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serms and decreased igf.

nfernoo

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I used mg brand hgh and gh serum was 29 but igf was (if I remember) 150 's (5 iu 5x a week)

I was taking 60 to 120mg raloxifene at the time for gyno.
The studies out there mention lowering igf1 but didn't mention low igf while on exogenous hgh.
Any info or experience with this?
 
Bump.

I know Nolvadex is supposed to lower igf-1 supposedly. Hope someone more informed can chime in.
 
From what I remember, we're talking about a 10-15% decrease change with Tamoxifen.

I'd be very surprised if you noticed anything at all.

EDIT:

This study shows a 38% (113>70) decrease, but is in cancer patients given 20mg/ED Tamoxifen Citrate for 12 weeks.

The above study is also on females, not males.
 
Last edited:
This study, shows a 28.4% decrease in IGF-1 in elderly female breast cancer patients.
 
Last edited:
And finally, to kill this thread off... :)

Birzniece V, Sata A, Sutanto S, Ho KKY.

Neuroendocrine Regulation of Growth Hormone and Androgen Axes by Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators in Healthy Men.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab:jc.2010-1477. An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Context: In men, the stimulation of GH and inhibition of LH secretion by testosterone requires aromatization to estradiol. tamoxifen, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), possesses central estrogen antagonistic effect but peripheral hepatic agonist effect, lowering IGF-I. Thus, tamoxifen is likely to perturb the neuroendocrine regulation of GH and gonadal axes. Raloxifene, a SERM, is used for therapy of osteoporosis in both sexes. Its neuroendocrine effects in men are poorly understood.

Objective: The aim was to compare the impact of raloxifene and tamoxifen on GH-IGF-I and gonadal axes in healthy men.

Design: We conducted a randomized, open-label crossover study.

Patients and Intervention: Ten healthy men were randomized to 2-wk sequential treatment with tamoxifen(10 and 20 mg/d) and raloxifene (60 and 120 mg/d), with a 2-wk intervening washout period.

Main Outcome Measures: We measured the GH response to arginine and circulating levels of IGF-I, LH, FSH, testosterone, and SHBG.

Results: Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, significantly reduced IGF-I levels by 25 {+/-} 6% (P < 0.01) and increased SHBG levels by 20 {+/-} 7% (P < 0.05) at the higher therapeutic dose. There was a nonstatistically significant trend toward a reduction in the GH response to arginine with both SERMs. Both drugs significantly increased LH, FSH, and testosterone concentrations. The mean increase in testosterone (40 vs. 25%; P < 0.05) and LH (70 vs. 30%; P < 0.01) was significantly greater with tamoxifen than with raloxifene treatment.

Conclusions: Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, reduces IGF-I levels. Both SERMs stimulate the gonadal axis, with tamoxifen imparting a greater effect. We conclude that in therapeutic doses, raloxifene perturbs the GH and gonadal axes to a lesser degree than tamoxifen.
 
And finally, to kill this thread off... :)

Birzniece V, Sata A, Sutanto S, Ho KKY.

Neuroendocrine Regulation of Growth Hormone and Androgen Axes by Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators in Healthy Men.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab:jc.2010-1477. An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Context: In men, the stimulation of GH and inhibition of LH secretion by testosterone requires aromatization to estradiol. tamoxifen, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), possesses central estrogen antagonistic effect but peripheral hepatic agonist effect, lowering IGF-I. Thus, tamoxifen is likely to perturb the neuroendocrine regulation of GH and gonadal axes. Raloxifene, a SERM, is used for therapy of osteoporosis in both sexes. Its neuroendocrine effects in men are poorly understood.

Objective: The aim was to compare the impact of raloxifene and tamoxifen on GH-IGF-I and gonadal axes in healthy men.

Design: We conducted a randomized, open-label crossover study.

Patients and Intervention: Ten healthy men were randomized to 2-wk sequential treatment with tamoxifen(10 and 20 mg/d) and raloxifene (60 and 120 mg/d), with a 2-wk intervening washout period.

Main Outcome Measures: We measured the GH response to arginine and circulating levels of IGF-I, LH, FSH, testosterone, and SHBG.

Results: Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, significantly reduced IGF-I levels by 25 {+/-} 6% (P < 0.01) and increased SHBG levels by 20 {+/-} 7% (P < 0.05) at the higher therapeutic dose. There was a nonstatistically significant trend toward a reduction in the GH response to arginine with both SERMs. Both drugs significantly increased LH, FSH, and testosterone concentrations. The mean increase in testosterone (40 vs. 25%; P < 0.05) and LH (70 vs. 30%; P < 0.01) was significantly greater with tamoxifen than with raloxifene treatment.

Conclusions: Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, reduces IGF-I levels. Both SERMs stimulate the gonadal axis, with tamoxifen imparting a greater effect. We conclude that in therapeutic doses, raloxifene perturbs the GH and gonadal axes to a lesser degree than tamoxifen.


There are also studies that say it does.

explain how my serum gh was 29 and igf was around 150?
of course this was a generic but still
 
There are also studies that say it does.

explain how my serum gh was 29 and igf was around 150?
of course this was a generic but still

Explain what other igf tests you have....or a baseline. Also, chinese generic...this happens to plenty of people and if you are following the HGH testing thread...you will see serums sometimes that are more than ok but igf that is low. No one can seem to solve it but I am highly suspect of most chinese GH. Who is to say if the chinese have found a way to have high serums.

Possible liver issues?

That's everyone's knee jerk reaction. While liver issues would cause an issue with IGF, it's not what is happening in most cases.
 
Explain what other igf tests you have....or a baseline. Also, chinese generic...this happens to plenty of people and if you are following the HGH testing thread...you will see serums sometimes that are more than ok but igf that is low. No one can seem to solve it but I am highly suspect of most chinese GH. Who is to say if the chinese have found a way to have high serums.





That's everyone's knee jerk reaction. While liver issues would cause an issue with IGF, it's not what is happening in most cases.

liver is fine. Hiv negative and all that good stuff.

Knight. No I've never had baseline checked.
my serostim protocol I'm afraid fell short.
Money issues.
 
There are also studies that say it does.

explain how my serum gh was 29 and igf was around 150?
of course this was a generic but still

No, "but still" unless you have prior baseline readings.

Without a baseline, one could also assume Ralox boosted your IGF-1 as well.

I'm also with Knight9 on the Chinesa shit thats meant to be HGH. Unless you're taking legit pharmaceutical grade HGH from a solid supplier or on script, I'd be very wary of any HGH serum test results and/or IGF-1 readings in Chinese generic "GH".
 

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