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  #561 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 12:52 PM
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Steve Namat is a great guy I talk to him once in a while on the phone, his wife Linda is cool as hell too! He is burnt out from Pro bodybuilding after seeing it's "Dark Side" according to him. The guy knows what he has to do to get there but is not convinced it's worth it. Great guy, good head on his shoulders! Awesome wife that sticks my her man. I hate to say GH15 is right about American women, but how many beautiful American women would stick with their man in such hard times working 2-3 jobs just to pay rent?
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  #562 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
So with these pros is it basically a no fat diet since you're pretty much on slin all day?
with a shitload of growth it not going to be as big of a deal as it would be without a shitload of growth. a big bodybuilder i know of in tennessee says he eats a ton of carbs and protein and keep fat pretty low.
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  #563 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott21 View Post
Steve Namat is a great guy I talk to him once in a while on the phone, his wife Linda is cool as hell too! He is burnt out from Pro bodybuilding after seeing it's "Dark Side" according to him. The guy knows what he has to do to get there but is not convinced it's worth it. Great guy, good head on his shoulders! Awesome wife that sticks my her man. I hate to say GH15 is right about American women, but how many beautiful American women would stick with their man in such hard times working 2-3 jobs just to pay rent?
too bad he wasn't a bodybuilder back in zanes era, he would have been damn good, the guy has a nice physique with GREAT LINES. guys like him, and troy alves, and some other really nice shaped guys really ought to do better, but is all about big and freaky now a days, and the shit that has to be done to be the biggest freakiest guy is just SAD and super expensive
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  #564 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
So with these pros is it basically a no fat diet since you're pretty much on slin all day?
Z, this thread has spun so far out of control it is crazy. My fear is some young guy will read through it and lose sight of what bodybuilding really is. Not that anyone cares but I'm out on this one.

Young guys...their are no secrets and no amount of gear will make up for lackluster effort at the gym, table, and of course rest. Bodybuilding is the perfect harmony of all of its pieces and if you over do one thing or under do another you get knowhere.

B-Boy, I know you agree with the above but the thread has kind of lost its way in my opinion so I wanted to make mention of it. No disrespect meant.
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  #565 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
Who the fuck needs 100ius of slin a day? Or rather--how the fuck are you dosing 100ius of slin a day? I mean in general after any dose of slin, you're working on not dying for anywhere from 2-4 hours post shot (am I correct in that?) so every 2-4 hours you're doing ~20ius of slin? Is it because they have become so insulin resistant that anything less is not doing shit?
As far as I'm concerned no one needs to use slin ever!

I'll add this, todays BB has nothing to do with health. When I got in it years ago you could still look good in clothes and walk around not breathing heavy. I don't blame anyone for getting into BB today as I have always thought to each his own, but make no mistake about it, no one on stage at the top level today is healthy.

There are plenty of guys doing 20 iu's of slin twice a day and a some do 20x3. Some nutballs are doing more, but I have said many times that slin is what is ruining todays BBing. Anyone who uses it will eventually grow a huge gut it's just a matter of time. There are a lot of guys who claim they don't do this or that, but it's pretty hard to deny when they look freakin pregnant on stage.

Last edited by Magnum; 06-07-2011 at 01:17 PM.
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  #566 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by b-boy View Post
with a shitload of growth it not going to be as big of a deal as it would be without a shitload of growth. a big bodybuilder i know of in tennessee says he eats a ton of carbs and protein and keep fat pretty low.
Do I happen to know this guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Hanshaw View Post
Z, this thread has spun so far out of control it is crazy. My fear is some young guy will read through it and lose sight of what bodybuilding really is. Not that anyone cares but I'm out on this one.

Young guys...their are no secrets and no amount of gear will make up for lackluster effort at the gym, table, and of course rest. Bodybuilding is the perfect harmony of all of its pieces and if you over do one thing or under do another you get knowhere.

B-Boy, I know you agree with the above but the thread has kind of lost its way in my opinion so I wanted to make mention of it. No disrespect meant.
Agreed, the funny thing is, in this thread slin has hardly been mentioned until the last couple days so that's the only reason I ask.

Let's get this bad boy back on track! Also Dusty it's great to see you posting. I've been following you for awhile now and having someone like to to bounce ideas off of is a great help in this industry.
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Originally Posted by Dusty Hanshaw View Post
Young guys...their are no secrets and no amount of gear will make up for lackluster effort at the gym, table, and of course rest. Bodybuilding is the perfect harmony of all of its pieces and if you over do one thing or under do another you get knowhere.
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  #567 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 01:47 PM
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like i have said numerous times in this thread..... I HATE SLIN! to each his own though.


and magnum i agree, nothing healthy about this sport in the upper levels of the game (national and professional). me and my wife had a talk about this very subject the other day. but it does not mean you can throw caution to the wind, your health is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY!
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  #568 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by b-boy View Post
like i have said numerous times in this thread..... I HATE SLIN! to each his own though.
I love two or three iu's before a big meal. Just feel better. I like being just a bit slightly hypo. Clear headed.

but the excessive amounts being used otherwise is just asking for trouble down the road.
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  #569 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 02:42 PM
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how the hell is this thread not a sticky by now?
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  #570 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 04:57 PM
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I just started page 21 but I have to stop and say -

I perform DRAMATICALLY better when I eat clean. I've literally taken days to eat an equal macronutrient total of subway, deli meat, taco bell, etc (yes, I got the macros!) and made sure I got the same carbs/fat/protein I usually get and my lifts SUFFERED. My short- and long-term recovery SUFFERED. Lethargy. Disinterest. Weakness. Joint pain.

There are many factors to consider in quality of food, including quality of fat (think grass-fed beef!!), amino profiles, GI/II, and MANY others.

Nobody claims a vegetarian diet is just as good as a meat diet, even if the macros are IDENTICAL! Why? Because there is far more to consider than simply total protein. I can get tons of protein in quinoa and greek yogurt, but you know what, it isn't the same thing. It is always best to view any situation in the extreme... this is the extreme, but it applies elsewhere. How bad do you want that extra ounce of muscle? If you are willing to give it up, go ahead and eat whatever the hell you want. I'll be eating clean.

THIS IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS MACROS AND VITAMINS! I used to believe it was but now I know better.
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  #571 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hemipower View Post
VERY interesting reading...I read through another post that advocated super high gh dosing for a week...and then maintain doses at 2-3iu a day...

my no bull gh idea. based as ive said on puberty

Something like 15-20iu a day for 7-10 days with "amazing" recomp results...then 2-3iu a day from then on. so many different theories...

I fear the high bp from this and changes in heart size...my main goals are recomp/lean mass, youth therapy, recovery, and feeling good.
Did a year of gh working up from 2iu a day to 10iu (eod) and this was TOO much...back down to 2-3iu daily and recently my hand numbness is OUT OF CONTROL. Wakes me up several times at night and hands hurt badly. So, thought if it is somehow doing this at only 2iu daily (14iu a week) I would lower to 3iu EOD (9-12iu weekly). Seemed to be the same and my body no longer is showing results to GH it seems. Not getting leaner anymore. (diet is not as good as it was last year to be honest either) I tried 2iu of gh and ipamorelin at night. Several different things...same result.

Thinking, I have no aspirations of competing any more (those days are over) but I want to look and feel my best. I had initially thought, going to run about 300mg test a week and 2-3iu of gh daily forever and just maintain my size/strength and gain some joint integrity and be lean and muscular (currently about 9-10% bfat at 229 lbs and 5'10" in my early 30s).
But why am I all of a sudden getting the GH sides so bad that I have to come off? In your opinion should I take x amount of time off (a week, 2?) then start back at 2iu a day and see? Or would 5iu EOD be better for lean mass without the hand pain? Currently on test cyp 100mg, test enanth 300mg, primo 200mg and masteron 200-300mg weekly.

Ideally, I would want to do cruise most of the year 300mg test, 500iu hcg weekly, 2iu daily (morning). In the winter run 3 months of 300 deca, 300eq, 500 test with 5iu gh daily. Cruise for a couple months. Then 4 months of summer do 400 test, 300 primo, 300 masteron with 4-5iu gh daily. But with sides like this to the gh doesn't seem likely that I will be able to do so...? Anyone else experience this?
im suprised you didnt see my log of this dude. i did this for 7 days and took more gh than anyone has as far as I know. i know for damn sure it wasnt healthy and most likely wont be doing that again. but when the 7 days is over you dont take gh @ 2-3 iu as you stated. you use several times a day for 3 weeks then repeat the blast if you like. my log is in my sig if you want to check it out. 4lbs of lean mass for 7 days of gh is pretty cool to me.
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  #572 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by buselmo View Post
how the hell is this thread not a sticky by now?
Was wondering the same thing.
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  #573 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior504th View Post
I just started page 21 but I have to stop and say -

I perform DRAMATICALLY better when I eat clean. I've literally taken days to eat an equal macronutrient total of subway, deli meat, taco bell, etc (yes, I got the macros!) and made sure I got the same carbs/fat/protein I usually get and my lifts SUFFERED. My short- and long-term recovery SUFFERED. Lethargy. Disinterest. Weakness. Joint pain.

There are many factors to consider in quality of food, including quality of fat (think grass-fed beef!!), amino profiles, GI/II, and MANY others.

Nobody claims a vegetarian diet is just as good as a meat diet, even if the macros are IDENTICAL! Why? Because there is far more to consider than simply total protein. I can get tons of protein in quinoa and greek yogurt, but you know what, it isn't the same thing. It is always best to view any situation in the extreme... this is the extreme, but it applies elsewhere. How bad do you want that extra ounce of muscle? If you are willing to give it up, go ahead and eat whatever the hell you want. I'll be eating clean.

THIS IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS MACROS AND VITAMINS! I used to believe it was but now I know better.
great point in bold!! I am the exact same way, my performance suffers... so eat for performance if you are trying to constantly beat your log book, you got to have prime fuel at all fucking times.
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  #574 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2011, 10:22 PM
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completely, i used to follow a "set - diet" and wonder why i wasnt making, gains lets think about this in reality...each day your body will have different levels of needs i think you cannot compare a back day with an arm day for example, all the time your body is sending out messages that we ignore cos we read some cookie cutter shit of the net. I mean ffs i used to eat rice n chicken when i wasnt hungry at all, then 2 hrs later eat it again, and again and I wonder why i got fat? im eating according to a pre-planned diet on paper how the fuck is that addressing my bodys needs? Im hungry for every damn meal right now and i never find myself bloated or feeling sick or feeling flat and weak...why cos i eat on the way my body dictates, i dont wanna sound like a broken record but the MD diet has completely changed my outlook on fats role on a diet and on strength/muscle gains.
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  #575 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2011, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Omega-Red View Post
completely, i used to follow a "set - diet" and wonder why i wasnt making, gains lets think about this in reality...each day your body will have different levels of needs i think you cannot compare a back day with an arm day for example, all the time your body is sending out messages that we ignore cos we read some cookie cutter shit of the net. I mean ffs i used to eat rice n chicken when i wasnt hungry at all, then 2 hrs later eat it again, and again and I wonder why i got fat? im eating according to a pre-planned diet on paper how the fuck is that addressing my bodys needs? Im hungry for every damn meal right now and i never find myself bloated or feeling sick or feeling flat and weak...why cos i eat on the way my body dictates, i dont wanna sound like a broken record but the MD diet has completely changed my outlook on fats role on a diet and on strength/muscle gains.
But on the same note, calories must be counted. We cannot rely on these signals, but common sense is enough. Unless you're on GH or a lot of gear (or both?), you should not be cramming yourself until you want to vomit. Correct. But MANY, if not most, people fail because they eat until they're full and declare that amount of food to be "a TON of food, probably 4000 calories!!" and in reality is more like 2900. Appetites vary and do not always complement the person's maintenance calories.
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  #576 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2011, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by b-boy View Post
if your prone to being a fat boy then u should keep estrogen under control as much as humanly possible, still want to use test then use prop as aromatization (how in the fuck do you spell what i want to say?) is less with faster ester's and more managable
Dumb question, won't anti e's do the same?
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  #577 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2011, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dusty Hanshaw View Post
Z, this thread has spun so far out of control it is crazy. My fear is some young guy will read through it and lose sight of what bodybuilding really is. Not that anyone cares but I'm out on this one.

Young guys...their are no secrets and no amount of gear will make up for lackluster effort at the gym, table, and of course rest. Bodybuilding is the perfect harmony of all of its pieces and if you over do one thing or under do another you get knowhere.


B-Boy, I know you agree with the above but the thread has kind of lost its way in my opinion so I wanted to make mention of it. No disrespect meant.
While I agree with you have stated wholeheartedly. This thread really isn't losing sight of what bodybuilding really is. This is what bodybuilding really is as far as what is used and done at the upper echelon of National and IFBB ranks. This isn't to say that ALL guys choose this route but it is the common occurrence among athletes. At Pro Muscle, bullshit doesn't fly, IMO there isn't ever a reason for us athletes to be in denial about the hormone abuse that occurs to reach a certain level in this sport. If some young kid stumbles upon Pro Muscle and reads this thread and decides he is going to do what has been stated then he suffers the consequences and it's THEIR own fault. I know that no one wants to endorse such methods for people to use and they really aren't. Everyone is responsible for their own health and life choices. Lord knows, I've made some pretty stupid ones and wouldn't want anyone else to make those same choices. It's been stated by B-boy and others the dislike for slin and it really shouldn't be used for the most part. This board houses top athletes and the real deal information. That's the disclaimer for any wayward young bodybuilder that arrives here. I certainly don't endorse young bodybuilders doing anything to risk their health but everyone has the right to make their own choice about what they put into their body. Everything in life involves a bit of sacrifice, some more than others.

p.s. Thank you Dusty for the contributions you've made here and IntenseMuscle. I'm pulling for you to get your pro card.

Last edited by Hellbilly; 06-08-2011 at 01:35 AM.
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  #578 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2011, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jesse7159 View Post
im suprised you didnt see my log of this dude. i did this for 7 days and took more gh than anyone has as far as I know. i know for damn sure it wasnt healthy and most likely wont be doing that again. but when the 7 days is over you dont take gh @ 2-3 iu as you stated. you use several times a day for 3 weeks then repeat the blast if you like. my log is in my sig if you want to check it out. 4lbs of lean mass for 7 days of gh is pretty cool to me.
Hey Jesse thanks for the reply. Yes I did read through much of your log and it was informative as well...my main point for posting was what was below that discussion concerning gh sides being so bad after being on a YEAR and on low dose...

I have no aspirations of competing again but I want to look and feel my best. I had initially thought to run about 300mg test a week and 2-3iu of gh daily forever and just maintain my size/strength and gain some joint integrity and be lean and muscular (currently about 9-10% bfat at 229 lbs and 5'10" in my early 30s).
But all of a sudden getting the GH sides so bad that I have to come off (hands HURT and wake me up and are numb most of the day at 2-3iu in the morn). Should I take x amount of time off (a week, 2?) then start back at 2iu a day and see? Or would 5iu EOD be better for lean mass without the hand pain? Currently on test cyp 100mg, test enanth 300mg, primo 200mg and masteron 200-300mg weekly.

Ideally, I would want to do cruise most of the year 300mg test, 500iu hcg weekly, 2iu daily (morning) or Ipamorelin 200mcg at night. In the winter run 3 months of 300 deca, 300eq, 500 test with 5-6iu gh daily. Cruise for a couple months. Then 4 months of summer do 400 test, 300 primo, 300 masteron with 4-5iu gh daily. But with sides like this to the gh doesn't seem likely that I will be able to do so...? Anyone else experience this?
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:59 AM
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WARRIOR - yes completely agree and you have to realise to be careful on your hunger signals, i mean shit i can eat pastrys and chocolate all day long...i dont actually weigh my food at all , but when im eating im making sure to get my protein alongside fats with fibrous carbs like salad etc... i also WORK to keep myself hungry with cardio and training. If i do overeat slightly in a meal then my next meal i will eat less, my main point is the body is not a textbook and as such we need to learn we overcomplicate a lot which if you break it down is just using your common sense when approaching building the body. I would say though if your starting out its better to use a baseline diet as a guide no doubt.
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by milkhouse View Post
Dumb question, won't anti e's do the same?
Yes but you have other problems there, such as too low estrogen, adverse impact on bloods (Im not extremely familiar with complete sides from ai's since I avoid them due to joint pain) and other things. In the end it is best, imo, to take as few drugs as possible and that'd be one route. I know that's a generic answer. Hopefully someone else will expand.

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