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Edema

bigoso

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Jan 23, 2006
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Hey guys....some may recognize my screen name from other boards...I mostly just lurk here. Decided to post this...not really as a question...just kind of sharing what's going on. So here's a snapshot....so now 2 preps in a row at about 10 weeks into dieting and being "on" I get really bad pitting edema to my lower extremities...ankle, calves, hams, glutes. I work in healthcare so I am well aware of what this suggests...last prep I freaked out and ran about every test imaginable thinking CHF, renal failure, liver failure etc...everything was fine. Matter of fact when I had the echo of my heart done it was a new tech working and the lady working with her commented that "this is a beautiful specimen of a heart"...anyway...fast forward to show date...couple weeks out figured it was estrogen related, upped AIs, water pills before the show and looked alright

I assumed my AI was fake....but didn't have any bloodwork done at the time. Fast forward to now...haven't competed in almost 2 years...been "off" about as long....10 weeks in, same thing. Taking 12.5 Aromasin EOD...figured that was enough as I've always heard it was strong...especially as I'm only on 750 TE...nothing else...decide this time to get bloodwork. Well...normal estradiol for a male is 0-53...mine was 78. Normal estrone is 12-72...mine was 152! Serum T was 3,742:D No wonder I am killing myself with diet and cardio and the weight is not coming off....besides the horrible edema. Bumped Aromasin to 50mg daily and I hope it brings it down.....got 6 weeks and I'm behind....any input?
 
Okay, so what's the question again?
 
guess more of a statement...but anyone experienced this? Does it seem I am taking the right course of action? Seems highly likely this insane level of estrogen in my body could be causing this.....agree/disagree?
 
I have got it bad in the lower extremities right now too brotha, legs, ankles, feet:(:eek:
 
whoever is saying 12.5mg eod, is either very lean and has low aromatase production or they dont know what they are talking about.

general dose is 25mg ED.


since you have been off and are OLDER (= more aromatase) and sounds like bodyfat is on high side (cutting), you are not using nearly enough.

note- answered this in the anti-estrogen thread as well.
 
exemestane is best taken with a high fat meal.

I thought fat blocks the absorbtion of tabs. I always take tabs on an empty stomach with grapefruit juice.
 
I thought fat blocks the absorbtion of tabs. I always take tabs on an empty stomach with grapefruit juice.

studies with tabs and powder (FOR EXEMESTANE) show up to 40% increase in plasma when taken with high fat meals.

GJ can be taken earlier, its effects on cyp3a4 are lasting (at least 8, if not 24hrs)
 
thanks Macro...honestly been taking 62.5 daily hoping to get these numbers down....gonna retest in a couple of weeks...thanks for the answer
 
thanks Macro...honestly been taking 62.5 daily hoping to get these numbers down....gonna retest in a couple of weeks...thanks for the answer

that probably more than a bit of over kill... though given that you said that you were at 22% bodyfat apprx (recently), you likely have relatively high peripheral aromatase production.....


generally though 25mg should be sufficient and your numbers should change within 2-3 days (after you switched from the low and perhaps too infrequent dose)
 
I figured that dose was kind of high but....only 12.5 is the "real" pharm grade stuff...the other is RS....not saying it's fake or anything, just a greater likelihood that it may be underdosed...can't say I see any improvement as far as the edema. I do feel something is happening though as I have a touch of gyno in one pec and it has not only shrunk a bit but it's not sensitive to the touch as it was, also getting that dry feeling in my mouth despite drinking >gal a day. We'll see, labs will tell the story
 
I figured that dose was kind of high but....only 12.5 is the "real" pharm grade stuff...the other is RS....not saying it's fake or anything, just a greater likelihood that it may be underdosed...can't say I see any improvement as far as the edema. I do feel something is happening though as I have a touch of gyno in one pec and it has not only shrunk a bit but it's not sensitive to the touch as it was, also getting that dry feeling in my mouth despite drinking >gal a day. We'll see, labs will tell the story

there are lots of reasons for edema, you may want to look at your sodium potassium ratio. ideally K+ should be about 4 times or more your Na intake.

and can say with certainty that your potency assumption,actually weighs heavier in the other direction.
 
understood....as to sodium and potassium, last time I had bloodwork done they were fine...besides I think it would just be too coincidental that this exact same thing happens at almost the exact same time in 2 preps...when I got back "on" even at the higher bodyfat my ankles were bony and vascular...guess as the estrogen slowly built up the edema started....I'll keep you posted on the results etc...thanks for all your help
 
any updates here?
 
understood....as to sodium and potassium, last time I had bloodwork done they were fine...besides I think it would just be too coincidental that this exact same thing happens at almost the exact same time in 2 preps...when I got back "on" even at the higher bodyfat my ankles were bony and vascular...guess as the estrogen slowly built up the edema started....I'll keep you posted on the results etc...thanks for all your help

blood work has little to do with cellular levels, and just because something is in range does not mean with gear or other "water carriers" you wont get edema.
 
Macro-understood...guess in this case I'm just thinking the simplest answer is probably the correct one...being that this is twice in a row the same thing has happened at about the same time...took test to rule out about every other serious situation, and this time have bloodwork to show SERIOUSLY elevated estrogen levels...which causes bloating...and I have severe bloating/edema

As for updates...no improvement as of yet, gonna get retested at the end of this week...I know the stuff is real, and as mentioned I'm taking a high dose...i just guess after 10 weeks of building up to 2x the upper normal limit it takes a while to get down? That's all I can figure....it's just killing me right now because not only does it hurt at the end of the day...it's just discouraging that I look pretty good in the morning...and by the end of the night a bloated, edemateous mess....and at this point mental is about all I have to keep me going w/ doing 2 hours of cardio a day, and 3 pro/veg days to 1 pro/fat day...just hard to keep pushing
 
OK....something is not right here....just got the results back, after weeks of running 62.5 mg of exemestane...my estro levels have actually went up!!!! At first Estrone was 173...now its 199...upper normal for a guy being 72. Estriol actually dropped like 2 points from 78 to 73 which is still way high. I have no idea what is going on? I mean, is it possible I just don't respond to aromasin...do I need to get some femara or arimidex ASAP??? Seeing as my water retention hadn't gotten any better I was figuring it would still be high but not increased....I'm on track to be in the best shape I've ever been in...but I can only imagine how much easier it would be for me to get into shape without all this f'in estrogen in me.....should I drop the test and just run tren/win till show time?
 
high end dosing with exemestane will suppress SHBG,increasing free estrone and estradiol (they have lower affinity but still affinity), it will also increase test and free test, in turn this CAN increase estrone and estradiol.

you are likely a high testicular producer of aromatase, which is why estrone levels are so elevated. Guessing that with T alone you are not all that suppressed (did you happen to get lh and fsh).

what are your other results? eg did your test levels go up again?

and yes, you may be one of those people that needs letrozole or anastrozole. you may also want to have doctor check you for variocele, or other testicular anomoly (though only if your test levels have not gone up significantly).


and here is probably the question that should have been asked right off. are you taking finasteride, dutasteride or other 5alpha reductase inhibitor (saw palmetto, etc..)?
 
one must also consider the contest prep and diet, which may have effects on you that are not typical (since you mention this has happened during both your contest preps).

are you taking anything else?
supps, meds, etc...

cardio?
 

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