I agree with INCBB and Alpha 100%. Without test, you will feel good for 5-7 weeks, then it will hit you. Gh and peptides may help but it needs to be there. I personally can't even run low T high tren cycles, I felt great for about two weeks, then libido was gone.
I have gone to lower doses of test, and it's working well but test IMO is a staple that will add some great size, at least in the beginning, then you can lower it and bump up the others to lower sides and hopefully continue to gain. I'm another who is loving TP now, I kinda always have, but I like to run like 250 TE a week with tp eod, add some npp or tren, dbol, peptides and I'm good to go.
Then I ran TRT test, var, proviron for a good while and looked full, had a constant pump and great libido. But anavar is the worst for libido without test. Dbol especially without test will make you feel great for a few weeks, that super fast aromitization rate for some reason can make you feel mentally great for a while but without T it will come to an end. Just like dosing T high from day one will likely bring sides and lethargy.
I love T, can't live without it. I was always the guy to run about 1g to maybe 1500mg of T only cycles, even ran a gram for a year straight with labs just to see what was going on, actually labs were good until I added deca for a good amount of time at the end, bp went up along with blood counts and that took a while to straighten out. Now I keep my test lower, 250-750, and add in other compounds based on what I'm planning to do and it works great.
JJB I know how you are feeling, and a lot of guys in foreign countries, lots of Egypt, and some other areas act like test is thevworstvdrug on the planet and ruins a physique but I'm not sure if they are running shorter cycles. Many guys don't like the aromatase because it makes them look wet or sloppy but just really drop the dose and you should get that same hard look.
I always run hcg in small doses as well do technically that should prevent the need for test, especially HMG and some igf or Gh/Gh peptides but I personally just can't go without it, I don't feel right at all.
JJB I really think it was the high doses of test that were making you feel that way, I noticed that after running test at 1g or slightly over for long periods of time, with or w/o other compounds eventually made me feel lethargic but it was mostly my hematocrit/hemoglobin and add 750 or more of deca with it and some dbol and I couldn't donate blood fast enough but honestly loved how I looked. Now I tend to keep T a little lower, use npp, and var even with dbol.
I also found that while running TRT occasional 4-6 weeks of 50-75mg dbol with 150 TE felt great and I didn't seem to hold much water at all, but I must admit I don't hold much water at any dose, and it's more difficult for me to gain fat then it is for me to gain muscle it seems. I started out with a very low bf, skinny as hell, and very very active in sports so I was burning cals like crazy. Playing hockey at a paid(not NHL yes I'm a loser) level and trying to keep some weight on was impossible with all the practice, then off ice practice, sprints, plyo. I had as much food as I could eat and would set alarms to wake up and drink premade shakes and still it wasn't enough, then I found test and it changed the game. Easily held 10-30lbs more then I previously could, appetite was stronger, and I was stronger, faster and felt like the man, but it still never got me a NHL contract so by the time I hit 25, I gave up on attempts at playing for a living, which I was making money on farm teams and pro leagues but you would be surprised at how little the money was.
Sorry to add so much and not trying to get off topic but I guess whatvim getting at is still keep a minimum of T, and for most I still think its the best thing to start on and really you can run it for your first couple of years with maybe an oral and still progress well. But some of the more experienced guys who have attained a certain body weight, and knowledge of how to eat for their body, etc, may not really need much and can take advantage of other compounds as the bulk of your cycle, but I wouldn't give up on test all together, after all it is what makes us men. And a quick example, my buddy ran a deca only cycle one time, had great results, but after week 7 he finally lost libido and had deca dick, now add in even 150mg T and he can run that same cycle without issues.
But experiment and see what works for you, I was amazed at how full and dry I looked on low t, var and lost some size but guys were telling me I looked bigger, maybe just because of the quality of muscle or not holding that little bit of water you could see a more defined look to the muscle. My other buddy ran tren ace only for months at a time with no libido issues but I can't do it, on paper you should be able to, but that guy is a walking hard on, I think he has issues.
.gif "IP Gear")
