Heavy weight for hypertrophy : Myth ?

[supertesty]

Hey guys,

During my years of training, I tried lot of training methods : Squeeze and stretch, heavy weight, High volume, rest period calcul etc...

Since some weeks, I do heavy weight with proper form, high intensity, low volume, high frequency.

I saw vids from oxygen gym or others vids and It's amazing how some pros train with low intensity with no heavy weights. So, whats the point ? genetic ? good drug that allow us to train like that ? fake vids ?

I mean when you sea Nathan Daesha who mutate every month while he train so cool... Look a branch warren, heavy weight, bad form, lot of injuries, no mutation.

Look at bradley castleberry who train fuckin hard and lift so unbelievable weights and he's not as big as he would be with all these weights ?

Dallas lift heavy but not as heavy as he can does. Compton lift heavy just on few exersises and on machines.

I wonder if heavy weight is the key especially on free weight.

Whats your opinion about it ?

 

[Landmonster]

All other factors held constant, more weight weight is always better.

 

[muscle_n_blood]

I grow on heavy weight. Period. I can pump and burn all I want and look good, but for growth, I have to put weight on the bar.

 

[buck]

In my decades of training I have not known any one who has gotten continuously bigger by lifting the same weight. I have known guys that benched 300lbs their first day in the gym and others that have struggled for years that never hit that number. If a guy goes from 300 to 400 lbs. And another goes from 75 to benching 250, I say the second guy is the one who has gotten stronger. Heavy is all relative.

 

[Pinkton]

Heavy is relative. I squat 405 max which is heavy for me and have huge legs. Lotta ppl squat 600-700 in my gym and have tiny legs next to mine.

 

[anarchocapitalist]

Been using steroids since 1995 and have tried various routines.

Two of the most productive routines I've used:

1 - Full body routine MWF I gained a serious amount of weight back after a layoff in like 6 weeks.

2 - MaxOT which is one bodypart per day brief and heavy. So I do back-chest-legs-arms-delt and then rest weekends. I pick 3 exercises and do two or three heavy ass sets of 4 to 6 very slow controlled reps with slight break in form to lift heavy.

 

[epoxy]

Heavy is relative. I squat 405 max which is heavy for me and have huge legs. Lotta ppl squat 600-700 in my gym and have tiny legs next to mine.

I think legs are an area where heavy does not always equate to biggest size. My back, chest and shoulders all grew best using very heavy weight but it wasn't until I dropped the weight on legs and started going for a higher volume approach that they really started to grow. Some people say this has to do with "fast twitch vs slow twitch fibers" and there being more of one than the other in certain areas of the body, whatever it is, I see the powerlifter guys at the gym putting up big numbers (impressive in their own right) but most of their legs are far from impressive in terms of muscularity

 

[thewizkid]

o2 bodybuilders do train heavy,

also not just about moving weight from point a to b

 

[bonacris]

Hey guys,

During my years of training, I tried lot of training methods : Squeeze and stretch, heavy weight, High volume, rest period calcul etc...

Since some weeks, I do heavy weight with proper form, high intensity, low volume, high frequency.

I saw vids from oxygen gym or others vids and It's amazing how some pros train with low intensity with no heavy weights. So, whats the point ? genetic ? good drug that allow us to train like that ? fake vids ?

I mean when you sea Nathan Daesha who mutate every month while he train so cool... Look a branch warren, heavy weight, bad form, lot of injuries, no mutation.

Look at bradley castleberry who train fuckin hard and lift so unbelievable weights and he's not as big as he would be with all these weights ?

Dallas lift heavy but not as heavy as he can does. Compton lift heavy just on few exersises and on machines.

I wonder if heavy weight is the key especially on free weight.

Whats your opinion about it ?

There are a few years in the difference. Branch isn't going to be able to mutate at 41.

Also don't just look at size. Look at the level of conditioning that branch was able to bring. That level of graininess is from years of heavy weights ala Coleman and dorian.

And branch has said his injuries are not training related. He slipped and torn a quad tendon or something along those lines.

Dallas's 800lb deadlift is pretty fucking heavy.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

You are guaging what they do off a single video of one set they posted from a workout???

 

[LATS]

Well.. First I'll say intensity of the set is of greatest importance.. Does load matter? Yes.. It's a form of creating more intensity.. But load can encompass many variables... More and more studies are showing that the intensity of the set is of utmost importance.. Going to failure at 14 reps brings about the same protein synthesis as going to failure at 6 reps.. Plus 14 reps ( if the cadence is the same as the 6 reps set) brings about more time under tension.

. Higher loaded also mean more damage to the cartilage of the joints effected. . No getting around that.. There are now studies that show cartilage rejuvenation with sets in the 15 to 20 range.. So " heavy" is relative... It can encompass many load perimeters.. But the key, regardless of what the rep range, should always be progressive loads.. Being able to add more weight to the specific rep range ( while keeping cadence the same as a accurate gauge)..

 

[Drago]

Lats what do you think of this style of training when you train with set of 8x3 0r 10x3 or 6x6 ?

 

[LATS]

Depends on rest intervals.. If your doing say cluster sets or muscle rounds where the goal is 6 sets of 4 but your only taking 10 seconds of rest between sets its great.. Mainly because your basing the load on roughly a 15 rep max in regards to weight.. All of the variable you listed can work.. But when doing something like 5 sets of 5 and taking 3 minute rests is a great system but will take effect on your joints after a while.. The load is great.. That's where periodization would have to come in after a allocated amount of time to lighten the loads and give cns and joints a break..

 

[ALLEX]

Food, drugs and rest are way more important that one extra forced rep or that magic angle.

When everything is in place, your muscles just need the stimulus.

 

[LATS]

Food, drugs and rest are way more important that one extra forced rep or that magic angle.

When everything is in place, your muscles just need the stimulus.

I agree to an extent.. Years ago I wrote on this board a post " have we forgot the art of training" or something to that extent.. There is numerous protocols these days .. Many are founded on science and research.. The problem is when using gear about anything will work as long as food and rest is adequate.. So that is why we see so many odd variable.. Sloppy form.. Numerous forced reps.. No controlled eccentric... 30 sets for a muscle group.. While other use strict form and low volume ECT ect.. The common denominator is anabolic and for ect.. So it's really hard to know what works anymore and what does not..

I've always said take the routine you used as a natural that worked.. Then add gear and you gave the " magic" combination.. The problem is many trainees these days get on gear right away and never try various routines that work for them.. I trained natural for a very long time and did a dorian variation and every other day routine from day one.. It worked well as a natural .. Then gear was added.. And bingo

 

[tenny]

i grew the most when i wasn't worried about growing anymore....

if you are constantly thinking (grow grow grow), you
will mind fuck yourself.....i finally said "fuck it" im as big
as im gonna get......and just started actually enjoying training
again.....and started growing...

 

[Tom]

I absolutely love training with ridiculously light weights and reps of 15 and higher. I look better than any time in the past when I was younger and trying to handle max weights. 62 now and feel as good as I did at 32. All the joint pain and stiffness has subsided as a bonus of light weights and high reps .

 

[MikeS]

My friend LATS, I have to disagree on this one. Fast-twitch in relation to slow-twitch are what its about, it plain science. No, I don't have the lab reports, but Ive read MANY studies, and also remember what my PT certs taught, that Fast twitch muscle were more responsive to hypertrophy; and the general rep range was 5-8reps. Pure power without regard to max size was 1-4reps. 10-15+ reps was for muscular endurance and oxygenation, affected the slow twitch fiber, which grow, but are not nearly as responsive to growth as fast twitch.

So called sloppy form is relative. If it gets you through a stick point/leverage disadvantage and enables you to use more weight through the majority of the range of motion, it can be of benefit. In the same way a spot can. If you use sloppy form and don't use the muscle you are trying to overload in cheating, that wont help you grow.

Example-barbell curl.
Do ascending sets with good form to max weight. Then use a weight that you have to cheat (or use a spot) at the beginning but can pull through the remaining 80% of the ROM. So you will overload the muscle with a weight you could have never used with strict form. The 80% of the ROM can handle the heavier weight...why restrict yourself to using weight that is only heavy in the 10-20% leverage disadvantage (the start of the movement), but the rest of the ROM can overload with more weight? The one last set with a weight that is generally, too heavy, can provide great overload!
Lucky for me my joints have been able to handle this type of training, so that has to be taken into consideration as well.
Its just my way, everyone has to figure out whats best for them!

 

[Fit2Serve]

Well.. First I'll say intensity of the set is of greatest importance.. Does load matter? Yes.. It's a form of creating more intensity.. But load can encompass many variables... More and more studies are showing that the intensity of the set is of utmost importance.. Going to failure at 14 reps brings about the same protein synthesis as going to failure at 6 reps.. Plus 14 reps ( if the cadence is the same as the 6 reps set) brings about more time under tension.

. Higher loaded also mean more damage to the cartilage of the joints effected. . No getting around that.. There are now studies that show cartilage rejuvenation with sets in the 15 to 20 range.. So " heavy" is relative... It can encompass many load perimeters.. But the key, regardless of what the rep range, should always be progressive loads.. Being able to add more weight to the specific rep range ( while keeping cadence the same as a accurate gauge)..

i grew the most when i wasn't worried about growing anymore....

if you are constantly thinking (grow grow grow), you
will mind fuck yourself.....i finally said "fuck it" im as big
as im gonna get......and just started actually enjoying training
again.....and started growing...

these 2 posts pretty much sums it up on what I would say as well. Spot on.
I didn't always feel this way but def do now (near 40 yr old)
-F2S

 

[LATS]

My friend LATS, I have to disagree on this one. Fast-twitch in relation to slow-twitch are what its about, it plain science. No, I don't have the lab reports, but Ive read MANY studies, and also remember what my PT certs taught, that Fast twitch muscle were more responsive to hypertrophy; and the general rep range was 5-8reps. Pure power without regard to max size was 1-4reps. 10-15+ reps was for muscular endurance and oxygenation, affected the slow twitch fiber, which grow, but are not nearly as responsive to growth as fast twitch.

So called sloppy form is relative. If it gets you through a stick point/leverage disadvantage and enables you to use more weight through the majority of the range of motion, it can be of benefit. In the same way a spot can. If you use sloppy form and don't use the muscle you are trying to overload in cheating, that wont help you grow.

Example-barbell curl.
Do ascending sets with good form to max weight. Then use a weight that you have to cheat (or use a spot) at the beginning but can pull through the remaining 80% of the ROM. So you will overload the muscle with a weight you could have never used with strict form. The 80% of the ROM can handle the heavier weight...why restrict yourself to using weight that is only heavy in the 10-20% leverage disadvantage (the start of the movement), but the rest of the ROM can overload with more weight? The one last set with a weight that is generally, too heavy, can provide great overload!
Lucky for me my joints have been able to handle this type of training, so that has to be taken into consideration as well.
Its just my way, everyone has to figure out whats best for them!

There is no 5 to 8 reps for mass ECT..there are too many variable.. If a person performs 7 reps with a two second negative and a explosive positive we have a whole different stimulus then if another trainee does a 4 second negative and a two second positive for the same reps.. The time under tension is different.. Reps are arbitrary.. So your time under tension for 7 reps may be another persons 12 rep time under tension.. Each person is failing at the same time ( example 35 seconds) but their rep scheme is different.. What studies are showing is if the rep cadence is the same it's not a big difference if you fail at 8 or 15.. The research is showing that they key is failure..intensity..

As for the idea of one range effecting slow twitch or fast twitch what is being found out is that if failure is hit then fast twitch is also being damaged when failure is hit regardless of 6 or 15 reps.. No this is all within reason.. Most claim a load of 50 to 60 percent .. This way you aren't doing endless repetitions,, .

Another example is what scott Stevenson, jordan peters and dave smith are doing in regards to muscle rounds training.. They pick a a weight they can do for roughly 15 reps to failure and then do 6 sets of 4 reps with 10 seconds rest between the sets.. Hitting failure by the 5th or 6th set.. They are reporting great results.. Dante has most ( especially his older trainees after 40) hitting failure by 14 to 16 reps as their first failure point in his rest pause technique..

But the point is if you hit failure at 14 reps with with a 2 second eccentric and explosive concentric and another hits failure
at 8 the protein synthesis is essentially the same ..... This is just one study done..

High Load/Low Reps Versus Low Load/High Reps For Hypertrophy | High Intensity Training by Drew Baye