Safe approach of PED use

[supertesty]

Hi guys,

I'm surprised a lot of guys judge the safeness of a campound just by the sides effects. I love tren, i love npp but I will take a break from them for a moment because of differents studies. We know lot of articles over-rate the sides but I think a lot of guys under-rate too much too.. I clearly understand lot of guys will don't share my opinion but I think it could be interesting to create a debate about effectiveness/sides and long term sides ratio of some campounds.

Yeah I know if you dont wantto impact your health don't use AAS. The question is not here. The question is not too "don't abuse and have your marker ok" Having markers OK dont mean you are ok and you didn't impact your health. I'm pretty sure after a cycle of DNP then a break your markers are ok, but you ate poison.

The goal of this topic is to highlight the goods and cons of some campounds for those who try to run cycle with minimum impact on the health.


For example : Tren. Tren is the best of AAS imho, lot of bodybuilder and powerlifter like peter rubish use it. I love tren, I have no sides effects on it except sweating. I used it years and years on and off. Put lot of mass quality in short time, burn fat, you can use it for cutting or bulking. Work at low dose, work in calorie deficit, increase slin sensibility (ncbi) and metabolic rate, seems to have no impact on heart if dose are not too high (ncbi). However, its pretty harsh on hpta, elevate prolactine, contribute to neurodegeneration (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25461682 )

Nandrolone Deca and NPP : Very strong mass builder, put lot of strenght, no sides if test is present. However, very harsh on hpta and metabolites, damage 11x more blood vessels than test.

Some guys use DNP, clen...some story.

Some guys here run tren 1 time a year during a short period, I don't think its very harmfull, we talk here about long and multiple cycles per year during few years.

Problem with these campounds is we haven't got a lot of feedbacks from long term users. It could be interesting to have the opinion of experienced guys.

I noticed a lot of guys who run test only because of their consideration about sides from tren or other campounds, run high amount of test. But maybe this amount of test is harsher than low dose of test with low dose of tren ?

I know soùe guys here try to have the more benefits from ped using and take care about these sides.

Share your opinion guys

 

[Dezzy]

There is no size fits all approach in my experience. People respond so differently to different drugs. Tren wasn't that harsh to me I did sweat like a bitch and had some other sides but not nearly as bad as some have described.

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[nothuman]

The problem is most people run these things way too long. That's generally worse than high dosing for a short period of time. People have a fear of losing muscle so they will stay on these things for 6 months+. That's 6 months of your health going to shit, rather than 8 weeks, which is generally when myostatin happens and you plateau.

 

[supertesty]

The problem is most people run these things way too long. That's generally worse than high dosing for a short period of time. People have a fear of losing muscle so they will stay on these things for 6 months+. That's 6 months of your health going to shit, rather than 8 weeks, which is generally when myostatin happens and you plateau.

interesting. so how do you cycle man ? b&c ? do you use hgh ?

 

[devenidas]

The problem is most people run these things way too long. That's generally worse than high dosing for a short period of time. People have a fear of losing muscle so they will stay on these things for 6 months+. That's 6 months of your health going to shit, rather than 8 weeks, which is generally when myostatin happens and you plateau.

BigDog can you please enlighten me on when u say "Myostatin happens" . I know a subject will plateau and cant be running high dosages etc but what happens to the Myostatin? Thanks mate

 

[eaglecall]

The approach of the OP is correct IMO. These are drugs. Drugs are poison. If you put anabolic steroids on a perfectly healthy individual, you re literally poisoning that body. Period. Simple as that. Is simple logic. Most anabolic steroids were developed to treat a specific condition at doses WAY lower than those used in bodybuilding.

Now with that being said is a matter of building up based on that logic. The best way to go IMO is to use low doses and get content blood tests. All this of course once the proper nutrient program is in place. Without the right nutrients, THERE IS NO WAY the body can protect itself from the catastrophic oxidative damage caused by these drugs. Only after diet is on point, essential nutrients are completely covered, then low doses can be applied and blood tests can be performed. That would be the safest approach to use steroids.

 

[nothuman]

interesting. so how do you cycle man ? b&c ? do you use hgh ?

I don't really push it anymore. Occasional test blast here and there. On 700mg now and about to get back on TRT. I do use HGH at certain times of the year but not in high doses. I paid the price back in the day using test and tren for very long periods of time. All that time with high blood pressure = very bad.

BigDog can you please enlighten me on when u say "Myostatin happens" . I know a subject will plateau and cant be running high dosages etc but what happens to the Myostatin? Thanks mate

There was a big study a few years back showing myostatin levels increase around the 8 week mark, or something like that. In real life experience, I think most of us would agree gains halt around that point (give or take). I think mostly all of us can say the results from week 1-8 are superior to week 9-16. Therefore, why not replenish your health after 8 weeks, then kick back on TRT for a while before blasting again? It's a less unhealthy approach.

 

[supertesty]

I don't really push it anymore. Occasional test blast here and there. On 700mg now and about to get back on TRT. I do use HGH at certain times of the year but not in high doses. I paid the price back in the day using test and tren for very long periods of time. All that time with high blood pressure = very bad.



There was a big study a few years back showing myostatin levels increase around the 8 week mark, or something like that. In real life experience, I think most of us would agree gains halt around that point (give or take). I think mostly all of us can say the results from week 1-8 are superior to week 9-16. Therefore, why not replenish your health after 8 weeks, then kick back on TRT for a while before blasting again? It's a less unhealthy approach.

How much time do you stay on trt dose man ? and what campound do you choose for your blast ?

 

[southoftheborder]

The approach of the OP is correct IMO. These are drugs. Drugs are poison. If you put anabolic steroids on a perfectly healthy individual, you re literally poisoning that body. Period. Simple as that. Is simple logic. Most anabolic steroids were developed to treat a specific condition at doses WAY lower than those used in bodybuilding.

Now with that being said is a matter of building up based on that logic. The best way to go IMO is to use low doses and get content blood tests. All this of course once the proper nutrient program is in place. Without the right nutrients, THERE IS NO WAY the body can protect itself from the catastrophic oxidative damage caused by these drugs. Only after diet is on point, essential nutrients are completely covered, then low doses can be applied and blood tests can be performed. That would be the safest approach to use steroids.

All drugs have side effects. Some more than others. And one can argue that these side effects are mostly negative for our health in the long term. But I would not call testosterone "poison". I think testosterone, in low dosages, can actually contribute to a better health for older males with low test.

Even the bodybuilder who does test only cycles at around 600mg/week does not risk damaging is health in my opinion.

Regular blood tests for all users is the key.

Competitive bodybuilding gear use is a complete other matter.

 

[southoftheborder]

Hi guys,

I'm surprised a lot of guys judge the safeness of a campound just by the sides effects. I love tren, i love npp but I will take a break from them for a moment because of differents studies. We know lot of articles over-rate the sides but I think a lot of guys under-rate too much too.. I clearly understand lot of guys will don't share my opinion but I think it could be interesting to create a debate about effectiveness/sides and long term sides ratio of some campounds.

Yeah I know if you dont wantto impact your health don't use AAS. The question is not here. The question is not too "don't abuse and have your marker ok" Having markers OK dont mean you are ok and you didn't impact your health. I'm pretty sure after a cycle of DNP then a break your markers are ok, but you ate poison.

The goal of this topic is to highlight the goods and cons of some campounds for those who try to run cycle with minimum impact on the health.


For example : Tren. Tren is the best of AAS imho, lot of bodybuilder and powerlifter like peter rubish use it. I love tren, I have no sides effects on it except sweating. I used it years and years on and off. Put lot of mass quality in short time, burn fat, you can use it for cutting or bulking. Work at low dose, work in calorie deficit, increase slin sensibility (ncbi) and metabolic rate, seems to have no impact on heart if dose are not too high (ncbi). However, its pretty harsh on hpta, elevate prolactine, contribute to neurodegeneration (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25461682 )

Nandrolone Deca and NPP : Very strong mass builder, put lot of strenght, no sides if test is present. However, very harsh on hpta and metabolites, damage 11x more blood vessels than test.

Some guys use DNP, clen...some story.

Some guys here run tren 1 time a year during a short period, I don't think its very harmfull, we talk here about long and multiple cycles per year during few years.

Problem with these campounds is we haven't got a lot of feedbacks from long term users. It could be interesting to have the opinion of experienced guys.

I noticed a lot of guys who run test only because of their consideration about sides from tren or other campounds, run high amount of test. But maybe this amount of test is harsher than low dose of test with low dose of tren ?

I know soùe guys here try to have the more benefits from ped using and take care about these sides.

Share your opinion guys

I would think that injectable testosterone and injectable primo are the safest AS out there.

In second place I would put deca and equipoise.

Then follows anavar, dball,

I would put tren after those two orals for its negative effect on cholesterol, blood pressure AND very uncomfortable sides/mood altering effects (for a lot of people).

I think Winstrol, Anadrol are the compounds with the most negative effects on your health.

I dont know enough about Superdrol to rank it. Never tried it and never read about it.

In the end, I think moderation is key to avoid any serious health problems. If you are smart about it (what you use/how long/how much), take the proper health supplements and use blood tests to guide you, you can use gear long term without any health problems. Its been my personal experience.

 

[eaglecall]

All drugs have side effects. Some more than others. And one can argue that these side effects are mostly negative for our health in the long term. But I would not call testosterone "poison". I think testosterone, in low dosages, can actually contribute to a better health for older males with low test.

Even the bodybuilder who does test only cycles at around 600mg/week does not risk damaging is health in my opinion.

Regular blood tests for all users is the key.

Competitive bodybuilding gear use is a complete other matter.

Well, theres multiple class action lawsuits as we speak against TRT. Is not as safe as it once was thought. ALL DRUGS, yes are poison. ALL of them without exception. Drugs only treat conditions, they don't cure. Nothing can replace the capacity of the body repair and rebuild tissue. The fact that so many men suffer from low testosterone symptoms these days is only caused by nutrient deficiency throughout a lifetime and environmental factors. Is not a gene defect or a curse. Testosterone true, it will improve a lot of things, but its only TREATING, not curing along with all of its side effects.

The endocrine system is extremely complex. Theres dozens of hormones involved in perfect balance with each other. Throwing test in the body completely disrupt that balance. Is not magic. I guess in todays world, "is better than nothing" because thats how deplorable our medical system is. Corrupt biased medical science.

 

[DarkBeast]

The problem is most people run these things way too long. That's generally worse than high dosing for a short period of time. People have a fear of losing muscle so they will stay on these things for 6 months+. That's 6 months of your health going to shit, rather than 8 weeks, which is generally when myostatin happens and you plateau.

Yep...no need for crazy long cycles at high dosages

 

[sub7percent]

Well, theres multiple class action lawsuits as we speak against TRT. Is not as safe as it once was thought. ALL DRUGS, yes are poison. ALL of them without exception. Drugs only treat conditions, they don't cure. Nothing can replace the capacity of the body repair and rebuild tissue. The fact that so many men suffer from low testosterone symptoms these days is only caused by nutrient deficiency throughout a lifetime and environmental factors. Is not a gene defect or a curse. Testosterone true, it will improve a lot of things, but its only TREATING, not curing along with all of its side effects.



The endocrine system is extremely complex. Theres dozens of hormones involved in perfect balance with each other. Throwing test in the body completely disrupt that balance. Is not magic. I guess in todays world, "is better than nothing" because thats how deplorable our medical system is. Corrupt biased medical science.

Eaglecall - I read a lot of your posts and appreciate your opinion/perspective, thanks for sharing. Question on what you've said above regarding TRT: what would the negative impacts be of replacing endogenous testosterone with exogenous? If we are merely inserting the same endogenously produced substance into the body at the same doses that are naturally produced endogenously, I am thinking that the main/only potential negative impact would be HPTA "shutdown" so to speak. I would then think that - to the extent we don't care about pinning test for life - the negative impact would be other effects (some unknown potentially) of decreased HPTA function.

I would like to get your thoughts on this. Thanks.



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[Crom]

Well, theres multiple class action lawsuits as we speak against TRT. Is not as safe as it once was thought. ALL DRUGS, yes are poison. ALL of them without exception. Drugs only treat conditions, they don't cure. Nothing can replace the capacity of the body repair and rebuild tissue. The fact that so many men suffer from low testosterone symptoms these days is only caused by nutrient deficiency throughout a lifetime and environmental factors. Is not a gene defect or a curse. Testosterone true, it will improve a lot of things, but its only TREATING, not curing along with all of its side effects.

The endocrine system is extremely complex. Theres dozens of hormones involved in perfect balance with each other. Throwing test in the body completely disrupt that balance. Is not magic. I guess in todays world, "is better than nothing" because thats how deplorable our medical system is. Corrupt biased medical science.

No, all drugs are NOT poison! Where in the world did you get that idea from? Do you even know the definition of poison? Here is the definition:

"a substance that can cause people or animals to die or to become very sick if it gets into their bodies especially by being swallowed"

Now if you mean that taking a overdose of any substance can be detrimental for your health then yes, that is correct but that is because of the dose, not the drug itself. You have to differentiate between the drug itself and the dosage. Poison is detrimental no matter how tiny the dose, testosterone is not. (PS! There are actually poisons we use in medicine that are not detrimental to our health like Botox).

In the vast majority of cases TRT/HRT is healthy and provide huge benefits for the person receiving it. There are however some people who will have problems with it and vulture lawyers will jump on the possibility to make money as the american system allows them to. These poeple could just have dicsontinued the TRT and moved on but instead they make something that is helping men in older age be seen as risky when the overwhelming amount of evidence shows larger risks with low test levels.

We all know AAS comes with it's risks, this topic has been beaten to death here multiple times, every person is responsible for him or herself and there is no excuse since there is a ton of information out there.

 

[supertesty]

Actually I dont understand how my thread turn like a topic for paranoïds lol
Poison ? I dont think.

The goal of this forum is to talk about aas, not to blame it as the level. We are not on a natty board. We know the risks.

The goal of this topic is to show how to gain muscles/improve body comp with minimum sides and impact on the health. A lot of things can have a negative impact on health : stress, not enough sleep, anxiety, alcohol, bad foods or non organic food, even organic food maybe.

I'll ask a question to refocus on the debate : What about high test cycle of 16weeks with hgh verses small dose of tren, moderate test and small dose of hgh.

I think the key is to avoid long cycle with high dosage. IMHO im pretty sure high dose on a short period of time is safer.
What about adding some supps/meds to promote health : we talk on PM about metformin.
Adding cardio, being on low carbs diet and push high carb meal once a week.

The goal of this topic is to promote methods and chemical aids to continue to put mass and limit impact on health.

 

[buck]

If yo want to know how much damage you may be doing take your blood pressure and get blood work done during the cycle. Blood work after a cycle will show if you are recovering/recovered from the damage.

 

[1234trew]

The idea of safe can be thrown out the window when we are talking about ug compounds made with powders from China.
Personally I think that the risk of impurities in the manufacturing process (both in powder and ultimately oils) poses the realest health risk (both immediately and in the future).

 

[LK3]

The approach of the OP is correct IMO. These are drugs. Drugs are poison. If you put anabolic steroids on a perfectly healthy individual, you re literally poisoning that body. Period. Simple as that. Is simple logic. Most anabolic steroids were developed to treat a specific condition at doses WAY lower than those used in bodybuilding.

Now with that being said is a matter of building up based on that logic. The best way to go IMO is to use low doses and get content blood tests. All this of course once the proper nutrient program is in place. Without the right nutrients, THERE IS NO WAY the body can protect itself from the catastrophic oxidative damage caused by these drugs. Only after diet is on point, essential nutrients are completely covered, then low doses can be applied and blood tests can be performed. That would be the safest approach to use steroids.

what???

drugs are poison???

where does this come from?

most here would not be alive without DRUGS!

drugs in general

aas do not always equal bad...
true trt???

test is not toxic
if we compare it to many drugs its quite safe.

people are the problem.

lol
the mentality of many/most people is toxic.

leave the poor drugs alone.

they do not bother anybody solo.

 

[LK3]

No, all drugs are NOT poison! Where in the world did you get that idea from? Do you even know the definition of poison? Here is the definition:

"a substance that can cause people or animals to die or to become very sick if it gets into their bodies especially by being swallowed"

Now if you mean that taking a overdose of any substance can be detrimental for your health then yes, that is correct but that is because of the dose, not the drug itself. You have to differentiate between the drug itself and the dosage. Poison is detrimental no matter how tiny the dose, testosterone is not. (PS! There are actually poisons we use in medicine that are not detrimental to our health like Botox).

In the vast majority of cases TRT/HRT is healthy and provide huge benefits for the person receiving it. There are however some people who will have problems with it and vulture lawyers will jump on the possibility to make money as the american system allows them to. These poeple could just have dicsontinued the TRT and moved on but instead they make something that is helping men in older age be seen as risky when the overwhelming amount of evidence shows larger risks with low test levels.

We all know AAS comes with it's risks, this topic has been beaten to death here multiple times, every person is responsible for him or herself and there is no excuse since there is a ton of information out there.

lol
glad someone beat me to this. lol
didn't see it before. I was in shock. :banghead:

I think a big part of the problem with aas is we go from hearing that they are the devil to seeing dumb shit on the internet about how relatively safe they are...

the real problem is people failing to do more work then 3 mins on google.

 

[1fst400]

I'm a big fan of William Llewellyn's work ie "Anabolics" (coming out with 11th edition soon btw!)

Harm reduction techniques are key if you want to dabble in this and live a healthy life. Bodybuilders today have a much shorter life expectancy than those from the 60's and 70's (and those guys looked fucking awesome). Shit Arnold and Lou are still going at it! Anyway, I agree dose and cycle length are a big key but also some of the other bullshit people are doing these days like insulin and fucking DNP. To each is own, but the point is that the longer you go, the higher you go, and the more dangerous compounds you select are going to stack the odds against your health. I'm 38 with a wife and 2 kids. I wanna be around for awhile and have no aspirations of being a Pro. My 2 cents.