OT is this not legal to do?

[grizzly978]

So basically I have a 91 year old grandfather that is diabetic, and is now in palliative care, I took his blood sugar and it was 451, took it again and it was 445, so this was no mixup, his sugar was that high.

The nurses there are not giving him any medication but painkillers as it is pretty much hospice, I gave him his prescribed insulin dosage because his blood sugar was dangerously high, they basically bitched me out and said "we have to report this to the Doctor"

I didn't know giving a diabetic his prescribed insulin was a big deal, had I known I would not have helped.

 

[little slice]

I doubt anything will come of it

 

[Koolbrainz777]

I would confront that DR. and ask why his blood sugar is not being monitored. He will suffer a stroke and go into shock if it is not managed. You did the right thing in my eye's. and also check to see if they are charging for the slin from the insurance company. I would be pissed. I went through it with my dad before he passed.

 

[ALLEX]

It's sad to hear this...

Say the words "my attorney" a few times and they will be scared. Then confront whoever is responsible for this place about the matter.

 

[maldorf]

From my understanding, they are supposed to make him comfortable and treat any bad symptoms he may be having that cause pain or discomfort. Having a high blood sugar like that should cause discomfort so I don't see anything wrong with what you did and I would talk to the doctors to find out why his blood sugar wasn't being managed.

I don't think you did anything legally wrong.

What Is Palliative Care? Staff, Coverage, Difference From Hospice, and More

 

[Gambel]

It is the standard of care not to aggressively treat diabetes in hospice patients unless they become symptomatic. Remember, he is in palliative care. Maybe schedule some time with his physician just to understand how his diabetes and other comorbidities will be managed. This will give the physician a chance to answer your questions. Your grandfather is lucky to have a loving grandchild like you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[grizzly978]

It is the standard of care not to aggressively treat diabetes in hospice patients unless they become symptomatic. Remember, he is in palliative care. Maybe schedule some time with his physician just to understand how his diabetes and other comorbidities will be managed. This will give the physician a chance to answer your questions. Your grandfather is lucky to have a loving grandchild like you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah they want to have a meeting Monday so they can yell at me for helping, I guess they would rather have someone die due to insane blood sugar levels than give him his insulin, they think high doses or oxycodone takes away all the discomfort.

How someone does not pass away or have a stroke with levels that high is beyond me, I saw severe sweats, shaking , and delirium .....

 

[lynx]

Document everything: dates, insulin levels, correspondences, etc. Tell them you will meet with them after you consult your lawyer. And do talk to one. Also, I would ask for their protocols regarding diabetic patients. I think this is totally irresponsible and disrespectful.

 

[1bigmofo]

It's all about money and reinbursement to the hospice company. Hospice will not want to pay for the insulin or for the nurse to go out there and give 1 shot of insulin a few times a day. If he has paid for the insulin and u can administer it then ask the company if u can continue to administer the insulin. Are u the DPOA? Durable power of attorney? If so they cannot tell u not to give the insulin, but they may tell u they will discontinue hospice/palliative care... I would tell the hospice company that u will continue to pay for the insulin and give it and if they don't like that find another hospice company. Curious...how much did his blood sugar drop after giving the insulin? If I may ask, what's his diagnosis? Legally speaking...u have nothing to worry about.

 

[grizzly978]

It's all about money and reinbursement to the hospice company. Hospice will not want to pay for the insulin or for the nurse to go out there and give 1 shot of insulin a few times a day. If he has paid for the insulin and u can administer it then ask the company if u can continue to administer the insulin. Are u the DPOA? Durable power of attorney? If so they cannot tell u not to give the insulin, but they may tell u they will discontinue hospice/palliative care... I would tell the hospice company that u will continue to pay for the insulin and give it and if they don't like that find another hospice company. Curious...how much did his blood sugar drop after giving the insulin? If I may ask, what's his diagnosis? Legally speaking...u have nothing to worry about.

My father is the DPOA and we wanted to help him as the hospice never said a word about not administering insulin.

Well stage 4 cancer is the diagnosis, he is prescribed 8iu Levemir once daily so that is what I gave him, and his sugar went down within an hour to 140 and the sweating/delirium ceased.

Diabetes when un-treated is a brutal disease, it seems inhumane to not help someone. I could not let someone suffer like that no matter who they are

 

[1bigmofo]

My father is the DPOA and we wanted to help him as the hospice never said a word about not administering insulin.

Well stage 4 cancer is the diagnosis, he is prescribed 8iu Levemir once daily so that is what I gave him, and his sugar went down within an hour to 140 and the sweating/delirium ceased.

Diabetes when un-treated is a brutal disease, it seems inhumane to not help someone. I could not let someone suffer like that no matter who they are

Agreed...when u meet with the dr. Just let him know u will continue to pay for the insulin and u will continue to give the insulin as to keep him comfortable. If the dr. Is not ok with that find another company. Good luck and ur grandfather is in our prayers.

 

[maldorf]

Agreed...when u meet with the dr. Just let him know u will continue to pay for the insulin and u will continue to give the insulin as to keep him comfortable. If the dr. Is not ok with that find another company. Good luck and ur grandfather is in our prayers.

Since his father has DPOA, is there something he could do in writing that would show the doctor that he has permission to administer the insulin? Perhaps that would put their minds at ease. His father should verbally tell them as well. Would they need to have the statement by his father notarized too by a public notary?

 

[1bigmofo]

Since his father has DPOA, is there something he could do in writing that would show the doctor that he has permission to administer the insulin? Perhaps that would put their minds at ease. His father should verbally tell them as well. Would they need to have the statement by his father notarized too by a public notary?

The way this is typically resolved is the hospice company will provide "training" to the person that the DPOA has given permission to to administer the insulin. The dr. Will write an order for "family training for insulin administration." If the pt. is competent with no diagnosis of dementia or Alzheimer's along with being alert and oriented u can have the pt. give permission and notorized to cover ur ass, but he should be fine if the dr. Writes an order for family training regarding insulin administration.

 

[1bigmofo]

Is it just palliative care or is it hospice...is he terminally ill?

Palliative care is a form of hospice, the nurse usually will just see the pt. one time a week.

 

[Bio]

Palliative care is a form of hospice, the nurse usually will just see the pt. one time a week.

I erased my earlier post because I missed the post where he said he had stage 4 cancer.

Also, palliative care isn't just hospice...you don't have to be right at the end of life to have palliative care.

 

[1bigmofo]

I erased my earlier post because I missed the post where he said he had stage 4 cancer.

Also, palliative care isn't just hospice...you don't have to be right at the end of life to have palliative care.

Palliative care is a "level of care" of hospice...but u must have a terminal diagnosis. Pt. on hospice are usually re-certified every 3 months per Medicare guidelines.

 

[get it in ya]

Yeah they want to have a meeting Monday so they can yell at me for helping, I guess they would rather have someone die due to insane blood sugar levels than give him his insulin, they think high doses or oxycodone takes away all the discomfort.

How someone does not pass away or have a stroke with levels that high is beyond me, I saw severe sweats, shaking , and delirium .....

Was it a extra insulin shot you gave him because his sugar was high? If so thats very dangerous. Also my sugar levels have been in the 500-600 range and you dont get the shakes, you will get shakes with low sugar levels

 

[get it in ya]

So basically I have a 91 year old grandfather that is diabetic, and is now in palliative care, I took his blood sugar and it was 451, took it again and it was 445, so this was no mixup, his sugar was that high.

The nurses there are not giving him any medication but painkillers as it is pretty much hospice, I gave him his prescribed insulin dosage because his blood sugar was dangerously high, they basically bitched me out and said "we have to report this to the Doctor"

I didn't know giving a diabetic his prescribed insulin was a big deal, had I known I would not have helped.

also they must know his eating habbits. if he is not eating that much food then insulin is not good if he doesn't take in normal carbs. maybe they didn't give him his insulin because he is not eating. they could give him 5-8 units of regular insulin to drop his glucose level so I do hear what you are saying. my guess is he is not eating well so they didn't give him his insulin dose

 

[grizzly978]

Thanks for all the kind replies and help.
So I was in fact correct, the doctor somehow forgot to list insulin on the palliative care forms of his current medications.

Hopefully my experience can help someone else's loved one down the road, because if I did not question the healthcare facility and their neglect, he would he passed away in a horrible way, that is torture to not give a diabetic their medication.

 

[maldorf]

Thanks for all the kind replies and help.
So I was in fact correct, the doctor somehow forgot to list insulin on the palliative care forms of his current medications.

Hopefully my experience can help someone else's loved one down the road, because if I did not question the healthcare facility and their neglect, he would he passed away in a horrible way, that is torture to not give a diabetic their medication.

Medical mistakes are common and luckily due to your caring and diligence this one was waived off before it became serious. You did a great thing.