP REDUCE abdominal distention, VAT and waist circumference. There is just no hard science (as of yet, that I have seen) to back up GH significantly increasing intestine growth.

If anything, blame slin and VAT (and VAT can occur without slin). Then the amount of food some of these pros eat (overeating) stretched stomachs, huge ab walls used to being distended, underdeveloped TVA, etc.

 

[totalrecomp]

As a side note, people like Piana swear GH gave them bigger guts. Piana is a fucking retard, plain and simple. I like the guy and his videos but some of the shit he says shows his intelligence.

The simple facts (as I see them) on GH and organ growth are this: GH has been shown to increase heart mass/size moreso when combined with AAS than AAS alone. Fucking SURPRISE!

GH does not cause VAT deposition. If anything, its one of the few things we know drastically reduces it over time.

There is a complete lack of literature, studies, imaging or any pathology results that indicate GH "significantly" and definitively increases Digestive Organ growth. However, I do believe GH can lead to tissue growth in all areas. But if GH was giving people 10-20% larger intestines over a year of use, the medical community would know about it. And this simply does not exist. In fact, GH is often RX'd to HIV patients who have central abdominal Lipodystrophy (fat distribution) related to the virus and drugs in order to HELP REDUCE abdominal distention, VAT and waist circumference. There is just no hard science (as of yet, that I have seen) to back up GH significantly increasing intestine growth.

If anything, blame slin and VAT (and VAT can occur without slin). Then the amount of food some of these pros eat (overeating) stretched stomachs, huge ab walls used to being distended, underdeveloped TVA, etc.

I agree that overeating and insulin are at play. With aids patients the large amount of GH is more than likely in the absence of large food intake. I may be mistaken but I thought large amounts of GH lead to insulin resistance. Not a huge deal if you eat like a bird but add exo insulin and boatloads of food and there you have it. Sometimes the fact that the medical establishment does not see distention is due to the average patient does not do all the other BB excesses.

 

[G.I.Bro]

I agree that overeating and insulin are at play. With aids patients the large amount of GH is more than likely in the absence of large food intake. I may be mistaken but I thought large amounts of GH lead to insulin resistance. Not a huge deal if you eat like a bird but add exo insulin and boatloads of food and there you have it. Sometimes the fact that the medical establishment does not see distention is due to the average patient does not do all the other BB excesses.

I agree, constant GH use will lead to insulin resistance which all by itself can promote VAT. Luckily, the GH combats this side effect to some degree. But you factor in the large volumes of food, having a distended stomach 75% of the time, extra slin, increased VAT and huge ab walls to begin with and you see how the problem doesn't seem that complex after all - at least in my opinion.

I think anyone who uses GH year around (even low pharm doses like 2-3iu) should cycle some metformin several times a year and/or come off GH for a bit to help promote and re-balance insulin sensitivity. Metformin is an amazing life extending drug that I honestly think most Americans should be on. The risk to reward profile is astounding. I take 1g/day all the time now. If I were in a mass gaining phase I might come off it because it inhibits mTOR and lowers IGF-1. This isnt as much an issue when taking exo GH. But its interplay with mTOR and AMPK is probably not an "optimal" environment for raw muscle accrual (especially natural). Otherwise, its life extension in a pill.

 

[need4tren]

100 percent force feeding, i had gut problems for the past year, went low carb and ate light for the past few weeks vacuum pose it back. although i must say, i do not use synthetic gh. but yes to peptides and lots and lots of slin

 

[westcoastbber]

As a side note, people like Piana swear GH gave them bigger guts. Piana is a fucking retard, plain and simple. I like the guy and his videos but some of the shit he says shows his intelligence.

The simple facts (as I see them) on GH and organ growth are this: GH has been shown to increase heart mass/size moreso when combined with AAS than AAS alone. Fucking SURPRISE!

GH does not cause VAT deposition. If anything, its one of the few things we know drastically reduces it over time.

There is a complete lack of literature, studies, imaging or any pathology results that indicate GH "significantly" and definitively increases Digestive Organ growth. However, I do believe GH can lead to tissue growth in all areas. But if GH was giving people 10-20% larger intestines over a year of use, the medical community would know about it. And this simply does not exist. In fact, GH is often RX'd to HIV patients who have central abdominal Lipodystrophy (fat distribution) related to the virus and drugs in order to HELP REDUCE abdominal distention, VAT and waist circumference. There is just no hard science (as of yet, that I have seen) to back up GH significantly increasing intestine growth.

If anything, blame slin and VAT (and VAT can occur without slin). Then the amount of food some of these pros eat (overeating) stretched stomachs, huge ab walls used to being distended, underdeveloped TVA, etc.

Thank you!!! Someone who actually understands!

AIDS patients are prescribed 18iu a day (a whole 6mg Serostim vial) and some crazy reason have none of this massive organ growth hmm.....

And then we see bodybuilders who are retired and have shrunk back down and have no guts, does that mean once GH was stopped their organs shrank back to normal? No.

Eating massive amounts of food everyday all day in addition to the massive amounts of viscreal fat stored from the massive amounts of insulin being used are to blame here

 

[G.I.Bro]

PIANA GH GUT DEBUNKED.... Sad day for 5 percenters.

**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e4d4W9uR0ac#t=0[/ame]

 

[NY Beast]

Very interesting video...

Thanks for sharing!

 

[HimRoid]

PIANA GH GUT DEBUNKED.... Sad day for 5 percenters.

**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e4d4W9uR0ac#t=0

I like that big arm! I love those big tits!

 

[desibaba]

I wonder if people worry about who will ever hire them or take them seriously when they get tattoos on their face???

 

[jrock00123]

Interesting video. I loved all of the topics he mentions at the end so I signed up for his news letter service. I give it a go for at least a couple of months. Seems like an intelligent guy with real world experience to back it up.

 

[Google&Pubmed]

I can see it being force feeding. I personally am working on trying to get 3 of my meals from shakes but when I eat solid food 6x a day my stomach is always sticking out while days that I don't I look way leaner and better. And I'm not even a big guy and these bodybuilders have to eat a MASSIVE amount of food. They HAVE to go somewhere.

 

[FutureFreak7]

I can see it being force feeding. I personally am working on trying to get 3 of my meals from shakes but when I eat solid food 6x a day my stomach is always sticking out while days that I don't I look way leaner and better. And I'm not even a big guy and these bodybuilders have to eat a MASSIVE amount of food. They HAVE to go somewhere.

I don't know about you but shakes bloat me more then food


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[G.I.Bro]

I don't know about you but shakes bloat me more then food

Many people share this. I can eat a small portion of chicken or fish, rice or sweet potato and I feel fine an hour later, if not able to eat again. But I often get bloated and gassy from a even a quality brand whey isolate based shake. It should NOT be a mere lactose intolerance because these higher quality isolate mixes have very little lactose.

Still, many get this. Evan Centopani has recently posted that he has removed whey shakes entirely from his diet. He uses only whole food and vegetable based protein shakes and BCAA (sparingly). He was having digestion issues with whey shakes that seemed to develop more as he aged. It seems the longer I have been eating like this, the more sensitive my GI has become to things.

Am I REALLY Going Vegan? Srs? : Evan Centopani

 

[ZOFO1973]

I always try to get all of my meals in with regular whole foods. Sometimes its inevitable with most of us having busy lifestyles and juggling family responsibilities and work; its easier to slam a shake when on the run. Ive recently switched to casein protein. Ive notices much less bloat than when using whey. Throw a probiotic and digestive enzymes in once a day and im good to go. Digestive system running fine.

 

[Flexpack215]

One of the better discussions on "Bodybuilder gut" or Roid gut

I usually get the same problems when I come out of a comp. I Always have digestive issues to new foods or anything slightly different. Adding in a very powerful probiotic every morning and good digestive enzymes have really helped turn my system around and going again. The whey shakes themselves would bloat me and they were my favorite. Maybe try this route if you haven't already.

 

[FutureFreak7]

Many people share this. I can eat a small portion of chicken or fish, rice or sweet potato and I feel fine an hour later, if not able to eat again. But I often get bloated and gassy from a even a quality brand whey isolate based shake. It should NOT be a mere lactose intolerance because these higher quality isolate mixes have very little lactose.



Still, many get this. Evan Centopani has recently posted that he has removed whey shakes entirely from his diet. He uses only whole food and vegetable based protein shakes and BCAA (sparingly). He was having digestion issues with whey shakes that seemed to develop more as he aged. It seems the longer I have been eating like this, the more sensitive my GI has become to things.



Am I REALLY Going Vegan? Srs? : Evan Centopani

Hit the nail on the head I can completely relate brother


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Massive G]

One thing that is left out of the equation in aging men is visceral fat, as we get older normally the body starts to lay down/store fat around the organs -you'll see a lot of older men with muscular arms and legs but a round belly.

Hardcore bb'ers that use insulin only seem to exasperate the effect over the years screwing up insulin sensitivity almost to type 2 diabetic levels.

seen many a friend that has screwed up their insulin sensitivity with high doses of GH and insulin.

 

[G.I.Bro]

One thing that is left out of the equation in aging men is visceral fat, as we get older normally the body starts to lay down/store fat around the organs -you'll see a lot of older men with muscular arms and legs but a round belly.

Hardcore bb'ers that use insulin only seem to exasperate the effect over the years screwing up insulin sensitivity almost to type 2 diabetic levels.

seen many a friend that has screwed up their insulin sensitivity with high doses of GH and insulin.

VAT and visceral fat are interchangeable terms, so it was covered in the video and my posts and others. I agree with you, btw. VAT/visceral fat is the predominant factor in my humble opinion.

 

[fbxdan]

Possibly... As our friend google&pubmed already noted it is also shoving massive amounts of food to achieve such mass.. Of course a lack of abdominal control and not practicing a vacuum AND being to not lazy and supplementing with proper fiber supplement! I was getting a turtle shell/ gut it looked like for awhile, of course was eating a lot... I started supplement with soluble and insoluble fiber and realized i was literally clogged up with shit and constipated. Now I take both forms 2x a day and feel great, no turtle shell as well!