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Vitamin D deficiency really just Magnesium deficiency?

Knight9

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I am part of a private group on facebook that advocates magnesium and talks about magnesium deficiency in depth. Now, their views obviously might be biased or slighted, but an interesting topic came up the other day. I am an advocate of Vitamin D3 and levels in the 60-80ng range...but I am not well-versed enough to peel this issue apart and come to a direct conclusion. According to them, Vitamin D deficiency is really magnesium deficiency and excess Vitamin D supplementation causes magnesium deficiency.

Take a look. This link has been brought up several times in the group and everyone is told to go read it and get these 4 levels tested for before commenting or going on a crusade about Vitamin D etc...

Hormone D


Here are some quotes from group members who are supposedly quite knowledgeable...and a few others from "followers" posting testimonials who have supposedly made the mistake of taking Vitamin D. I am not sure if they are just drinking the kool-aid or these advocates are onto something.

-------------------------------
*Basically, supplementing isolated D3 can be hazardous to your health. It can cause kidney potassium wasting and depletes Magnesium.
Get the recommended testing so you know the status of your body.

-------------------------------
*It increases calcium absorption, and calcium out of balance with mag (or anything else) is not conducive to a happy, healthy body.
-------------------------------
*Increase magnesium and the D will come up
-------------------------------
*I never knew this and learned the hard way. I have been taking 5,000 units of vitamin d for two years. I have horrible joint pain and stiffness. I stopped the vit d and am going to start magnesium
--------------------------------
*I ditched Hormone D and it's partner in crime - calcium about 3 -4 years ago. My D was off the charts high and I had all sorts of unregulated calcium coursing throughout my body. Felt like crap. Tight muscled all the time. Then I hooked up with Maggie, ditched the D and the Ca and all has been very good! I get D from the sun (just 10-15 minutes a day) and get my Ca from food.
--------------------------------
* I myself took D like candy for a few years. Now I am hypothyroid with high ionized calcium floating around, messed up menses. I have been here a year trying to correct the damage. I'm headed in the right direction and feel so much better.
---------------------------------
*Use natural sources....grass fed and free range animals...their butter and eggs, cod liver oil, mushrooms, sun, tanning beds with correct UVB lightbulbs
----------------------------------
*ON WHY D3 SUPPLEMENTS ARE NOT NATURAL....
Someone in the tread did ask for the list of labs and that is what I have handy. Lanolin is derived from wool-bearing animals like sheep. To get vitamin D from lanolin, supplement manufacturers first purify it and crystallize it, then put it through a chemical process and I do not agree that it is completely natural. When taking D please know that it depletes mag and drives up your calcium. I have seen a few people here post that they once could not tolerate the sun either but once they worked on restoring mag levels they where able to tolerate it.
-----------------------------------
*Lanolin is derived from wool-bearing animals like sheep. To get vitamin D from lanolin, supplement manufacturers first purify it and crystallize it, then put it through a chemical process that produces a substance called 7-dehydrocholesterol. The 7-dehydrocholesterol is then liquefied in an organic solvent and exposed to ultraviolet radiation. These chemical changes turn 7-dehydrocholesterol into a substance called vitamin D-3. Next, supplement manufacturers further purify and crystallize this vitamin and add it to their products.
------------------------------------
*This is a quote from Morley that I have saved and really breaks it down simply and really helped me understand the affects of D. "Simply put, there are two Seesaws with Hormone-D:
o Seesaw #1: the balance of Active Hormone-D (1,25 Hydroxy) which your doctor NEVER tests to Storage Hormone-D (25 Hydroxy) which is what is ALWAYS tested... They ride on a rail together...
o Seesaw #2: the balance of Calcium to Magnesium... They, too, ride of a rail together..

Now, this is the most important part:
o Magnesium & Storage Hormone-D are tied together...
o Calcium and Active Hormone-D are tied together...

So, when Storage Hormone-D is LOW, this is what it REALLY means:
1) Magnesium is likely deficient or certainly Low...
2) Active Hormone-D is HIGH -- they are on a seesaw!
3) Calcium is ALSO HIGH -- again, it's on a seesaw with Maggie...
And when Storage Hormone-D is low, it means you need Mo'' Maggie (& Mo' Cholesterol) in your diet...
---------------------------------
Worrying about Hormone-D in isolation of these OTHER critical components of your overall health is very risky business... "

---------------------------------
*it is important to know the ratios of storae and active "D" and ionized calcium to know if supplementing D is warranted. If, yes, then from food forms as listed above. Not isolated D3.
----------------------------------
*When ingested, synthetic vitamin D products (including Lanolin) mobilize calcium from the bones into the bloodstream, producing hypercalcemia, kidney failure, central nervous system depression and heart failure – all signs of parathyroid dysfunction.
When taken in by the sun your body will only take in what it needs. Cod liver oil is natural Vit A. and D and your body know what to do with it.

------------------------------------
* I too followed Mercola for years. I took his advise order the only D3 test he suggests. Years later I am now Hypothyroid, messed up menses, high ionized calcium, have messed up copper levels and was feeling like I was 80. I only learned that it was all connected after joining this group and doing the labs to confirm what was truly going on. I stopped taking D and after 1 year trying to correct things I am feeling better. I am just trying to share what I learned about my health. It is ultimately a personal decision on how anyone handles their own health.
-------------------------------------
*Think of supplementing D based on 25 hydroxy D alone like treating thyroid jst based upon TSH.. you do not have a complete clinical picture.
--------------------------------------
* If you do decide to continue with the D3, please remember it has to be balanced with Vitamin A. I suggest desiccated liver supplements for not only Vitamin A but overall health. Also I hope you've checked for copper zinc imbalances. Copper is very important for immune health.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*Testing is the key to Hormone-D

Yes, this is what ALL the controversy is about with Hormone-D… getting from one state to the next!
The molecule on the Left is Calcidiol, aka 25(OH)D or the “Storage” form of the Hormone.

The molecule on the Right is Calcitriol, aka 1,25(OH)2 D3 or the “Active” form of the Hormone.

And you can’t get from Left state to Right state without consuming Magnesium and Mg-ATP… And that’s a fact.

Well, if you do nothing else today, please take the 10-min to watch this interview with Kenny L. De Meirleir, MD, PhD, a pre-eminent physiologist, internist and ME/CFS researcher based in Brussels:
He is MOST clear in his position re Hormone-D:

“Low 25(OH)D is just a ‘witness’ that you have too much 1,25(OH)2 D3…” (this is ~4:30 in the video…)
He is critical of his professional colleagues for recommending so much “D”-pendence on this supplement…
He indicates the ratio of 1,25(OH)2 D3 (“Active”) to 25(OH)D (“Storage”) SHOULD BE 1.5, “maybe” 2 times greater, but what he is now finding are patients with FOUR TO FIVE TIMES (4-5X) more “Active” Hormone, compared to their “Storage” Hormone. It sets the stage for severe mineral and metabolic imbalance.

I have LOOOOONG suspected and theorized that this was, in fact, exactly what was happening, and now have clinical proof from one of the foremost authorities on this very dynamic. And why is this so alarming? Because HIGH levels of “Active” Hormone-D are indications of excess, unregulated Calcium in the blood. (And what makes it “unregulated?” — Too little Magnesium, as you no doubt imagined!…)

So, what to do?…
Please look BEFORE you “D”cide to supplement!
Conduct the following four blood tests to have certainty of your need for additional supplemental “D” — not because you read a glitzy article, or that your neighbor stressed the need, or worse yet, that your not-fully-informed doctor “ordered” you to do so. That they are choosing to overlook the metabolic foundation of this issue is a bit unsettling, at best…

The tests that get to the metabolic truth are as follows:
Magnesium RBC (Red Blood Cell): it’s the KEY catalyst for creating “Storage” and “Active” forms of this Hormone…
25(OH)D blood test: it’s the measure of the “Storage” form, the precursor to “Active” form of this Hormone…
1,25(OH)2 D3 blood test: it’s the measure of the “Active” form of this Hormone…
“Ionized” Serum Calcium blood test (NOT a standard serum test!): given that Calcitriol’s JOB in the body is to put MORE Calcium into the blood stream, it only makes sense to know exactly how much you have there already, right?…

So, please, look BEFORE you take a “D”ive!

And if you need a refresher on why excess, unregulated Calcium is NOT your friend, please review this article that Carolyn Dean, MD, ND and I wrote in December, 2012:
The Calcium Wars: Magnesium deficiency causes heart disease - NaturalNews.com


I’m confident that this new information will be troubling to some, a bit confusing to others, but absolutely beneficial to all who take the time to read this, and act on it… I strongly encourage you to do so!
A votre sante!
 
Last edited:
I am part of a private group on facebook that advocates magnesium and talks about magnesium deficiency in depth. Now, their views obviously might be biased or slighted, but an interesting topic came up the other day. I am an advocate of Vitamin D3 and levels in the 60-80ng range...but I am not well-versed enough to peel this issue apart and come to a direct conclusion. According to them, Vitamin D deficiency is really magnesium deficiency and excess Vitamin D supplementation causes magnesium deficiency.

Take a look. This link has been brought up several times in the group and everyone is told to go read it and get these 4 levels tested for before commenting or going on a crusade about Vitamin D etc...

Hormone D


Here are some quotes from group members who are supposedly quite knowledgeable...and a few others from "followers" posting testimonials who have supposedly made the mistake of taking Vitamin D. I am not sure if they are just drinking the kool-aid or these advocates are onto something.

-------------------------------
*Basically, supplementing isolated D3 can be hazardous to your health. It can cause kidney potassium wasting and depletes Magnesium.
Get the recommended testing so you know the status of your body.

-------------------------------
*It increases calcium absorption, and calcium out of balance with mag (or anything else) is not conducive to a happy, healthy body.
-------------------------------
*Increase magnesium and the D will come up
-------------------------------
*I never knew this and learned the hard way. I have been taking 5,000 units of vitamin d for two years. I have horrible joint pain and stiffness. I stopped the vit d and am going to start magnesium
--------------------------------
*I ditched Hormone D and it's partner in crime - calcium about 3 -4 years ago. My D was off the charts high and I had all sorts of unregulated calcium coursing throughout my body. Felt like crap. Tight muscled all the time. Then I hooked up with Maggie, ditched the D and the Ca and all has been very good! I get D from the sun (just 10-15 minutes a day) and get my Ca from food.
--------------------------------
* I myself took D like candy for a few years. Now I am hypothyroid with high ionized calcium floating around, messed up menses. I have been here a year trying to correct the damage. I'm headed in the right direction and feel so much better.
---------------------------------
*Use natural sources....grass fed and free range animals...their butter and eggs, cod liver oil, mushrooms, sun, tanning beds with correct UVB lightbulbs
----------------------------------
*ON WHY D3 SUPPLEMENTS ARE NOT NATURAL....
Someone in the tread did ask for the list of labs and that is what I have handy. Lanolin is derived from wool-bearing animals like sheep. To get vitamin D from lanolin, supplement manufacturers first purify it and crystallize it, then put it through a chemical process and I do not agree that it is completely natural. When taking D please know that it depletes mag and drives up your calcium. I have seen a few people here post that they once could not tolerate the sun either but once they worked on restoring mag levels they where able to tolerate it.
-----------------------------------
*Lanolin is derived from wool-bearing animals like sheep. To get vitamin D from lanolin, supplement manufacturers first purify it and crystallize it, then put it through a chemical process that produces a substance called 7-dehydrocholesterol. The 7-dehydrocholesterol is then liquefied in an organic solvent and exposed to ultraviolet radiation. These chemical changes turn 7-dehydrocholesterol into a substance called vitamin D-3. Next, supplement manufacturers further purify and crystallize this vitamin and add it to their products.
------------------------------------
*This is a quote from Morley that I have saved and really breaks it down simply and really helped me understand the affects of D. "Simply put, there are two Seesaws with Hormone-D:
o Seesaw #1: the balance of Active Hormone-D (1,25 Hydroxy) which your doctor NEVER tests to Storage Hormone-D (25 Hydroxy) which is what is ALWAYS tested... They ride on a rail together...
o Seesaw #2: the balance of Calcium to Magnesium... They, too, ride of a rail together..

Now, this is the most important part:
o Magnesium & Storage Hormone-D are tied together...
o Calcium and Active Hormone-D are tied together...

So, when Storage Hormone-D is LOW, this is what it REALLY means:
1) Magnesium is likely deficient or certainly Low...
2) Active Hormone-D is HIGH -- they are on a seesaw!
3) Calcium is ALSO HIGH -- again, it's on a seesaw with Maggie...
And when Storage Hormone-D is low, it means you need Mo'' Maggie (& Mo' Cholesterol) in your diet...
---------------------------------
Worrying about Hormone-D in isolation of these OTHER critical components of your overall health is very risky business... "

---------------------------------
*it is important to know the ratios of storae and active "D" and ionized calcium to know if supplementing D is warranted. If, yes, then from food forms as listed above. Not isolated D3.
----------------------------------
*When ingested, synthetic vitamin D products (including Lanolin) mobilize calcium from the bones into the bloodstream, producing hypercalcemia, kidney failure, central nervous system depression and heart failure – all signs of parathyroid dysfunction.
When taken in by the sun your body will only take in what it needs. Cod liver oil is natural Vit A. and D and your body know what to do with it.

------------------------------------
* I too followed Mercola for years. I took his advise order the only D3 test he suggests. Years later I am now Hypothyroid, messed up menses, high ionized calcium, have messed up copper levels and was feeling like I was 80. I only learned that it was all connected after joining this group and doing the labs to confirm what was truly going on. I stopped taking D and after 1 year trying to correct things I am feeling better. I am just trying to share what I learned about my health. It is ultimately a personal decision on how anyone handles their own health.
-------------------------------------
*Think of supplementing D based on 25 hydroxy D alone like treating thyroid jst based upon TSH.. you do not have a complete clinical picture.
--------------------------------------
* If you do decide to continue with the D3, please remember it has to be balanced with Vitamin A. I suggest desiccated liver supplements for not only Vitamin A but overall health. Also I hope you've checked for copper zinc imbalances. Copper is very important for immune health.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*Testing is the key to Hormone-D

Yes, this is what ALL the controversy is about with Hormone-D… getting from one state to the next!
The molecule on the Left is Calcidiol, aka 25(OH)D or the “Storage” form of the Hormone.

The molecule on the Right is Calcitriol, aka 1,25(OH)2 D3 or the “Active” form of the Hormone.

And you can’t get from Left state to Right state without consuming Magnesium and Mg-ATP… And that’s a fact.

Well, if you do nothing else today, please take the 10-min to watch this interview with Kenny L. De Meirleir, MD, PhD, a pre-eminent physiologist, internist and ME/CFS researcher based in Brussels:
He is MOST clear in his position re Hormone-D:

“Low 25(OH)D is just a ‘witness’ that you have too much 1,25(OH)2 D3…” (this is ~4:30 in the video…)
He is critical of his professional colleagues for recommending so much “D”-pendence on this supplement…
He indicates the ratio of 1,25(OH)2 D3 (“Active”) to 25(OH)D (“Storage”) SHOULD BE 1.5, “maybe” 2 times greater, but what he is now finding are patients with FOUR TO FIVE TIMES (4-5X) more “Active” Hormone, compared to their “Storage” Hormone. It sets the stage for severe mineral and metabolic imbalance.

I have LOOOOONG suspected and theorized that this was, in fact, exactly what was happening, and now have clinical proof from one of the foremost authorities on this very dynamic. And why is this so alarming? Because HIGH levels of “Active” Hormone-D are indications of excess, unregulated Calcium in the blood. (And what makes it “unregulated?” — Too little Magnesium, as you no doubt imagined!…)

So, what to do?…
Please look BEFORE you “D”cide to supplement!
Conduct the following four blood tests to have certainty of your need for additional supplemental “D” — not because you read a glitzy article, or that your neighbor stressed the need, or worse yet, that your not-fully-informed doctor “ordered” you to do so. That they are choosing to overlook the metabolic foundation of this issue is a bit unsettling, at best…

The tests that get to the metabolic truth are as follows:
Magnesium RBC (Red Blood Cell): it’s the KEY catalyst for creating “Storage” and “Active” forms of this Hormone…
25(OH)D blood test: it’s the measure of the “Storage” form, the precursor to “Active” form of this Hormone…
1,25(OH)2 D3 blood test: it’s the measure of the “Active” form of this Hormone…
“Ionized” Serum Calcium blood test (NOT a standard serum test!): given that Calcitriol’s JOB in the body is to put MORE Calcium into the blood stream, it only makes sense to know exactly how much you have there already, right?…

So, please, look BEFORE you take a “D”ive!

And if you need a refresher on why excess, unregulated Calcium is NOT your friend, please review this article that Carolyn Dean, MD, ND and I wrote in December, 2012:
The Calcium Wars: Magnesium deficiency causes heart disease - NaturalNews.com


I’m confident that this new information will be troubling to some, a bit confusing to others, but absolutely beneficial to all who take the time to read this, and act on it… I strongly encourage you to do so!
A votre sante!

Thanks for this article. I have been taking 10k iu ed for a couple of months now. I will drop the vit D and see if I feel any different.
 
Knight already knows this but for the rest of you, magnesium is one of the most underrated health supplements not just for bodybuilders, but for humans in general. I am seeing articles every week talking about how dramatically important it is to supplement with it.
 
Knight already knows this but for the rest of you, magnesium is one of the most underrated health supplements not just for bodybuilders, but for humans in general. I am seeing articles every week talking about how dramatically important it is to supplement with it.

Do you know what form of magnesium is best? There are so many out there.
 
Do you know what form of magnesium is best? There are so many out there.

Orotate and Taurate are good ones. Cardio Mag 2.0 is a very good product but I recently switched to a different brand because I got a really cheap price (Dr. Sinatra Magnesium Broad Spectrum Complex...it's a blend).
 
How much are you guys taking?

I used to take it religiously but stopped a while back.
 
Do you know what form of magnesium is best? There are so many out there.


Aspartate, taurate, glycinate, bis-glycinate, orotate (not in any order)are all very good to great.
 
I'm taking 450mg before bed. I am considering adding more during the day...not sure which kind or the amount yet.
 
Are all forms of magnesium beneficial for your digestive process or only citrate and oxide? I know doctors tell patients to supplement with citrate to get things moving per saY
 
Magnesium citrate is 90% bio available and only costs a couple of dollar.

What in the hell are you talking about bro?

Magnesium Citrate Supplements

Magnesium citrate (16% bioavailability) and stability constant of 2.8. Weak bonds provide a high bioavailability. Magnesium citrate works by attracting water through the tissues by osmosis. When the Magnesium citrate reaches the small intestine it attracts enough water to induce defecation. The extra water helps create more faeces, stimulating bowel motility and may have a mild laxative effect. This form of Magnesium functions best on an empty stomach followed by a full glass of water or juice to aid absorption.

Researchers have demonstrated that Magnesium bioavailability is greater in citrate than oxide taking the pH of stomach acid and alkalinity of pancreas into consideration. (Lindberg, Zobitz et al. 1990)

Blog - The Definitive Guide To Magnesium & Magnesium Supplements
 
Are all forms of magnesium beneficial for your digestive process or only citrate and oxide? I know doctors tell patients to supplement with citrate to get things moving per saY

I only noticed heavy diarrhea when I took magnesium oxide. I have taken 2 grams of citrate a day without any problem in that regard.
 
What in the hell are you talking about bro?

Magnesium Citrate Supplements

Magnesium citrate (16% bioavailability) and stability constant of 2.8. Weak bonds provide a high bioavailability. Magnesium citrate works by attracting water through the tissues by osmosis. When the Magnesium citrate reaches the small intestine it attracts enough water to induce defecation. The extra water helps create more faeces, stimulating bowel motility and may have a mild laxative effect. This form of Magnesium functions best on an empty stomach followed by a full glass of water or juice to aid absorption.

Researchers have demonstrated that Magnesium bioavailability is greater in citrate than oxide taking the pH of stomach acid and alkalinity of pancreas into consideration. (Lindberg, Zobitz et al. 1990)

Blog - The Definitive Guide To Magnesium & Magnesium Supplements

I just did a quick google search to look up the bio availability for the magnesium supplements. Bioavailability & elemental % of Magnesium Types - Supplements - LONGECITY

But the 16% makes a lot of sense because if I take 1/2 tsp from my citrate powder its only about 75% of the daily recommended dose
 
Last edited:
Interesting. I had to stop supplementing with d3 because it was making my joints noticeably very stiff and crack a lot. I heard caffeine and alcohol both deplete magnesium, that could explain in part why a lot of people are deficient.
 
Interesting. I had to stop supplementing with d3 because it was making my joints noticeably very stiff and crack a lot. I heard caffeine and alcohol both deplete magnesium, that could explain in part why a lot of people are deficient.

However, Magnesium is arguably one of the most depleted minerals in the soil. This is often attributed to:

The use of herbicides and pesticides that kill off worms and bacteria in the soil. It is the bacteria in the soil that make it possible for plants to absorb minerals.
Potash (potassium chloride or potassium carbonate) being used as a fertiliser. This is taken up by plants in preference to Calcium and Magnesium.
Soil erosion as Magnesium is leached out by heavy rain.
Acid rain (as occurs in air pollution) contains Nitric Acid. In the soil Nitric Acid reacts with Calcium and Magnesium to neutralise excess nitric acid. Eventually Calcium and Magnesium become depleted and the nitric acid reacts with Aluminium oxide in the soil. A reactive Aluminium builds up replacing Calcium and Magnesium in the plant. Calcium is needed for cell wall strength and Magnesium for chlorophyll for photosynthesis. So plants may grow taller and faster but are weak and lack chlorophyll.
Food processing decreases Magnesium. It is lost in grains during milling and making of white flour. It is also lost from vegetables when they are boiled.
Fluoride in water and toothpastes binds to Magnesium making it unavailable to the body. Fluoride is insoluble and replaces Magnesium in bone and cartilage.
Stress. Increased stress results in decreased stomach acid and decreased hydrochloric acid in the stomach results in decreased absorption of Magnesium. Commonly consumed antacids neutralise Hydrochloric acid, decreasing Magnesium absorption.
Magnesium absorption is altered by an unhealthy intestine for example; IBS, leaky gut, gluten and casein sensitivities, funguses & parasites, vitamin D deficiency and the formation of Magnesium soaps in the stools as Magnesium binds to unabsorbed fats.
Some foods can block the absorption of Magnesium. High protein diets can decrease Magnesium absorption. Tannins in tea bind and remove minerals including Magnesium. Oxalic acid in rhubarb, spinach and chard and phytic acid in cereals and soy also block absorption of Magnesium.
Junk foods, particularly sugary foods all use up extra Magnesium.
Saturated and trans fats alter cell wall integrity, making it more rigid which affects receptor site function and prevents nutrients from getting into or out of the cell.
Drugs - some drugs eliminate Magnesium. Antacids, antibiotics and diuretics all cause Magnesium depletion. Large consumption of caffeine and alcohol cause depletion with their diuretic effect.
Hypokalaemia (low potassium levels) can increase urinary Magnesium loss.
Body size - the larger the body, the larger the Magnesium pool, then the lower the absorption from any source.
60% of the body’s Magnesium is found in bones and teeth and the rest in muscle cells and body fluids with the highest concentration being in the heart and brain. The blood contains only 1% Magnesium.

The modern diet contains Calcium and Magnesium in the ratio of between 5:1 and 15: 1 compared to the “cave man” diet of 1:1. Too much calcium relative to Magnesium can result in constipation. Magnesium is needed for smooth muscle contraction and excessive calcium can interfere with this. Excessive calcium can lead to kidney stones, arteriosclerosis, dementia, asthma and decreased glucose uptake.

Magnesium is needed for 354 enzymes in the body. There are 3,751 Magnesium binding sites on human proteins.
 
For every molecule of sugar you consume, you need 54 molecules of Magnesium to process it!
 

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