Pancreatitis

[bg091593]

So last year when I started pushing calories into the 5-6k range (not force feeding by any means) my stomach started having very sharp pains. At first it was ignored and kept pushing until ultimately I stayed up all night rolling in bed in severe pain. Went to the ER and was diagnosed with acute pancreatitis. A year later here I am again, laying in a bed with an IV for fluids. It sucks. Big time. Very worried I won't be able to eat as much as I need to accomplish my goals. It's a scary thought thinking you may be forced to change your bodybuilding goals. My diet now is 6-7 meals, 60p 80c and 15-20f per meal. The diets pretty low in saturated fats. I haven't had a drop of alcohol since New Years too. My cycle is small compared to what I've run in the past as I keep it low in the offseason, 600 test 450 deca and 30mg dbol pre workout. No gh or slin or peptides. The doctors took all my bloodwork and my amylase was double the reference range and my lipase was more than triple the reference range. They performed an ultrasound and didn't see any signs of stones in the gallbladder. I am getting a copy of my bloodwork which included a full metabolic panel as well. The only other thing out of whack was my HDL was 18. I'm going to try to bring that up some but do you think that's the culprit? Anybody with some knowledge or experience with pancreatitis help me out. Calling Stewie!


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[asteelz]

I would be interested in seeing the blood work if your open to share. Those elevated enzymes as you already know indicate pancreatic stress. Does this run in your family by any chance ? Since they Already performed an ultrasound, you could ask for an ERCP if somebody there is socialized and able to do so. No guarantees this will help but it could let them know if you have blockages or narrowing of the ducts in and around your pancreas.

 

[ThinkTank]

For anyone reading this - Pancreatitis is nothing to screw around with. It can easily kill you, and often presents itself with other diagnosis (kidney problems).

Tread carefully...

 

[bg091593]

When I get the paperwork back I will gladly share the bloodwork. It doesn't have a history with my family either. The doctors are stumped (again) and aren't sure what the cause is. The primary Doctor believes it to be a sudden increase in fats in my diet since I was mainly low/no fats for so long the big change shocked my body. I'm going to go down on my fats a bit and hopefully that'll help. Yeah think tank is right, it sucks and is very painful. Rolling around in the ground painful. Thanks for the responses guys. I'll share my bloodwork when I get it, anything in particular you're wanting to see?


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[tenny]

your body is giving you signs......it cannot handle
what you are doing to it....:lightbulb:

this is when you start rethinking things.

 

[Stewie]

Being that this is a recurrent bouts of acute pancreatitis. I'd suggest speaking to your primary care provider for a referral to a gastroenterologist to tease out sphincter of Oddi dysfunction (SOD). As asteelz mentioned, the procedure of an ERCP would help rule out what's triggering the acute bouts. In addition, another procedure done during the ERCP called sphincter of Oddi manometry, will help determine which type of sphincter of Oddi dysfunction you may have.

That's if you do have SOD.

By description of your symptoms and pancreatic enzymes being elevated. This would be my first thought.

Are you taking any proton pump inhibitors or metformin by chance?

Keep us updated.

 

[bg091593]

What's an ERCP? Just so I don't sound like an idiot when I ask for one. No I haven't taken metformin in months and non PPI's either. Yeah Tenny you're telling me, I'm trying to find out my options, can't keep pushing it like this that's for sure.


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[Stewie]

Borland-Groover Info on ERCP and Sphincter of Oddi Manometry

 

[bg091593]

I'm being discharged this afternoon as long as there's no pain after eating lunch. The doc is including a referral to a gastroneurologist to have an endoscopy done. Still haven't gotten a copy of my bloodwork done yet. The doctor said pancreatitis is very common and a lot of times the cause is unknown. Because I'm on a somewhat regimented diet they believe that to be the culprit. Do you think that's the case Stewie or anyone else? Does anyone have any suggestions about what changes I could make with my diet? I talked about my diet in my earlier post. Thanks


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[tenny]

I'm being discharged this afternoon as long as there's no pain after eating lunch. The doc is including a referral to a gastroneurologist to have an endoscopy done. Still haven't gotten a copy of my bloodwork done yet. The doctor said pancreatitis is very common and a lot of times the cause is unknown. Because I'm on a somewhat regimented diet they believe that to be the culprit. Do you think that's the case Stewie or anyone else? Does anyone have any suggestions about what changes I could make with my diet? I talked about my diet in my earlier post. Thanks


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how about the norm for awhile...??? 2200....2400cals.
40-30-30...

 

[bg091593]

God tenny why are you trying to make me a figure competitor?

But seriously yeah I'm going to downsize to 3000-3500 or so and work my way back up.


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[saudades]

So last year when I started pushing calories into the 5-6k range (not force feeding by any means) my stomach started having very sharp pains. At first it was ignored and kept pushing until ultimately I stayed up all night rolling in bed in severe pain. Went to the ER and was diagnosed with acute pancreatitis. A year later here I am again, laying in a bed with an IV for fluids. It sucks. Big time. Very worried I won't be able to eat as much as I need to accomplish my goals. It's a scary thought thinking you may be forced to change your bodybuilding goals. My diet now is 6-7 meals, 60p 80c and 15-20f per meal. The diets pretty low in saturated fats. I haven't had a drop of alcohol since New Years too. My cycle is small compared to what I've run in the past as I keep it low in the offseason, 600 test 450 deca and 30mg dbol pre workout. No gh or slin or peptides. The doctors took all my bloodwork and my amylase was double the reference range and my lipase was more than triple the reference range. They performed an ultrasound and didn't see any signs of stones in the gallbladder. I am getting a copy of my bloodwork which included a full metabolic panel as well. The only other thing out of whack was my HDL was 18. I'm going to try to bring that up some but do you think that's the culprit? Anybody with some knowledge or experience with pancreatitis help me out. Calling Stewie!


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I've had this problem. Had pain ranging from sharp pains now and then to a constant dull pain. Had high values come back on pancreatic enzymes, especially lipase. This led to having my gallbladder function tested because of the very high lipase. Had an ultrasound, no stones, function test came back as inconclusive which meant that it was only working sporadically. Long story short, I ended up having to have my gallbladder taken out. Doing much better now.

 

[tenny]

God tenny why are you trying to make me a figure competitor?

But seriously yeah I'm going to downsize to 3000-3500 or so and work my way back up.


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you can maintain....eat when hungry....til your satisfied....

don't push the cals....i know you you didn't force feed...
but there is fine line...

i had it twice...both times after shows....SUGAR...CARBS..

tighten it up....you can do it.

 

[kid1dakota]

I have chronic and acute pancreatitis due to an injury to my pancreas that occurred in a MVA.I have learned and experienced way more than I ever wanted to about it.

Number one cause is alcohol BUT you are N/A meaning non alcohol induced as you don't drink regularly or this didn't happen after a binge.

Number two is DIET.Think about what they just did for you in the hospital.NPO(nothing by mouth) .I.V. fluids and pain meds.They are shutting down your "hot" pancreas trying to give it a break and let it "cool off" or calm down.

What does the Pancreas do ? releases digestive enzymes(mostly amylase/lipase) in response to food intake. Also insulin in response to intake of carbs and to a small degree amino acids from the protein.

Chances are high its your diet BUT...

Lastly, if signs of some type of blockage indicated which usually shows up with liver numbers or another type of imaging etc... As mentioned an An ERCP can be performed to look for and remove stones, "sludge" or bile blockage and narrowing etc.. they go pretty deep in ducts like the common bile and so on..
Stones can be removed, stints can be put in place during this procedure. And sometimes they find nothing!!

Sometimes genesis is unknown and you just have pancreatitis and need to really watch diet, DONT drink and stay healthy.

ERCP is like a gastro scope but they go deeper and have options to due small procedures if necessary. A problem with them is they can really exacerbate the condition, so they don't just rush to perform them.

Edit: just saw they didn't see signs of stones on ultrasound. Lots of times until they remove it and cut it open,they cant see the stones. Especially large numbers of small ones.

 

[ThinkTank]

I've had this problem. Had pain ranging from sharp pains now and then to a constant dull pain. Had high values come back on pancreatic enzymes, especially lipase. This led to having my gallbladder function tested because of the very high lipase. Had an ultrasound, no stones, function test came back as inconclusive which meant that it was only working sporadically. Long story short, I ended up having to have my gallbladder taken out. Doing much better now.

Has gallbladder removal presented any issues for you to deal with? Bowel control? Food sensitivities?

 

[bg091593]

Thanks for all the help everyone. Not dieting until after the fourth most likely. I still have some dull pain so I'm only eating a few small meals every day. Next week I'm meeting with my primary and he will send me to a gastro. In the meantime I will have to look over my diet... Tenny you mentioned sugar and carbs were the culprit in your case but I was under the assumption that it was diets high in FAT that usually was the culprit. How did you change your diet after you dealt with it and what steps did you take to avoid having it again?

 

[bg091593]

Also since the pancreas is responsible for releasing digestive enzymes would it be beneficial to take a quality digestive emzyme with larger meals?

 

[tenny]

Thanks for all the help everyone. Not dieting until after the fourth most likely. I still have some dull pain so I'm only eating a few small meals every day. Next week I'm meeting with my primary and he will send me to a gastro. In the meantime I will have to look over my diet... Tenny you mentioned sugar and carbs were the culprit in your case but I was under the assumption that it was diets high in FAT that usually was the culprit. How did you change your diet after you dealt with it and what steps did you take to avoid having it again?

well....i craved sugar and carbs when mine came.....after competition
diets BOTH times...

my comp diet norm is almost zero sugar....with some carbs....
moderate fats....mostly GOOD fats

but you could be right....BAD fats could play a major role....
but i just remember lots of sugar.....cheese cake...cookies...cake...
ice cream...ect...

basically....the cravings went away......and just kept a health mind set
after the first one.....then the second one was the same damn thing...
only came much faster....only 3 days after comp....

i was gorging.....ive learned NOT to do this....

 

[bananas007]

I found a layman table for you for the common cause of pancreatitis

I: idiopathic
G: gallstones
E: ethanol (alcohol)
T: trauma
S: steroids
M: mumps (and other infections) / malignancy
A: autoimmune
S: scorpion stings/spider bites
H: hyperlipidaemia/hypercalcaemia/hyperparathyroidism (metabolic disorders)
E: ERCP
D: drugs


There are some other rare causes such as mentioned in this thread but they are extremely rare. see what the gastro says. I doubt he will do an ERCP cause that carries with it its own risks.. It is a procedure that requires a relative large amount of skills, and you dont want just any random gastro trying it out on you. ERCP itself can cause pancreatitis just by the nature of the procedure. If you really want it done, you are better served going to an academic center. Also listen to the specialist doctor and trust what he says and less from us internet folks. We only have book knowledge. The specialist have both book knowledge and real world experience.

All things aside I would place your bodybuilding goals on a hold for a while. Let things settle down. Try to follow a diet they recommended.. Did they tell you to eat low fat diet ?? Usually thats what I have seen recommended in pancreatitis.

 

[kid1dakota]

I found a layman table for you for the common cause of pancreatitis

I: idiopathic
G: gallstones
E: ethanol (alcohol)
T: trauma
S: steroids
M: mumps (and other infections) / malignancy
A: autoimmune
S: scorpion stings/spider bites
H: hyperlipidaemia/hypercalcaemia/hyperparathyroidism (metabolic disorders)
E: ERCP
D: drugs


There are some other rare causes such as mentioned in this thread but they are extremely rare. see what the gastro says. I doubt he will do an ERCP cause that carries with it its own risks.. It is a procedure that requires a relative large amount of skills, and you dont want just any random gastro trying it out on you. ERCP itself can cause pancreatitis just by the nature of the procedure. If you really want it done, you are better served going to an academic center. Also listen to the specialist doctor and trust what he says and less from us internet folks. We only have book knowledge. The specialist have both book knowledge and real world experience.

All things aside I would place your bodybuilding goals on a hold for a while. Let things settle down. Try to follow a diet they recommended.. Did they tell you to eat low fat diet ?? Usually thats what I have seen recommended in pancreatitis.

Lol, That's actually a Mnemonic (series of letters) I GET SMASHED to remember causes of pancreatitis. Used them in school and they work!! also tend to retain the info longer using them.