Why do gymnasts have HUGE biceps?

[jrs]

It's to the point where a lot of people would think its synthol or something. Both heads of their biceps are so over-developed that it looks valentino-ish on their frames.

Why is this? I notice it's mostly the guys who do the rings. Even the asian guys, no offense to any asians, have extreme bicep development.

Is it the constant pull-up tension?
Is there a certain movement they do that puts incredible stress on the bicep?
Extreme stretching?
Time under tension?

Let's figure this out. If we could apply this to biceps, let alone other muscle groups, it'll help a lot of us out.

[bigguns078]

Think about it for a moment.. What do gymnists do.. That bodybuilders don't... Extreme isolation.. Holding those poses for extended periods of time.. Day after day when they train... My bet is that reason...

[jrs]

http://www.arhiva.serbia.sr.gov.yu/g...stics2009a.jpg

http://www.thehomeworkoutplan.com/le...ymnastics1.jpg

[jrs]

And how would that best be mimicked in our training? Super slow negatives?

[JVA]

This is a very interesting topic hopefully some veterans chime in and can get somewhat technical. At first glance id have to point out a few things....

Lots of static contractions (holding position)
Lots of slow eccentric as well as concentric portions of movement requiring MORE muscular control since there is no assistance of momentum what so ever.
Lots of explosive power required and produced over and over
Lots of Stabilization required.
LOTS of power and strength required that has been built up over years and years of training.
Full ROM and lots of flexibility required. It could be true that the more flexibility the muscle group has as well as the more it is stretched, the more the fascial tissue is stretched and allowed for more growth

My best bet would be its a a combination of the above. Static contractions and stabilization can recruit the highest % of fibers pending the position. Slower movements minus any momentum at all requiring tramendous amounts of muscular control and strength. Explosiveness as well required, as it is needed to rebound bodyweight and change direction every which way as well as control bodyweight when necessary.

I would have to say that these gymnasts place MUCH more stress and demand on their upper body than any of us could possibly do in the gym by doing what they do. Makes you think.....how would our upper bodies look as bodybuilders, would we decide to train like a gymnast!

[JVA]

Now some past experience. Thinking back i was taking a kettle bell seminar at an MMA style gym. The majority of the equipment they had was all functional type stuff. Lots of creative things. At lunch and at the end i just HAD to try alot of it out.

First dips. Im very good at dips and was challanged to do them on the rings. Lets just say on a good day i can probably nail 75 dips....on the rings....maybe 20. I was challanged to multiple sets. Suffice to say....its one of the worst soreness' iv felt in my chest for the next few days of my life.

Pullups. They had a piece of PVC pipe around the pullup bar, so it would actually ROLL. You had to hold on tight to keep it from moving all while doing your pullups. I think i did maybe 3-4 reps, god they were hard. I kept trying to beat that, so i dont know how many sets i actually did. Again...one of the most insane soreness' the next few days in the back i can remember.

Maybe there really is something to alot of stabilization being required. Another reason why Phil and alot of others advocate bodyweight movements (all require good stabilization).

Does anyone have any information or research on muscle stabilization and fiber use/recruitment?

[Fa Seeshus]

the biceps get pulverized during the parallel bars (landing). this constant pounding has gotta stretch out the fascia. also the bis work alot more from dead hang movements, as they also funct as shoulder stabilizers (cross the shoulder joint). try dead hang pullups using the rings and you will kill the bis. gymnasts also regularly do rope climbs with no legs... this is a normal conditioning thing. it you do it with the feet out in front, it hits the arms even more


that stuff is hard to do after a bit of bbing. i trained in it off and on to help in sports, and the upper body needs alot of shoulder flexibility to get proper set alignment. part of my prob with shoulder flex was tight biceps. once i worked up to better bicep flex, they did grow. those dudes all have big bis because they have to be so long, or they would tear them.

"First dips. Im very good at dips and was challanged to do them on the rings. Lets just say on a good day i can probably nail 75 dips....on the rings....maybe 20. I was challanged to multiple sets. Suffice to say....its one of the worst soreness' iv felt in my chest for the next few days of my life."

did you seem to feel soreness almost under the pec (pec minor)? i always get that from the rings... even when just doing leg raises. i've never been able to duplicate that in the gym

[betito]

Originally Posted by jrs

http://www.arhiva.serbia.sr.gov.yu/g...stics2009a.jpg

http://www.thehomeworkoutplan.com/le...ymnastics1.jpg

I bet these guys never did a bicep curl in their lives... What did they do? something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bafpd...eature=related

This one is realy informayive about how they train
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXQxs-epsus&NR=1

[Sesshomaru]

Originally Posted by Fa Seeshus

the biceps get pulverized during the parallel bars (landing). this constant pounding has gotta stretch out the fascia.

It doesnt. It just toughens up the skin and hurts like a bitch in the beginning.

also the bis work alot more from dead hang movements, as they also funct as shoulder stabilizers (cross the shoulder joint). try dead hang pullups using the rings and you will kill the bis. gymnasts also regularly do rope climbs with no legs... this is a normal conditioning thing. it you do it with the feet out in front, it hits the arms even more

My team never did rope climbs, we just did a lot of bar, ring, and floor work.

that stuff is hard to do after a bit of bbing. i trained in it off and on to help in sports, and the upper body needs alot of shoulder flexibility to get proper set alignment. part of my prob with shoulder flex was tight biceps. once i worked up to better bicep flex, they did grow. those dudes all have big bis because they have to be so long, or they would tear them.

True. The other thing is that gymnasts have much smaller legs. My legs have grown considerably after leaving the sport, and while I can still do some stuff, its much harder because my legs weigh so much more.

"First dips. Im very good at dips and was challanged to do them on the rings. Lets just say on a good day i can probably nail 75 dips....on the rings....maybe 20. I was challanged to multiple sets. Suffice to say....its one of the worst soreness' iv felt in my chest for the next few days of my life."

did you seem to feel soreness almost under the pec (pec minor)? i always get that from the rings... even when just doing leg raises. i've never been able to duplicate that in the gym

The thing about a gymnast's upper body is that we're always using our arms. If we're doing core work, its not a situp, its a plank off the rings or bars. Everytime we have to get in position to do something that works the back, core, etc. we have to use the arms to get there.

So its mainly an issue about volume. Rather than have an arm day and back day like some you, its full body every day for a gymnast where the arms receive a lot of volume. Overtime, your body adapts and buils muscle to what you use the most.

[db006]

Originally Posted by TooPowerful4u

This is a very interesting topic hopefully some veterans chime in and can get somewhat technical. At first glance id have to point out a few things....

Lots of static contractions (holding position)
Lots of slow eccentric as well as concentric portions of movement requiring MORE muscular control since there is no assistance of momentum what so ever.
Lots of explosive power required and produced over and over
Lots of Stabilization required.
LOTS of power and strength required that has been built up over years and years of training.
Full ROM and lots of flexibility required. It could be true that the more flexibility the muscle group has as well as the more it is stretched, the more the fascial tissue is stretched and allowed for more growth

My best bet would be its a a combination of the above. Static contractions and stabilization can recruit the highest % of fibers pending the position. Slower movements minus any momentum at all requiring tramendous amounts of muscular control and strength. Explosiveness as well required, as it is needed to rebound bodyweight and change direction every which way as well as control bodyweight when necessary.

I would have to say that these gymnasts place MUCH more stress and demand on their upper body than any of us could possibly do in the gym by doing what they do. Makes you think.....how would our upper bodies look as bodybuilders, would we decide to train like a gymnast!

DC training revolves around these ideas

[brineal]

i dont know if i would call their biceps "huge" but the musculature they display is incredible, im sure very little of their training involves actual lifting, but using your own bodyweight in a constantly controlled manner is definitely the cause of their physique. what those guys and girls do is just amazing...

[loganb_football]

I've read these replies and talked to many gymnasts and a lot of them seem to think that they get their biceps from pull-ups and working on the rings with static exercises.

[vadim_b1]

Problem with gymnasts and their training is that their joints are completely shot by the early 20's.

Theres a price to pay for everything in the world.

[loganb_football]

Originally Posted by vadim_b1

Problem with gymnasts and their training is that their joints are completely shot by the early 20's.

Theres a price to pay for everything in the world.

Yeah I was watching the american gymnast who specializes in the rings, and between sessions he had bags of ice on both shoulders...

[brineal]

did you guys see the fall that japanese gymnast had off the rings, that looked like it felt awesome!

[speedbacker]

An interesting read that goes into a lot of this stuff:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=512003

[Alin]

good topic. ive alwyas admired the upper physique of these gymnast athletes.

[vadim_b1]

Originally Posted by steele

look at olympic rowing team. they row and row so you would THINK they would have huge backs and arms BUT in stead they are pretty small. and all their pulls are on the positive portion of the move with no negative resistance. while gymnasts who do mainly static holds and negatives have dense think muscular upper bodies.
i think that is living proof that slow negatives and time under tension is what builds muscles. NOT rep after rep after rep with no concentrating on the negative portion of the lift. slow and steady wins the race. no momentum.
-STEELE

Id think thats more due to them burning shitloads of calories

Look at the way RC trained, theres crazy momentum in most of the stuff he does.

[JohnnyPro]

Chad Waterbury has some interesting theories about this. Check out some of his articles.

[Sesshomaru]

Originally Posted by vadim_b1

Id think thats more due to them burning shitloads of calories

Exactly. Also they dont want to be too heavy because then thats more weight you have to drag across water.

You have to realize that diet will affect what your body will look like first and foremost rather than your training.