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For or against PCT

Ocean cool

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Kilo Klub Member
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Dec 13, 2009
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PCT or not to PCT?

Is it safer and wiser not to go on a PCT or is PCT useless?

Would love to hear your thoughts.
 
Ive been on Dr. prescribed TRT since im 40. That's going on 6 years and I feel great. I get bloods done quarterly. IMO, why waste time and money with PCT if you are just going to go back on asap.
 
Thanks for the info.

I know the older guys are on TRT and get prescriptions.

I was referring to the younger guys who are gym rather with moderate sensible doses.


Ive been on Dr. prescribed TRT since im 40. That's going on 6 years and I feel great. I get bloods done quarterly. IMO, why waste time and money with PCT if you are just going to go back on asap.
 
The fact is that you can do nothing to get the glands in your brain to start producing the chemicals. There's no "kickstarting" or "jumpstarting" shit lol. The HPTA is not a motor engine! So, to say again, there is nothing to start that complex mechanism back up again rapidly. It's a very complicated series of chemical signals that cause periodic pulsation, blah. It's can't be done.

There are drugs you can take that will artificially raise your T levels and LH, FSH, GnRH, GHRH, etc., whatever but they will usually stop working when you stop taking the drug. People "feel" better taking these and they mistake that for recovery. There are many arguments as to what the best remedy is for a shutdown pituitary and hypothalamus. It's sort of silly too because there is no remedy for a shutdown pituitary or hypothalamus.

Some things make people FEEL better and I think that's where the most attention to "PCT" should be paid; things that make you feel better that aren't related to your body's own natural recovery. You can treat the symptoms (bad mood, depression, fatique, low libido, etc) fairly easy. This has been discussed to death on this board. I just did a quick search and found the below thread but there are many others. Beware of people promoting PCT when they sell PCT products! Beware of people saying what most people do because "most people" doesn't = truth.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...0516-anyone-ever-use-aromasin-only-pct-3.html
 
TRT is the way to go between cycles IMO, no matter the age. Hormone swings from on/off/on/off seem worse than cruising on low test between.

Big PCTs with elaborate schemes are overrated, but if coming off I think something should be used and that's from experience. I had a health issue cause me to stop immediately one time in my mid 20s, and I couldn't use anything. Got gyno, shit coming out my nipples, and all sort of bad stuff...
 
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I read all these stuff about clomid, Nolva and HCG.

All these are used to great extend.
 
Ive gotten better results coming off pct then going back on.

I use to blast and cruise. with no real significant changes.

My blast is now my cruise dose and im bigger and harder then ever
 
I think PCT is useless IMO. Some people stop cold turkey and recover just fine, granted the mood, libido etc... can have a psychological impact. I asked my endo about PCT and he replied almost word for word what OTH said.
 
Would u PCT or just cruise?

Which is a safer alternative?
 
I have tried this a few time (PCT or no PCT)
seen it in a thread here. And posts from OTH and many others ( Whos xperiences weigh heavily) so I tried zERO pct.
I have a thread on it somewhere and am currently doing 1 now on Bloods.(http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/127407-tracking-blood-work.html)
My xperience has been faster and easier recovery with Nothing which i am going through as we speak. At this time I still cycle many Belive more in the B & C which I have not made the jump to yet.
BTW I do Bloods weekly and will post them on and off in that thread I linked

Peace
 
Would u PCT or just cruise?

Which is a safer alternative?

-I personally would just cruise on a TRT dose but that's a choice that took me a year to make as I wanted to be sure thats what I wanted to do.

- Safety wise I couldnt really tell you one is safer than the other but with monitoring your blood work you should be able to track how you are doing.

One positive thing about cruising was that I became much more concerned with health and go for regular bloods and taking natural health supps to stay ahead of the game.
 
Remember that I do believe there are some things you can do and use to ease the transition back to natural. One of the myths is that you will lose all your gains. Not true. Maybe if you were just on for a few months perhaps. But if you're like many of us and have seen bodyweights up in higher 200lbs or 120kg or more, if you push through the drop in hormones and keep training hard, you're not going to just go back to your former size immediately. Then again, if you quit training altogether and stay off for a year or two you might.

Also, it seems I recover from shorter ester blasts (like propionates, suspensions, TNE preps, etc.) then longer esters I don't know why that is though.

There are some things that DEFINITELY make me feel one hell of a lot better when coming off though, without interfering with my body's HPTA recovery.

I don't take creatine while on but many people do. After coming off is a good time for me to start. Keeps me a little fuller and I don't feel as flat and weak.

I try to continue my life and training with as much intensity as I can muster while continuing to drink lots of water.

I eat a balanced diet which includes even more organic, nutrient-dense foods with plenty of dark green vegetables like broccoli, Brussels sprouts, asparagus and leafy vegetables like spinach. Magnesium and zinc seems to give me some pep as well. Eggs and whole milk are also packed with vitamins.

L-dopa, drinking coffee, St. John's wort, and/or something medicinal like an antidepressant to keep my energy and spirits up. I'm not a big fan of St. John's wort but if you take it, don't take it if you plan on taking a medicinal anti-depressant like Cymbalta, Zoloft, or Prozac. I only mention St. John's b/c it's cheap and certainly has antidepressant properties. I usually reach for the Prozac because it's old school and so am I.

I have personally felt much better taking cabergoline (Dostinex, Cabaser) or prami with some Cialis or other PDE-5 inhibitor for my sex drive. I can say that these have worked for me but again, it depends on the individual.

If I'm taking longer than expected to recover, then maybe I'll try HCG for a few weeks for my testes sake. For me, this has worked just fine at 250-500iu 2-3 times per week. I discontinue once my jewels return to normal size.

Recovery won't happen immediately but the things I just mentioned have helped me get through some rough parts. If you begin to notice other physical symptoms (e.g. gyno) as a result of very low test:estro ratio than maybe an SERM like tamoxifen or an AI like Aromasin to ward off fatty tissue or uncomfortable nipples but be careful because these drugs mess with your hormone levels also. For myself, I would only resort to them if I wasn't bouncing back fast enough and had some early signs of gyno.

From members here, I've heard pretty decent recoveries anywhere from 3-6 months being quite normal. Others say it takes them up to a year. Be patient. Train hard. Keep your spirits up, EAT RIGHT and you will recover with a little time. That's really all the PCT you should need. It just takes time.
 
I agree that HCG and Clomid just make you feel better, but thats why I take them. I feel the worst the first month, and when I take both HCG and Clomid it makes the first month much easier, at least for me it does. I also take a lot of creatine when coming off, definitely helps keep you full.

I came off a long cycle once with nothing and it was not pretty. Now I run 4 months cycles and I'm off the rest of the year, so it just makes sense for me to try and feel good that first month. Then after a month of a PCT I wont take anything for a week or 2 and then ill start some over the counter test booster.
 
I agree that HCG and Clomid just make you feel better, but thats why I take them. I feel the worst the first month, and when I take both HCG and Clomid it makes the first month much easier, at least for me it does. I also take a lot of creatine when coming off, definitely helps keep you full.

I came off a long cycle once with nothing and it was not pretty. Now I run 4 months cycles and I'm off the rest of the year, so it just makes sense for me to try and feel good that first month. Then after a month of a PCT I wont take anything for a week or 2 and then ill start some over the counter test booster.
I have done this as well. The difference is that I use HCG all through my blasts. Then, coming off, I would try Clomid and Aromasin and it would make me feel a little better but then I would get even another drop once I tapered off the Clomid/Aromasin stack. It's kind of the difference between slowly wading into a pool of cold water or just jumping in all at once. These days though, having done it so many times, I don't prolong the agony any longer than I have to. Everyone is different though and that's what makes it interesting.
 
I always thought it was a useless concept. Even when I first started looking at noob steroid boards before I found PM, I completely disagreed with the "vets." Funny how most of those forums don't "require" pct anymore :rolleyes:
 
I always thought it was a useless concept. Even when I first started looking at noob steroid boards before I found PM, I completely disagreed with the "vets." Funny how most of those forums don't "require" pct anymore :rolleyes:
I remember when I got started on similar forums as you mentioned no one could even ask about a cycle without being beaten over the head "what about PCT?". It annoyed the hell out of me even back then. People would gang up and just obsess about it and I couldn't take it.
 
I remember when I got started on similar forums as you mentioned no one could even ask about a cycle without being beaten over the head "what about PCT?". It annoyed the hell out of me even back then. People would gang up and just obsess about it and I couldn't take it.


That pissed me off so much too. They'd all get together and bully the hell out of you if you didn't mention pct or even looked like you were about to say you wanted to cruise. I don't go on horrible sites likes steroid.com or elitefitness anymore but I wonder if they still act like that. It sucks as a noob to know nothing and stumble on those sites and get brainwashed with horrible information.
 
i'm 29 and trt for life for me and I had no cycle history at all so for me easy choice... that said I would have chose trt anyways had I decided to cycle. Putting you body through a hormonal reboot over and over can't be good for you and good luck trying to hang on to any gains in the process, sounds like spinning wheels to me.
 
Well, you should ask yourself a question if you want to go off a cycle for a long time (1 year or more) and whether you want to have a chance to conceive an offspring (after hard cycles) in the days to come. If the answer is yes, I wouldn't drop PCT and products such as hmg, hcg, clomid etc.
Otherwise, what;s the point of PCT? It;s better to cruise or cruise and blast:)
 
Well, you should ask yourself a question if you want to go off a cycle for a long time (1 year or more) and whether you want to have a chance to conceive an offspring (after hard cycles) in the days to come. If the answer is yes, I wouldn't drop PCT and products such as hmg, hcg, clomid etc.
Otherwise, what;s the point of PCT? It;s better to cruise or cruise and blast:)
Maybe there is no point to PCT. Have you ever considered whether or not there is definitive proof that PCT truly decreases the interval of time between coming off a cycle and hormone levels returning to normal? Two of my children were conceived during massive blasts. In healthy individuals it's just doesn't seem to be a factor. If you have a preexisting fertility problem, than maybe you should reconsider what you're doing knowing full well that high levels of exogenous androgens can decrease spermatogenesis to a greater or lesser degree.

In those cases, you would require synthetic LH and FSH or a drug prescribed to increase gonadotropins if possible - but only for infertile men - and only in men whose testes respond favorably to gonadotropins and begin to increase sperm production as a result.

That being said, I'd prefer not to include sponsors or reps in this discussion due to the bias created by the fact that you have a financial interest in PCT medications because those items are available on your product list. None of that has anything to do with fertility as that would need to be taken into consideration between that person and their fertility clinic, far removed from an internet BBing board sponsor. Can the average BBer count his sperm density with a microscope? Has any infertile male successfully conceived a child due to products obtained on an internet forum? Has a fertility clinic ever operated in conjunction with the products available here online?
 

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