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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2016, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
So you don't advocate the usage of SERMs for PCT?

Using an AI towards the end of PCT, if T rises too fast, is certainly beneficial.
SERMS leave you with elevated T and elevated E2, this is the opposite of what is ideal for recovery.

Remember there is all that E2 floating around with the SERM, as soon as the SERM is gone, E2 will shut off GNRH instantly AND elevated T will keep converting to E2, keeping GNRH off.

As you are coming off, and test is lowering, you want to keep E2 low too, but you don't want to stimulate more test once test starts dropping below natty levels. A SERM could be used to stave off E2 dominance coming down from a very high T cycle (since AIs can only reduce E2 by about 50%) but you want that SERM gone before the last of the exo T is gone.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2016, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaladryn View Post
SERMS leave you with elevated T and elevated E2, this is the opposite of what is ideal for recovery.

Remember there is all that E2 floating around with the SERM, as soon as the SERM is gone, E2 will shut off GNRH instantly AND elevated T will keep converting to E2, keeping GNRH off.

As you are coming off, and test is lowering, you want to keep E2 low too, but you don't want to stimulate more test once test starts dropping below natty levels. A SERM could be used to stave off E2 dominance coming down from a very high T cycle (since AIs can only reduce E2 by about 50%) but you want that SERM gone before the last of the exo T is gone.
How would you suggest coming off brotha? Would love to hear your opinion
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2016, 08:01 PM
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Nolvadex 20-40 mg per day, and the length of time you use it depends on the strength of the cycle. Clomid is actually a weaker anti estrogen and needs to be dosed higher at 150 mg to achieve the same effect as Nolvadex. Itís very effective, but when factoring in cost
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaladryn View Post
SERMS leave you with elevated T and elevated E2, this is the opposite of what is ideal for recovery.

Remember there is all that E2 floating around with the SERM, as soon as the SERM is gone, E2 will shut off GNRH instantly AND elevated T will keep converting to E2, keeping GNRH off.

As you are coming off, and test is lowering, you want to keep E2 low too, but you don't want to stimulate more test once test starts dropping below natty levels. A SERM could be used to stave off E2 dominance coming down from a very high T cycle (since AIs can only reduce E2 by about 50%) but you want that SERM gone before the last of the exo T is gone.
I've advised tapering off SERMs for a while, even more so when 'gyro reversal' is done (if gyro reversal exists with SERMs).
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by aflo View Post
How would you suggest coming off brotha? Would love to hear your opinion
also curious as to Kaladryn's thoughts. I'm really glad he's back to posting here have always enjoyed his posts
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
You don't need 250mg per day of Clomid.

100mg day 1 is enough, then 50mg/ED for 2 weeks, 3 weeks 25mg/ED.

Nova 40mg/ED week 1, 20mg/ED another 5 weeks.

DAA doesn't work, but the supplement industry will have you believe otherwise. In this study, 6g per day actually reduced total testosterone level in healthy males and 3g had no effect on testosterone markers.

You need HCG on cycle at 250-500ius 2x per week with an AI. I advise to ramp the HCG doubling the dosage for the final 4 shots leading to PCT.
Would the 100mg of clomid be just for the first week?

If you run HCG on cycle and then double up the dosage for the final 4 shots leading to PCT, would you stop it then once cycle is done?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by warlock View Post
Would the 100mg of clomid be just for the first week?

If you run HCG on cycle and then double up the dosage for the final 4 shots leading to PCT, would you stop it then once cycle is done?
First 3 days, then down to 50mg/ED and then 25mg/ED.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
First 3 days, then down to 50mg/ED and then 25mg/ED.
Thanks brother. And no more HCG if you run it during cycle and double up on dosage the last 4 shots leading up to PCT?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by warlock View Post
Thanks brother. And no more HCG if you run it during cycle and double up on dosage the last 4 shots leading up to PCT?
Yes, stop using HCG when in PCT with SERMs and possible AI's.

Use your AI when still using HCG and for the days leading to PCT. Leave final shot of HCG about 3-4 days out from PCT with SERMs.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 08:42 AM
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I have been using this protocol and it seems to work for me.

triptorelin 100mcg day 1 of PCT
Clomid at 100mg first 2 days and then 50mg-wk 2,wk 3-4 25mg
Toremfine at 120mg wk 1 ,60mg wk 2-4


I also run the following to help aid in PCT but not for recovery necessarily.

5ius GH per day
20mg of cials EOD

Eat fucking food and lift heavy weight.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgspin View Post
I have been using this protocol and it seems to work for me.

triptorelin 100mcg day 1 of PCT
Clomid at 100mg first 2 days and then 50mg-wk 2,wk 3-4 25mg
Toremfine at 120mg wk 1 ,60mg wk 2-4


I also run the following to help aid in PCT but not for recovery necessarily.

5ius GH per day
20mg of cials EOD

Eat fucking food and lift heavy weight.
What have you noticed from the triptorelin?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kaladryn View Post
PCT just keeps you stimulated, it does nothing to "restart" anything, believe what you will.

Remember that testosterone stimulating metabolites of clomid stay active for up to 6 weeks.
That is how it seemed to me personally when I would try it. I tried lots of different protocols and none of them really worked for me. It seemed to me that doing the PCT mostly just delayed the crash until a later date. I would crash when I went off the PCT, but the crash was slightly diminished in magnitude.

Tapering off seemed to help me almost as much as doing PCT and I would combine the two. Later on I just cruised in between so that I never crashed but I think that in the long run was unhealthy for me because I was cruising on 3x the normal TRT, taking about 300 mg/wk test.
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Last edited by maldorf; 08-18-2016 at 09:16 AM.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2016, 09:16 AM
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PCT is bull shit!

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2016, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaladryn View Post
SERMS leave you with elevated T and elevated E2, this is the opposite of what is ideal for recovery.

Remember there is all that E2 floating around with the SERM, as soon as the SERM is gone, E2 will shut off GNRH instantly AND elevated T will keep converting to E2, keeping GNRH off.

As you are coming off, and test is lowering, you want to keep E2 low too, but you don't want to stimulate more test once test starts dropping below natty levels. A SERM could be used to stave off E2 dominance coming down from a very high T cycle (since AIs can only reduce E2 by about 50%) but you want that SERM gone before the last of the exo T is gone.
I am in my 4th week of PCT. i have been using 50mg clomid and 20mg nolvadex. I just got my bloodwork done and my test level came back extremely low at 74 my FSH and LH are also completely shut down less than 0.2. Is it safe to say that the pct meds I have are bunk?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2016, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by nwracing View Post
I am in my 4th week of PCT. i have been using 50mg clomid and 20mg nolvadex. I just got my bloodwork done and my test level came back extremely low at 74 my FSH and LH are also completely shut down less than 0.2. Is it safe to say that the pct meds I have are bunk?
I only ever advise pharma ancillaries.

Where are your PCT meds from?

Its likely they're bunk, yes.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2016, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
I only ever advise pharma ancillaries.

Where are your PCT meds from?

Its likely they're bunk, yes.
I pm'd you the brand used. Should I restart my pct? I have pharma grade on the way but wont be able to start a new pct for a few weeks. I hate feeling like this . I am tempted to get back on a trt dose until new meds get here. What do you think? I do want to recover tho eventually.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2016, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nwracing View Post
I pm'd you the brand used. Should I restart my pct? I have pharma grade on the way but wont be able to start a new pct for a few weeks. I hate feeling like this . I am tempted to get back on a trt dose until new meds get here. What do you think? I do want to recover tho eventually.


I know this is a sponsored board and I may get ridiculed for this but I think that if you are using something and it's proven not to work esp with bloodwork and not just by feeling. Then the source should be outed. We are all brothers in the same game. We should try to help one another and prevent each other from making similar mistakes.

Likewise it can help unsuspecting sources and sponsors check quality control from where they are getting raw materials.



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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2016, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by hollaatyaboyy1 View Post
I know this is a sponsored board and I may get ridiculed for this but I think that if you are using something and it's proven not to work esp with bloodwork and not just by feeling. Then the source should be outed. We are all brothers in the same game. We should try to help one another and prevent each other from making similar mistakes.

Likewise it can help unsuspecting sources and sponsors check quality control from where they are getting raw materials.



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Agreed! I was using hcg, clomid, and novladex from Purity Source Labs (Euro Pharmacies)
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2016, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by nwracing View Post
Agreed! I was using hcg, clomid, and novladex from Purity Source Labs (Euro Pharmacies)


Thanks a lot brother.


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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2016, 01:51 AM
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I do a basic 4 week pct protocol
Nolvadex 40402020
Clomid 50505050
And I recently started throwing in gw 501516 as it is non supressive really makes a huge difference for me keeps my mood high and drive. And the added endurance really help me when tryibg to recover.
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