Fat loss and AAS..Let's talk about! (Is there some real truth?)

[Vision]

(I seen a few topics lately regarding this and I figured I would share my insight along with some clinical studies, so Let's hear some feedback some some of the solids here,I'm sure some can add or possibly explain in greater detail, or share experience)


Over the years there's been massive debates, and of lately there's been some discussions in many of the panels in regards to AAS and fat loss..Some in the gear world populace are advocating that there's "no such thing", or AAS don't burn fat..

So, let's discuss this... (AAS only, no stims or bata's,or GH)

Now, you're gonna hear mix reviews on this.. However, I have seen enough evidence that supports AAS having,creating a environment/platform for fat burning..DIET without a doubt is crucial, and the pivotal player..However, there is real science behind fat loss and AAS, but please don't put all your money on it solely as an effective combatant..But nonetheless AAS is effective!

AAS that are seen/recognized on the high/or moderate androgenic scale will in fact promote/increase lypolysis..Thus andros have a higher binding affinity to AR's..

FYI; Androgen receptors are found throughout cellular groups, as well as FAT and muscle cell/groups, now we know that they initiate a response on AR's in muscle cells to promote size/growth, at the same given time they will have a cascade of effects on other cells and AR's found therein fat cells inducing activity/burning..

Higher/more potent the androgen binds to the androgen receptors, the greater the lipolytic response will be on adipose tissue (brown or white)...

Now lets also take into great consideration AR upregulation with the presence of androgens, more AR sites throughout targeting tissue..,There's a vast amount of activity in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms and signaling between cell groups, what People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..Depending on the compounds and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events.. So, the notion that fat loss is NOT presence, and to mitigate that AAS don't posses any fat loss properties is absurd...

So, yes AAS may assist with fat loss, however don't expect miracles and it's advised to have a lower body fat% by diet to expect to see more fat loss effects, but its not crucial..Have your macro's dialed in with your AAS intake, cardio ,and anything is possible, we've seen amazing things happen in this lifestyle..Even a couch potato can see results (whether it's deserving or not is a completely different topic)

There's an abundance of clinical research and peer-reviewed data that strongly supports testosterone (and other AAS) fat reducing actions and its preventative impact on adipocyte generation...As AAS (especially Testosterone) acts both in the breakdown of existing fat tissue and to hinder pre-adipocytes from maturing.

This is where some AAS began you acquire there reputation, or spin a myth (winstrol) at promoting fat loss, and achieve lower body fat,cuts..With this said, there's some truth behind winstrol and cuts, but not directly!

Share you thoughts and experience with this!

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Below is some studies conducted in fat loss, one in particular stresses the relation with diet and TRT and others just on a placebo and diet...The outcome is astonishing!!

Testosterone Treatment Combined With Diet Reduces Fat, Maintains Muscle

April 5, 2016

By Frances Morin

BOSTON -- April 5, 2016 -- Obese men treated with testosterone in addition to a low-calorie diet show greater reduction in body fat and less loss of muscle mass than men on similar diets who did not receive testosterone, according to a study presented here at the 98th Annual Meeting of the Endocrine Society (ENDO).
“In men successfully losing weight through diet, both lean and fat mass are lost,” said Mark Ng Tang Fui, MBBS, BMedSc, The University of Melbourne, Heidelberg, Australia, on April 3.
“The addition of testosterone prevents the loss of lean mass and shifts weight loss to almost exclusive loss of fat,” he added.
Obesity has been linked to lower testosterone levels, whereas weight loss resulting from calorie restriction is linked to increases in circulating testosterone, noted the researchers. At the same time, weight loss in middle-aged men typically depletes fat and muscle.
Although testosterone treatment has been also shown to reduce fat mass, the effects of combining testosterone treatment with calorie restriction have not been demonstrated.
For the study, the researchers enrolled 100 obese men (body mass index [BMI], >30 kg/m2), aged 18 to 75 years, with low to low-normal serum total testosterone levels (average of 2 consecutive morning fasting levels of <12 nmol/L [<346 ng/dL]).
The men were all placed on a very-low-calorie diet (~600 kcal/day) for 10 weeks, followed by a maintenance period of 46 weeks. They were randomised 1:1 in a blinded fashion to receive intramuscular testosterone 1,000 mg or placebo injections at baseline, week 6, and every 6 weeks thereafter over the 56 weeks of the study.
At the study’s end, weight loss in both groups was similar, ie, an average of 11 kg (24.2 lb; P < .05 vs baseline). However, patients in the testosterone group lost 3 kg (6.6 lb) more body fat than those in the placebo group (P = .05) and lost significantly less lean mass than those in the placebo group (P = .001).
Patients in the testosterone group also lost significantly more visceral adipose tissue at week 56 (P < .05).
“We found that testosterone treatment reduces fat mass in obese men with a low testosterone level, more than the effects of diet alone,” concluded Dr. Fui. “Testosterone treatment also reduces visceral fat, more than the effects of diet alone, and prevents diet-associated loss of lean mass and muscle function.”
“Although these changes are expected to be metabolically favourable, further trials in this population need to determine cardiometabolic and other benefits weighed against potential adverse effects,” Dr. Fui added.
[Presentation title: Effect of Testosterone Therapy Combined With a Very Low Caloric Diet on Fat Mass in Obese Men With a Low to Low-Normal Testosterone Level: A Randomized Controlled Trial. Abstract LB-OR02-1]

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Testosterone therapy in hypogonadal men results in sustained and clinically meaningful weight loss

Abstract

WHAT IS ALREADY KNOWN ABOUT THIS SUBJECT:

Hypogonadism is associated with increased fat mass and reduced muscle mass, which contributes to obesity and health risks, such as cardiovascular disease.Testosterone treatment of hypogonadal men improves muscle mass and reduces fat mass; however, many of these studies are of short duration.Thus, the long-term effects of testosterone on body anthropometry are not known.

WHAT THIS STUDY ADDS:

Long-term testosterone treatment of hypogonadal men, up to 5 years duration, produced marked and significant decrease in body weight, waist circumference and body mass index. Hypogonadism contributes to reduced muscle mass and increased adiposity.Testosterone treatment ameliorates loss of muscle mass and reduces fat accumulation associated with hypogonadism. In this study, we evaluated the long-term effects of normalizing testosterone (T) levels in hypogonadal men on anthropometric parameters. Open-label, single-center, cumulative, prospective registry study of 261 men (32-84 years, mean 59.5 ± 8.4 years, with T levels ***8804;12 nmol L-1 [mean: 7.7 ± 2.1]). Among the 261 men on T treatment, we followed up on 260 men for at least 2 years, 237 for 3 years, 195 for 4 years and 163 for at least 5 years. Subjects received parenteral T undecanoate 1000 mg every 12 weeks after an initial interval of 6 weeks. Body weight (BW), waist circumference (WC) and body mass index (BMI) were measured at baseline and yearly after treatment with T. BW decreased from 100.1 ± 14.0 kg to 92.5 ± 11.2 kg and WC was reduced from 107.7 ± 10.0 cm to 99.0 ± 9.1 cm. BMI declined from 31.7 ± 4.4 m kg-2 to 29.4 ± 3.4 m kg-2. All parameters examined were statistically significant vs. baseline and vs. the previous year over 5 years, indicating a continuous weight loss (WL) over the full observation period. The mean per cent WL was 3.2 ± 0.3% after 1 year, 5.6 ± 0.3%, after 2 years, 7.5 ± 0.3% after 3 years, 9.1 ± 0.3% after 4 years and 10.5 ± 0.4% after 5 years. The data obtained from this uncontrolled, observational, registry study suggest that raising serum T to normal physiological levels in hypogonadal men produces consistent loss in BW, WC and BMI. These marked improvements were progressive over the 5 years of the study.


KEYWORDS:

Testosterone, obesity, waist circumference, weight loss

PMID: 24163704 [PubMed] PMCID: PMC3799011 Free PMC Article

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...03-0073-f1.jpg

 

[anabolicraw]

Great reading. I received a message from you on Sunday. I sent you a reply. Did you receive it?

 

[p-lethal]

over two years i competed natty and enhanced. natty was much more difficult. i never missed a meal/training/cardio for 16 weeks and yes i got peeled but loss muscle towards the end. one year later and enhanced iwas ready 4 weeks early and needed two cheats per week to slowly the weight loss


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[doug1]

I've dieted with Tren and without, everything else being pretty much equal. Lost way more on Tren, than without.

 

[FrancisK]

I know the general rule is don't use AAS thinking you're going to lose fat but that never made sense to me because I always lose a lot more fat on AAS than without. In my mind I justified it as just my body looking better and not technically losing fat although I only say that because again the general consensus is AAS doesn't make you lose fat.

But if AAS is like putting your "engine" into overdrive which burns calories and it's creating muscle which also helps with fat then how does AAS not burn fat?

Someone more knowledgeable than me needs to explain that, maybe I'm way off base and speaking too generally.

 

[tri-terror]

Tren has magic like nutrition partitioning abilitys... and var I swear melts belly fat

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[xander.angelov]

Tren has magic like nutrition partitioning abilitys... and var I swear melts belly fat

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I second that - Tren always helps fat lost and hardening.. Well let's just say it - positively influences body composition

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[Love_to_Bodybuild]

if you start using test at 2,700 calories , youll build some muscle and reduce bodyfat. Of course to gain more youll have to up calories but now a days im really looking for for smaller changes like same weight but 2 lbs less bodyfat and 2 lbs more muscle in the right places =-)

something like tren most likely as its highly androgenic

 

[2swole79]

I've always felt like this isn't really fairly debated....do AAS directly burn fat? Tren does....others, ehhh maybe "assist" and yeah on paper they can, but not significant amounts....What AAS does that burns significant fat, is exactly what the poster above stated....compared to natural, you can increase your training volume, cardio..etc (caloric expenditure) and you can diet deeper, more severely without losing muscle the way you would very uickly drop all the muscle you'd gained in a severe caloric deficiet, higher volume, lots of cardio type program....to me that's how AAS burn fat, not neccessarily on their own directly, but used the right way, damn right they do.

 

[Vision]

In OP at top - Androgen receptors are found throughout cellular groups, as well as FAT and muscle cell/groups, now we know that they initiate a response on AR's in muscle cells to promote size/growth, at the same given time they will have a cascade of effects on other cells and AR's found therein fat cells inducing activity/burning.. Most AAS will increase the metabolic rate, thus the activation in "WAT"..

and in OP at top - Now lets also take into great consideration AR upregulation with the presence of androgens, more AR sites throughout targeting tissue..,There's a vast amount of activity in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms and signaling between cell groups, what People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..Depending on the compounds and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events.. So, the notion that fat loss is NOT presence, and to mitigate that AAS don't posses any fat loss properties is absurd...

Think about this!

Some steroids such as tren, test will induce thermogenesis,where there is increased body heat, there is fat loss!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15910167
Steroids and thermogenesis.

Abstract
Apart from thyroid hormones, as the main hormonal regulators of obligatory thermogenesis, and catecholamines, as major hormonal regulators of facultative thermogenesis, production of heat in homeotherms can also be influenced by steroids. Generally, hormones can influence heat production by regulating the activity of various enzymes of oxidative metabolism, by modulating membrane protein carriers and other membrane or nuclear protein factors. Proton carriers in the inner mitochondrial membrane, known as uncoupling proteins, play the key role in heat dissipation to the detriment of the formation of energy-rich phosphates. In this minireview we have focused on the effects of steroids and thyroid hormones on heat production in brown adipose tissues and in skeletal muscles, with particular respect to their effect on uncoupling protein expression. Apart from hormonal steroids, dehydroepiandrosterone, an important precursor in the metabolic pathway leading to hormonal steroids which possess many, mostly beneficial effects on human health, modulates metabolic pathways which may lead to increased heat production. Recent studies demonstrate that 7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone, one of its 7-oxygenated metabolites, is even more effective than dehydroepiandrosterone. Recent findings of various actions of these steroids support the view that they may also participate in modulating thermogenic effects.

 

[NGL34]

tren and var are the only ones where I do believe they directly helped with a reduction in subq abdominal fat.

 

[yomane]

I bulked on tren and got leaner at the same time the first 4 weeks, and then fat loss stopped.

 

[Iron_Mike]

Test alone I haven't seen a difference in that dept. at trt doses, everones different tho

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[alfa]

First post on the site gentlemen so a big hello to you all. Always found that tren, winny (stanozolol) and anavar have definitely helped with fat loss, but have only taken them when cutting so there has been no control for me.

 

[p-lethal]

tren and var are the only ones where I do believe they directly helped with a reduction in subq abdominal fat.

ive noticed very similar fat loss results with npp.


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[Sevn]

I also hear alot of guys saying they nuke their estro the last few weeks and up the cardio/drop calories to get rid of the last bits of stubborn fat.

I understand upping the cardio and dropping the calories to get the last few bits of fats of but what has nuking your estrogen/holding less water has to do with burning more fat?

Ofcourse you look drier whilst holding less water but will you actually burn more bodyfat if you're holding less water?

 

[nothuman]

I always scratch my head when someone says AAS don't help burn fat. Of course they do. It's common sense.

 

[itconsulting]

I also hear alot of guys saying they nuke their estro the last few weeks and up the cardio/drop calories to get rid of the last bits of stubborn fat.

I understand upping the cardio and dropping the calories to get the last few bits of fats of but what has nuking your estrogen/holding less water has to do with burning more fat?

Ofcourse you look drier whilst holding less water but will you actually burn more bodyfat if you're holding less water?

From what i understand, being in a low E2 environment promote lipolysis

 

[Vision]

I'm not trying to crush estrogen for fat loss...no thanks...my diet can do that just fine..

Controlling estrogen for water prior to show is one thing, but crushing?!? Fuck that... natural diuretics are my options with estrogen control...