Metformin article. Seems it is terrible for muscle.

[Thebigone]

This article is way out of my league as I don't understand most of it but it seems like not only does metformin lower igf levels but also suppresses muscle hyper trophy and protein syntheses. A buddy of mine said pairing berberine with metformin can negate this issues. He's a science guru so I'll just copy what he said.

The increase in AMPK will inherently suppress muscle hypertrophy in muscle cells (via decreased igf-1 signaling) . You can attenuate this by inducing PGC-1a (happens with intense workouts) but this also suppresses AMPK in these tissues (AMPK will still be active in the liver and fat cells, so those tissue effects would be preserved). Pairing Berberine/Metformin with intense exercise that contracts your muscle cells would be prudent and may reverse the muscle suppressing effects of Berberine/metformin.


And here is the article

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[Stewie]

So, he's concluded that in-vitro bovine ovarian follicle cells will replicate in human?

Interpretations of biology or physiology is not his strong suit.

 

[chainheart]

So, he's concluded that in-vitro bovine ovarian follicle cells will replicate in human?

Interpretations of biology or physiology is not his strong suit.

Stewie while you were on the island who was your favorite Mary Ann or Ginger?

 

[Thebigone]

So, he's concluded that in-vitro bovine ovarian follicle cells will replicate in human?

Interpretations of biology or physiology is not his strong suit.

I have no idea lol. I just read decrease igf levels and protein synthesis along with decreased muscle hypertrophy and can't think of a reason to ever use metformin again.

 

[RamboStallone]

Isn't AMPK effected by DNP as well?

I bet the increase is insignificant and the decrease in igf is negligible for us juice heads.

 

[Thaistick]

I have no idea lol. I just read decrease igf levels and protein synthesis along with decreased muscle hypertrophy and can't think of a reason to ever use metformin again.

No, no reasons at all.
Except for increased insulin sensitivity, fat loss, enhanced immune system, itreduces or lowers the chances of developing atherosclerosis and reduces the rate of pro-aging cross linkages of collagen, which plays a role in the scar tissue build-up that occurs during wound healing,lowering total cholesterol, low density lipids, free fatty acids, tissue plasminogen activator antigen and insulin levels when patients present with symptoms of hypertension dyslipidemia, visceral obesity or hyperglycemia. You're right though, you should listen to your buddy and his cow cells.

 

[RamboStallone]

No, no reasons at all.
Except for increased insulin sensitivity, fat loss, enhanced immune system, itreduces or lowers the chances of developing atherosclerosis and reduces the rate of pro-aging cross linkages of collagen, which plays a role in the scar tissue build-up that occurs during wound healing,lowering total cholesterol, low density lipids, free fatty acids, tissue plasminogen activator antigen and insulin levels when patients present with symptoms of hypertension dyslipidemia, visceral obesity or hyperglycemia. You're right though, you should listen to your buddy and his cow cells.

I just ordered a shit ton for my Wife and I. We are going to try and give it a good go as GI bro suggested.

GI bro, should I have her take 250mcgs at a time? She's 5'2" 140lbs.

 

[Thaistick]

I just ordered a shit ton for my Wife and I. We are going to try and give it a good go as GI bro suggested.

GI bro, should I have her take 250mcgs at a time? She's 5'2" 140lbs.

I'm not sure who gibro is but here is a copy paste of some good info. I could just tell you to do 500mg twice a day or I can give you the knowledge so you can decide for yourself.
"For people who want to derive the many proven health benefits of metformin, it might be prudent to follow the dosage schedule used by Type II diabetics. According to the Physician's Desk Reference, the starting dose should be 500 mg of metformin twice a day. (An alternative option is 850 mg of metformin once a day).
After one week, increase the dose of metformin to 1000 mg as the first dose of the day and 500 mg as the second dose. After another week, increase to 1000 mg of metformin two times a day. The maximum safe dose described in the Physician's Desk Reference is 2550 mg a day (which should be taken as 850 mg three times a day).
According to the Physician's Desk Reference, clinically significant responses in Type II diabetics are not seen at doses below 1500 mg a day of metformin. Anti-aging doctors, on the other hand, have recommended doses as low as 500 mg twice a day to healthy non-diabetics who are seeking to obtain metformin's other proven benefits such as enhancing insulin sensitivity and reducing excess levels of insulin, glucose, cholesterol and triglycerides in the blood.
It could be the dosage range is highly individualistic in healthy people, meaning some may benefit from 500 mg twice a day, while others may need 1000 mg twice a day for optimal effects. Blood tests to ascertain if the dose of metformin you are taking is improving glucose/insulin metabolism would be:
Hemoglobin A1c
Fasting insulin
CBC/Chemistry panel that includes glucose, cholesterol
triglycerides and indicators of liver and kidney function. "
Good luck and let me know how it works out for you and the wife.

 

[RamboStallone]

I'm not sure who gibro is but here is a copy paste of some good info. I could just tell you to do 500mg twice a day or I can give you the knowledge so you can decide for yourself.
"For people who want to derive the many proven health benefits of metformin, it might be prudent to follow the dosage schedule used by Type II diabetics. According to the Physician's Desk Reference, the starting dose should be 500 mg of metformin twice a day. (An alternative option is 850 mg of metformin once a day).
After one week, increase the dose of metformin to 1000 mg as the first dose of the day and 500 mg as the second dose. After another week, increase to 1000 mg of metformin two times a day. The maximum safe dose described in the Physician's Desk Reference is 2550 mg a day (which should be taken as 850 mg three times a day).
According to the Physician's Desk Reference, clinically significant responses in Type II diabetics are not seen at doses below 1500 mg a day of metformin. Anti-aging doctors, on the other hand, have recommended doses as low as 500 mg twice a day to healthy non-diabetics who are seeking to obtain metformin's other proven benefits such as enhancing insulin sensitivity and reducing excess levels of insulin, glucose, cholesterol and triglycerides in the blood.
It could be the dosage range is highly individualistic in healthy people, meaning some may benefit from 500 mg twice a day, while others may need 1000 mg twice a day for optimal effects. Blood tests to ascertain if the dose of metformin you are taking is improving glucose/insulin metabolism would be:
Hemoglobin A1c
Fasting insulin
CBC/Chemistry panel that includes glucose, cholesterol
triglycerides and indicators of liver and kidney function. "
Good luck and let me know how it works out for you and the wife.

Appreciate all the information brother. I admit I know very little about metfformin. Thanks.

 

[Thaistick]

Appreciate all the information brother. I admit I know very little about metfformin. Thanks.

You're very welcome and I'm glad I could help. That's what I'm here for. To learn and spread the knowledge. The only thing that bothers me is people spreading mis-information. Well that and scammers. And a few other things. Haha.

 

[chainheart]

in my early 50's i have no trouble building muscle and take 750mg metformin with oatmeal and orange juice for breakfast or sometimes pouring oatmeal in scrambled eggs. in evening same amount 750mg metformin amount with a banana or oats at dinner.

an Antioxidants Research Lab at the U.S. Department of Agriculture shows that drinking orange juice with a bowl of real oatmeal cleans your arteries and prevents heart attacks with two times as much efficacy than if you were to ingest either breakfast staple alone. Organic compounds in both foods "phenols" help to stabilize LDL cholesterol when eaten at the same time.

Points to remember:
-blocks some carbs in stomach if taken before meals.
-inhibits liver from making glucose.
-This results in less insulin day in day out and that will increase your sensitivity to it.


"Metformin reduces blood glucose levels primarily by suppressing glucose formation in the liver (hepatic gluconeogenesis).59"

"More importantly, it activates an enzyme called AMPK (amp-activated protein kinase) that plays an important role in insulin signaling, systemic energy balance, and the metabolism of glucose and fats.60"

Metformin Makes Headline News - Life Extension

The Drug Virtually Everyone Should Ask their Doctor About - Life Extension

Stewie who i refer to as the professor notes that you should supplement b12 and CoQ10 to offset negative side effect of metformin depleting them. CoQ10 is best taken with fats (maybe same time you're taking exemestane)

A Practical Guide to Avoiding Drug-Induced Nutrient Depletion | Nutrition Review

Lex: "It reduced my appetite and made getting lean this year the easiest in my history. I also was using GH and know that will f__k with my slin sensitivity with it, I think it corrected that. That and the insurmountable anti aging stuff ranging from neuro protective to everything do to with less overall insulin exposure."

"your pancreas releases less insulin compared to you not taking it. IMO its stronger then everything else and I think stays in system longer.
I could be missing something here but when i run slin, I am off Metformin and don't take any type of GDA. To me it would seem to complicate how I have discovered how to use insulin and not get freaking fat."

As for those that get the "shits" and other GI upsets i have found eating a banana or oatmeal early in the day, again near dinner solved that. Just one or the other did it for me.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...forum/130541-metformin-vs-metformin-sr-2.html

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...14-experienced-users-metformin-berberine.html

 

[G.I.Bro]

It increases ampk and inhibits mtor to some degree. So theoretically, anything that reduces mtor could be considered in opposition to muscle accrual - the question is how much in humans using AAS? Real world, metformin works well for insulin sensitivity (chronic gh users may need it) and doesn't kill gains. Aids with staying lean too and is just plain healthy. People like John Meadows use and have discussed metformin's merits in the past. As Stewie pointed out, the article in OP is not sound.

If you're paranoid, don't use Metformin during your primary gaining phase then use it when you start to lean out, cut cals and need to regain insulin sensitivity after all the power feeding or slin use anyway. I'm personally not convinced it (or Berberine) zaps gains and other's whose opinion I value seem to agree.

 

[asteelz]

increasing ampk is not bad for the bodybuilder ..

 

[SL1CED]

Do these negligble effects really matter if you're on a good, healthy dose of AAS?

I mean that's a variable that's not put into these "studies". I'd say that variable is quite critical.

 

[jasong]

I have been taking 500mg meal 4 and meal 6 for months now for 1000mg a day. These are low or no carb meals. I understand that this med builds up over time with consistent dosing. I'm leaner than ever while in a growing phase and it doesn't seem to be hampering muscle gain.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[nothuman]

Metformin makes me look better, not worse

 

[johnjuanb1]

Stewie while you were on the island who was your favorite Mary Ann or Ginger?

3-ways were known to happen on a daily basis.

 

[johnjuanb1]

It increases ampk and inhibits mtor to some degree. So theoretically, anything that reduces mtor could be considered in opposition to muscle accrual - the question is how much in humans using AAS? Real world, metformin works well for insulin sensitivity (chronic gh users may need it) and doesn't kill gains. Aids with staying lean too and is just plain healthy. People like John Meadows use and have discussed metformin's merits in the past. As Stewie pointed out, the article in OP is not sound.

If you're paranoid, don't use Metformin during your primary gaining phase then use it when you start to lean out, cut cals and need to regain insulin sensitivity after all the power feeding or slin use anyway. I'm personally not convinced it (or Berberine) zaps gains and other's whose opinion I value seem to agree.

if MounainDog uses metformin then it must not slow muscle gains because he is thicker than a brick shit house!!!

I'm interested in this now.

 

[morepain]

I have used it for years as part of my "ward off all the damage I did when I was younger plan" aka longevity plan. I stay on 1000mg daily split in 2 500mg doses. If you are just starting take 250 just one time daily , if no stomach issues go to 500mg one time , creep up on 500mg 2-3 times daily per your preference.

I have suffered zero muscle issues , if anything I look far better now on just 200mg of test weekly than I did years back on grams of Chinese bullshit.

easily maintain 250 without really even trying at 6ft tall , not shredded like JJ or anything like that (props to you) but in pretty damn good shape. keeping in mind that I did do tons of gear for many years (like 25 years) and was around 300 , so maintaining 250 is pretty simple. But I digress...point is no Metformin won't melt the muscle away. I swear the bro-knowledge has become so ridiculous on the boards over especially the last 5 years its almost unbearable.

 

[morepain]

Oh and for the record since I always get asked
I really love brandmedicines.com for my metformin , they ship much faster than most of the other popular sources and its a very simple process.