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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2017, 07:16 PM
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This new research says recovery is possible for steroid users but their PCT was a few months of clomid and before that mega doses of HCG, 10k ius a week for 2 months

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854084/
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2017, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3mo0101 View Post
My friend was on for 20 years and just came off. Took about 5 months but his test levels are fine now. So yes, you can recover. I'm not sure about his fertility. He took HCG for most of the time he was on cycle he said.
Yes, I think recovery is possible, but I believe most guys are just impatient and say "screw it" and jump back on after a couple of months (or less).

I've spoken with a large number of guys who jumped into the lifestyle for a while, blasted some big doses, then got married/had kids/ fell out of the lifestyle to the point where they don't even lift anymore, and not a single one has said they still have issues with "low testosterone," etc.... Sure, not a single one of them has ever gotten bloodwork, but if going by "feel (feeling good and not run down)" and the ability to impregnate their wives, they are "recovered" for all intents and purposes.

Again, that is all of them just going by how they "feel" for the most part..
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Last edited by 11111; 10-13-2017 at 09:49 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:54 AM
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Is there a way to order a semen analysis without getting a script from the doctor? Something like direct labs where you can purchase tests and head to Labcorp or quest?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 04:51 AM
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My doc prescribes 200mg a week of test for almost 10 years now. Keeps me ďgoodĒ. I usually blast in spring and summer and then go back to my steady 200. While Iím recovering from surgery now ( no training, not eating much) I wanted to experiment with a lower dose at 100/week for a few weeks and then completely drop it and use just HCG for about 6 weeks then go back to trt at 100/week and see what my bloodwork shows.

Why? Kinda just reset receptors maybe, cleanout maybe, have my nuts comeback maybe lol. In my mind itís a good idea just as sort of a rest. I donít think I can ever be natty again but can anyone tell me if my reasoning for doing this is sound. Giving myself a break so to speak and see what happens.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 05:07 AM
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Great post and my thoughts exactly on why I am doing it as well.

Keep us posted when you find out!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BALDNAZI View Post
My doc prescribes 200mg a week of test for almost 10 years now. Keeps me ďgoodĒ. I usually blast in spring and summer and then go back to my steady 200. While Iím recovering from surgery now ( no training, not eating much) I wanted to experiment with a lower dose at 100/week for a few weeks and then completely drop it and use just HCG for about 6 weeks then go back to trt at 100/week and see what my bloodwork shows.

Why? Kinda just reset receptors maybe, cleanout maybe, have my nuts comeback maybe lol. In my mind itís a good idea just as sort of a rest. I donít think I can ever be natty again but can anyone tell me if my reasoning for doing this is sound. Giving myself a break so to speak and see what happens.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by herculeus View Post
Great post and my thoughts exactly on why I am doing it as well.

Keep us posted when you find out!
Listen Iíd love to go natural but I think itís too late for me now. Didnít want to hijack the thread but figured guys would give me an answer if my thinking was sound for just a reboot of my system. I had no problem with your posts as well, thatís what we are here for...discuss, learn and bounce ideas off each other.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BALDNAZI View Post
Listen Iíd love to go natural but I think itís too late for me now. Didnít want to hijack the thread but figured guys would give me an answer if my thinking was sound for just a reboot of my system. I had no problem with your posts as well, thatís what we are here for...discuss, learn and bounce ideas off each other.
Why not give a shot? If you can be patient for a year then do it...

from the researches that I'm finding

HCG 2500iu EOD for 6 weeks, after that Nolva 20mg for 4 weeks along with clomid 25mg for at least 8 weeks. Study says ALL of them recovered 100% after a year
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Elvia1023 View Post
It is very possible even after years of usage. For many it can take up to 2 years to recover though so it's a long time to go through life like that.



My mate has just emailed me regarding this. I am going to help him with protocol but he has to decide if he wants to get back on or stay off. I told him he should stay off as he put so much effort into coming off and it's been about 18 months. His serum test is right at the bottom of the range and his free test is below the range and this is after approx 18 months clean.



He wanted to go back on an oral only cycle but I have explained everything to him regarding messing up his natural sex hormones etc. It would be a shame as he has good cholesterol but his LDL is high (still in range) like everything else. I know with a few little changes and adding in 1 supplement he could have much lower LDL and in the process a much better HDL% ratio. The rest of his bloodwork is fine apart from the test.



I have gone over the options he can do which include trt or staying off and trying to get his levels up. I explained if he wants to cycle again just do test only as after 18 months clean even 200-300mg test would make him feel amazing. Plus he could still improve his cholesterol on that cycle/program.



This was his first blood test ever he got as I told him to. Some guys struggle to regain healthy levels afte years of usage. But as I wrote to him he has never tried any herbal test boosters or similar. They can make a big difference especially to someone with very low levels. Could be in enough to keep in a healthy range and feeling much better.



Guys can recover and some do very quickly but this is why I always say to mates now if you want to do gear it is for life.


Was he using deca? Iíve been thinking a lot about nors and recovery. I been using nors (tren and npp) for the last few years with sometimes short breaks in between...sometimes long ones.
I got off cycle in the beginning of June this year using dball, teste, and npp and got blood work done 10 weeks later and my test came back at 425 and LH and TSH in low normal range.

I think if guys are using nors and they want to recover itís going to take awhile.


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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 09:09 AM
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I am only coming off everything temporarily. Like you, I want to clear out my receptors as well as make sure I am fertile and see how close to my baseline test levels I can get to. The good thing is that I had blood work done prior to cycling, so I know exactly what my normal range is prior to AAA use.

Exactly, we can all learn from each other and bounce ideas off. Thats what makes this forum great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BALDNAZI View Post
Listen Iíd love to go natural but I think itís too late for me now. Didnít want to hijack the thread but figured guys would give me an answer if my thinking was sound for just a reboot of my system. I had no problem with your posts as well, thatís what we are here for...discuss, learn and bounce ideas off each other.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Zarati View Post
their PCT was a few months of clomid and before that mega doses of HCG, 10k ius a week for 2 months

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854084/



That's interesting , considering several sources claim that mega doses of HCG would completely desensitize the leydig cells, thus having a counter-productive effect.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2017, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nickels View Post
That's interesting , considering several sources claim that mega doses of HCG would completely desensitize the leydig cells, thus having a counter-productive effect.
I read some research showing very hcg doses didn't cause desensitization over 6 months or a year, forget which. There's probably a thread on it on excelmale, a trt site, if anyone cares to look it up.

I've haven't really been off for 10 years and often wonder if my LH could recover and testicles start producing test, sperm production too.
I've hardly done any hcg or SERMs ever but I think there's some type of activity going on in my nuts still as they change size dramatically from day to day - hardly a scientific method to assess, but still...
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:51 AM
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First off, I'm kind of an outlier as I ran gear from age 15-17 and a halfish so about 2 and a half years of being on. Had some deca in there at one point too so when i came off... well nothing worked for quite a while.I came across some medical study somewhere that suggested using clomid at intervals of 20mg eod for 2 weeks, then off for 2 weeks... repeat until you are good. I didn't follow this exactly i just took clomid 20mg every day for 2 weeks and then 2 weeks off. Keep in mind this was 6 months after the my last pin at this point. By my second on/off period so about 5 weeks in everything came back full force and perfectly fine. I do this every time i come off now. I do my normal clomid nolva. then after that month i just continue on with what i had mentioned. works absolutely amazing for me and clomid has no longer term down sides.

p.s: using clomid this way, even when you stop the clomid is supposed to leave your test levels in the high 900's even when the clomid is stopped. It trains your body to have high test. If curious to the study PM me and i'll do some digging.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2017, 08:55 PM
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^
Clomid has a real long half-life so I suspect 2 weeks is not enough time to see where you stabilize at. It is used for hypogonadism but from what I've read very few feel as good on it as on testosterone, even if test levels are equal. The "why" is debated. But I would be interested in the study you mentioned.

If on SERMs long term I think it's prudent to use as little as possible because they are a bit toxic with possible ocular problems resulting from retinal oxidative stress. So antioxidants are a good idea I think. I recall one study saying 5mg if tamox was as effective in raising test as much higher doses.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2017, 11:28 PM
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I am interested in the study if you can find it my friend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AestheticMike View Post
First off, I'm kind of an outlier as I ran gear from age 15-17 and a halfish so about 2 and a half years of being on. Had some deca in there at one point too so when i came off... well nothing worked for quite a while.I came across some medical study somewhere that suggested using clomid at intervals of 20mg eod for 2 weeks, then off for 2 weeks... repeat until you are good. I didn't follow this exactly i just took clomid 20mg every day for 2 weeks and then 2 weeks off. Keep in mind this was 6 months after the my last pin at this point. By my second on/off period so about 5 weeks in everything came back full force and perfectly fine. I do this every time i come off now. I do my normal clomid nolva. then after that month i just continue on with what i had mentioned. works absolutely amazing for me and clomid has no longer term down sides.

p.s: using clomid this way, even when you stop the clomid is supposed to leave your test levels in the high 900's even when the clomid is stopped. It trains your body to have high test. If curious to the study PM me and i'll do some digging.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:40 AM
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Sorry boys just saw this reply I'll do the study digging right now


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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2017, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by thehazzle View Post
Never took high doses. "Blast" and cruised. Took almost a year off and was miserable as F and never recovered. Now on self administered TRT 80mg every 5 days and feel better than I have in years even when blasting.

Give it a go coming off but keep in mind how shitty you may feel.
Yes I know exactly what you mean about coming off and feeling horrible. I had no energy for shit. I just played around all the time.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2017, 06:47 AM
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When i was younger i ran a continous cycle for almost 2 years , atleast a base 250 test e the whole time but also cycled deca into tren/prop throughout that period. No pct either.
After that i took a break. It took around 3.5 - 4 years until test lvls came back to normal, the first year was hard.
I was in my mid twenties so youth probably helped, i know if i tried something like this now i probably would have trouble recovering natural lvls if at all.

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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2017, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Zarati View Post
So you don't think it's possible? Im 26 years old. On for 4 years
Buddy of mine is 32, juiced from 18 years old, and did it. 26 and 4 years on is almost exactly what I'm looking at. I'm 27, I started around 20-21 years old started b/c around 22, went down to just trt around a year ago, and I should be fine.

Side note: I'm glad this thread didn't go the other way, a few of my bb buddies in real life are acting like they've lost respect for me or somehow offended by the notion I'm dropping the juice. Juicing in my early 20's was awesome, but life was much different then than it is now. Shit comes up in everyone's lives. I'm pursuing a different life than I was as a shredded 21 year old personal trainer with desperate 30 year old yoga girls on tap. I'm also involved in a sport where steroids are typically frown upon.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2017, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Zarati View Post
Just curious if anyone has recovered their natural test to good numbers after coming off of years of steroids usage
i had to take 2 years off cold turkey after a decade long run of cruising and blasting and my system recovered fully in under 6 months with no pct no hcg. im talking straight cold turkey. in fact my system recovery was better than before i started steroids. i keep telling people cycling is worse for your system than cruising and blasting. constantly turning it off and on is what kills you long term. ive worked with three physicians who work with bodybuilders and from their expert opinions and real life practice all their patients fully recovery when they come off long term AAS use to start families. Your body doesn't forget and will recover. Don't let the fear mongers scare you. But again this is just my personal experience. And when i came off cold turkey my diet was immaculate, i dont drink or do drugs and continued working out. Alot of people come off and get depressed and eat shit and barely work out and go out drinking. What you think is gonna happen?
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Last edited by musclemoose; 10-23-2017 at 01:49 AM.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2017, 01:46 AM
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That's interesting , considering several sources claim that mega doses of HCG would completely desensitize the leydig cells, thus having a counter-productive effect.
Agreed. Read those studies your talking about. HCG is really crap if you use it wrong. People take way too high dosages and too often and dont realize they are screwing themselves up worse.

Last edited by musclemoose; 10-23-2017 at 01:47 AM.
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