Super high protein diets

[natrol]

So I've definitely cut down and bulked several times tinkering with different styles of dieting. Over the past couple years I have occasionally seen reputable sources who are adamant in the fact that if gains plateau, you can break it by simply adding more protein.

There are a few big name guys on here who advocate protein amounts that to most people seem excessive, however, I have never tried this style of dieting myself so I can't truly attest to whether it would be very beneficial for me or not. Up to now, my pre-contest phases essentially entailed getting around 1.5 grams protein per pound body weight, a bit of healthy fats where I can, and the rest carbs. With carbs tapering downwards closer to the show in order to reduce overall daily caloric intake to continue the fat loss process as I plateau. When I bulk I do the opposite, keep protein moderately high still (1.5 grams per pound body weight) and push the carbs upwards higher and higher to increase the caloric surplus as my weight plateaus. This has worked best for me, with carb cycling being implemented if necessary. This super high protein diet intrigues me though.

Anyways, has anybody truly done a super high protein diet on here (500 grams+) that can attest to whether it significantly improved their muscle retention (on a cut) or improved their lean tissue gains (on a bulk) as opposed to other styles of dieting they have tried in the past? I guess I'm more looking for feedback from guys who have tried this super high protein style, but have also dabbled in the other types of diets so there is a fair comparison. I am tempted to try it myself, but thinking about consuming that much protein it would seem that I wouldn't even have any room in a caloric deficit to plug in any carbs or fats at all if I was cutting, or if I could it would be minimal amounts per meal. I can't even imagine how my digestion would be too oh man.

I am very aware of AAS's ability to drastically improve protein synthesis, but is there a level of diminishing returns even on AAS where you would be much better off allocating your calories you have left in the day to other macronutrients?

Sorry for the long winded post, just trying to see if anybody can provide their experiences as there aren't many that I have read or heard of up to now, just a token few situations.

 

[Kendrxck]

In for knowledge as well. Fantastic questions.

 

[jrock00123]

I'm not sure about the lean bulking side and also interested in hearing from those with experience. On the cutting front, if protein starts approaching 80+% of your diet, you'd basically using a PSMF (protein sparing modified fast) which is a good diet for sedentary people, but not ideal for bodybuilding.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

It depends on whether you feel an adaption takes place with greater and greater muscle mass which bodybuilders possess.....combined with heavier and heavier training + higher and higher protein intake. (I personally do)....and there is info out there backing that up


these were kids.....
apply that to a heavy slag training bodybuilder in rapid muscle mass accumulation mode

**broken link removed**

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

So I've definitely cut down and bulked several times tinkering with different styles of dieting. Over the past couple years I have occasionally seen reputable sources who are adamant in the fact that if gains plateau, you can break it by simply adding more protein.

There are a few big name guys on here who advocate protein amounts that to most people seem excessive, however, I have never tried this style of dieting myself so I can't truly attest to whether it would be very beneficial for me or not. Up to now, my pre-contest phases essentially entailed getting around 1.5 grams protein per pound body weight, a bit of healthy fats where I can, and the rest carbs. With carbs tapering downwards closer to the show in order to reduce overall daily caloric intake to continue the fat loss process as I plateau. When I bulk I do the opposite, keep protein moderately high still (1.5 grams per pound body weight) and push the carbs upwards higher and higher to increase the caloric surplus as my weight plateaus. This has worked best for me, with carb cycling being implemented if necessary. This super high protein diet intrigues me though.

Anyways, has anybody truly done a super high protein diet on here (500 grams+) that can attest to whether it significantly improved their muscle retention (on a cut) or improved their lean tissue gains (on a bulk) as opposed to other styles of dieting they have tried in the past? I guess I'm more looking for feedback from guys who have tried this super high protein style, but have also dabbled in the other types of diets so there is a fair comparison. I am tempted to try it myself, but thinking about consuming that much protein it would seem that I wouldn't even have any room in a caloric deficit to plug in any carbs or fats at all if I was cutting, or if I could it would be minimal amounts per meal. I can't even imagine how my digestion would be too oh man.

I am very aware of AAS's ability to drastically improve protein synthesis, but is there a level of diminishing returns even on AAS where you would be much better off allocating your calories you have left in the day to other macronutrients?

Sorry for the long winded post, just trying to see if anybody can provide their experiences as there aren't many that I have read or heard of up to now, just a token few situations.

iv counted my protein now for 12-13 years. ive counted total calories almost everyday for7-8 years, those 7-8 years I was pinpoint, and now in offseason esp I just eye it and go by mirror, lose bodyfat, decrease carbs, fats, up protein etc..... ...but to answer you last contest prep 2012..I counted and the last few to couple weeks I was losing muscle ,,i measured on a inbody520 machine, supposed to be a 7 k machine that measures everything, body fat levels muscle in torso, each arm, each leg, intra and execullar (sp?0 water...anyways I started dropping strength ,,I upped my protein, it was at like 350-375 (with lots of bcaas included-which I counted) and upped protein to 450 (bcaas included) and stopped losing and started gaining. diet stay the same, drug regime stayed the same...this was measuring weekly and sometimes more on the inbody520 machine. That showed me during extreme dieting phases, my grams of carbs were down to 100-150 a day, and grams of fat at 30-50, that increasing protein helped me stopped losing muscle and I got stronger (lifts went up),and gained muscle, according to the machine

 

[nothuman]

It would be interesting to see a study on bodybuilders eating gargantuan amounts of protein but that will never happen. It's pretty much one of those things people need to try for themselves to truly know.

I've always been in the camp that bodybuilders eat more protein than is actually necessary, but I typically get 1.5g protein per lb anyway because it's difficult to get less than that for me.

 

[Gravel]

Prior to Hernon winning the USA he was eating 5 to 6 pounds of chicken breasts per day.

 

[Dancho]

Prior to Hernon winning the USA he was eating 5 to 6 pounds of chicken breasts per day.

In an old post of his on PM, he said he was drinking all his meals prior to usa, in another he mentioned his only protein was coming from beef collagen(lba) which is not complete protein. only he knows what he did...

 

[nothuman]

Prior to Hernon winning the USA he was eating 5 to 6 pounds of chicken breasts per day.

In an old post of his on PM, he said he was drinking all his meals prior to usa, in another he mentioned his only protein was coming from beef collagen(lba) which is not complete protein. only he knows what he did...

I saved a post of his from 9 years ago. Has nothing to do with protein but relevant to what you guys are saying

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...e-forum/23635-pros-dosages-my-experience.html

 

[bg091593]

I'm going real high with my protein right now. 500g protein, 325g carbs and 70g fats daily and I weigh currently 208. I like it personally, I'm up 12lb since starting my cycle and look just as lean. I have a log going currently with Saturn too if anyone want's to follow along. I may keep my protein at 2.5g/lb BW just as an experiment with myself, as long as I can digest everything well and nothing feels 'off'. Just as a side note, 90-100g of that protein is coming from whey. The rest is coming from eggs, ground beef, steak, chicken, tuna and greek yogurt.

 

[NY Muscle]

I'm a huge fan of high protein intake in general especially when you are lowering your carbs. Also keep in mind the fact that protein has a thermic effect of food that something like 5 times greater than carbohydrates. So nothing but good things should happen with this way of eating

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk 2

 

[w8tlifterty]

I saved a post of his from 9 years ago. Has nothing to do with protein but relevant to what you guys are saying

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...e-forum/23635-pros-dosages-my-experience.html

Blast from the past... A lot of good guys no longer around in that thread. Fun to read again after all these years.

For what it's worth... The biggest I ever got was following Dante's advice in my early to mid twenties. Progressively heavier weights with progressively more protein as I grew. I think I topped out around 450g daily for months on end... Not the prettiest, but big and strong. Mostly animal proteins as I've never cared for powders.

Natrol, I think I remember you from another board, you are a freak if I got the right guy... I'd say give it a go if healthy and digestion is good. If nothing else you learn how your body responds or doesn't.

 

[bg091593]

so if you eat 400 pounds of protein a year that means you're going to gain a couple hundred pounds of "muscle mass?"
how about 100 pounds?
50? 50 pounds of "muscle mass" if u eat 400 pounds a year?
i want to see that. i wanna see guys gain 50-100 pounds a year, otherwise that 400 pounds of protein u ate was fuckin stupid and a waste of money and kidney stress.

I don't see anyone saying that if you eat 400lb of protein a year that it means they'll gain a couple hundred pounds of muscle mass...

Same argument could be made for guys that eat 800g of carbs a day no?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

this really isnt an argument that can be proven by anyone in here. It really isnt.

I base my opinions on the least path of resistance

take in too many carbs and what happens (adipose tissue FAST)
take in too many fats and what happens (in the case of good fats....at a rate that is much slower than the above)
take in too much protein and what happens (i depend/count on the thermic effect of (digestion) of food principle in that case which is way way way above fats and carbs)...so in my opinion if you want to up one of these three in hopes of more muscle mass....the nobrainer way to do thats with the building block of muscle mass (protein/amino acids) with the clear cut fact....that by a wide margin the most calories burned thru digestion is also protein so you can take more of it and not as easily gain fat unlike the other two.

With that said....are there going to be any studies lending itself to this? Not really in our genre. But if you are asking me if i think a 108lb bikini competitor generates as much protein turnover as a 275lb extreme LBM bodybuilder heaving around outrageous poundages......and the whole adaption (in theory in which i believe that theory) that has taken place in that bodybuilders journey? NO i dont believe that bikini competitor is even in the same ballpark. People love absolutes...."oh a person can only utilize this".....A person = the average person. I dont classify someone with 75 more lbs of muscle mass on their body, using a method (brutally heavy weights) to increase protein turnover 4-6 times a week and using drugs that greatly greatly enhance this whole process.....as "the average person"

 

[GottaGain]

Tested out the "carbohydrates are protein sparing" theory and while it may work for some, it was awful for me. Just got softer, weaker and felt terrible/moody. 1.5-2g of protein per lb of bodyweight is what I seem to respond to best. Look and feel heaps better, more stable energy level throughout the day. Would be curious to see what more than 2g of protein per lb of bodyweight would do.

 

[td]

"carbohydrates are protein sparing"

Carbohydrates are protein sparing. Dietary fat can spare protein too. Here's something that many might not consider: dietary protein can spare muscle protein. Protein sparing protein.

A gram of protein and a gram of carbohydrates are both 4 calories. Calories, of course being a unit of energy measurement. However, the human body is not a bomb calorimeter. The type of calorie matters for digestion. As previously cited, the thermal effect of food (TEF), is highest for protein. So in theory, one could not simply swap protein for carbohydrates directly and expect the same results. While human metabolism may appear to be a simple thermodynamic equation, actually is quite complex. The first law of thermodynamics is not exactly straightforward for open systems.

Physics aside; back to the question at hand. Will extremely high dietary protein intake produce more hypertrophy/hyperplasia?

That is the question. I don't know.

 

[Gravel]

In an old post of his on PM, he said he was drinking all his meals prior to usa, in another he mentioned his only protein was coming from beef collagen(lba) which is not complete protein. only he knows what he did...

Haha....no he wasn't.

 

[JG_0808]

There is irrefutable evidence through numerous studies that PROVE CONCLUSIVELY more protein is required during a CALORIE DEFICIT in order to ensure nitrogen balance remains positive than in a surplus.

So yes, more protein is required when in deficit to ensure muscle is sparred and nitrogen balance remains positive however in a surplus of calories you can get away with less.

In terms of the 'thermic' effect of protein which I feel is widely misunderstood on how it works (not here, just in general), protein actually contains 5 calories per gram so the thermic effect is already accounted for prior to us eating it as we count protein as 4 calories per gram.

You wont magically avoid gaining fat by overeating protein instead of carbs or fats, unfortunately it just doesn't work that way HOWEVER when drugs are added to the mix if you are going to overeat then it is advantageous to consume more protein than carbs or fats as it will be better utlised than the other two macros.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

An overfeeding of protein study.....and it compares to an overfeeding of carbohydrate study

**broken link removed**

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Dr. Lonnie Lowery: Now might be a good time to discuss the potential for protein over-consumption. As you both know, there's no consensus (or even a single study to my knowledge) that excess protein (> 0.8 g/kg) does any measurable damage to healthy kidneys. Most of the scare tactics stem from the data on renal patients.

These patients end up with rapid loss of kidney function on normal high protein diets. Interestingly, the very professionals who point out every mistaken extrapolation in the dietary supplement world conveniently forget that they're doing the same "leap of faith" bullshit by applying this patient data to healthy athletes.

Having said that, I think there are real body composition advantages to eating upwards of 1.5 g/ lb. That's right, overfeed protein! First off, overeating protein, within reason, will not make you fat. A calorie is not a calorie! That is, excess protein calories aren't as likely to be stored as body fat compared to carbs and most fats.

This is because protein has to have its nitrogen ripped off in the liver (the urea cycle), which is an energy costly process. To boot, protein kicks up glucagon secretion and glucagon antagonizes the lipogenic (fat storage) effects of insulin.

Carbs don't lend people the same favor; they just jack insulin levels sky high. The net result is that the thermic effect of food is about 30% of the intake for proteins, while it's just 4 to 6% for fats and carbohydrates. This means that for a 100 calorie meal, protein will require a full 30 calories just to process it, compared to a mere 4 to 6 calories expended to process those yummy gut-expanding carbs and fats.

The bottom line is that it appears better to overeat than to under-eat protein when you're trying to add muscle mass while keeping the body fat off.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

**broken link removed**