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Getting more, out of less...

hemipower

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,258
Years of cycling…and not competing for that last 10 of them, I feel it’s time to turn the volume down and settle down. I still enjoy being the big guy, training like an animal, being ox strong…but there is no real REASON to continue on this roller coaster of risk. Yes, I know the risk of aas/gh are VERY exaggerated by the media and LE…and I know they should not be controlled substances (gh currently is not but is treated as such), but I understand they are (in part) due to the very FEW that see health problems with repeated ABUSE and for long periods of time. I think they should be kept out of kids’ hands and to an extent government regulated so we don’t get fake stuff but what we do to our bodies should be our choice. Without getting too deep into the political debates…having over half of the prisoners in America in for non-violent drug offenses is silly (not to mention the highest percentage of citizens locked up), costs these people a shot at a future, and tax payers an enormous amount of money. Not to mention what is spent fighting the war on drugs…which shouldn’t be fought in the first place. Relax the laws on drugs and spend money chasing killers and rapists and people that don’t belong in public.

But back to my point – the title of this is “getting more out of less”…and I say that as many of us are probably where I am. Shifting into TRT/HRT and want to get the most out of it…and stay as safe as we can health wise (and legally). So, how do we do that? How does it all come together?

Well…I have some theories, and NO they are not GROUND BREAKING or shocking news in any way. Just things I would like to discuss and hope to learn more…I have read several books but I know there is a WEALTH of knowledge here on PM. I have spent a few months lowering down to the minimums and seeing how things are tolerated and what I am left with physically and mentally. As we know, we feel INCREDIBLE on (for example) 600mg to 1g test, 4-8iu of gh, a few hundred mg of some other aas, and a handful of other ancillaries. But, what is NECESSARY to still have a good physique, feel good, have some libido, etc once we have done the above off and on for years, and THAT has become our definition of NORMAL? What do we do when lean 235 lbs in the mirror looks AVERAGE to us? We cannot run all these products forever and expect to be free of health issues…some can…many cannot. So that is where I am and think possibly many others are also. Before I get beat to a pulp, YES I realize this is a “hardcore bodybuilding” board and not life extension…but at some point even hardcore bodybuilders will be thinking the same as I am currently. I have spoken to a few old pros about this…and to feel NORMAL they still have to run pretty high doses…I don’t want to end up there. Heart issues and blood clot stories are becoming more and more frequent and that is not anything I want to have to sit here and post about. I have always been somewhat moderate …but even that can’t go on forever. So before I am forced to for health reasons…I decided to move to a healthier plan now.

Gear: So, what do we NEED? Of course a physician should be consulted and full blood work done, in no way do I intend my ramblings to replace physical findings from an exam/blood work. But - I don’t think many of us will be happy with 100mg of test a week. I feel like 250-300mg would be safe for the majority of us and some reasonable physicians will allow this. Be sure to also keep an eye on RBC/hemoglobin/hematocrit levels. But even this small dose can aromatize and then you have a new problem to deal with…estrogen. So, most physicians want to go with clomid or arimidex. I feel arimidex is too strong personally…and if I am to use it, it would be at about ¼ mg EOD. Or exemestane at 12.5mg for a little better cholesterol profile. But – then if estro is too low it messes up libido and gh profile…so at that point we would also need a couple iu of gh every morning. I have posted a few times asking around about masteron being used continuously or even switching between 100-200mg/wk masteron and 25-50mg/day proviron several times a year…say 3 months on one, swap to the other. I don’t know how safe this would be long term, but seems to be better than an AI all things considered. (I don’t have hair and neither gives me acne so the question then becomes if they will cause prostate issues long term since both are DHT based). Using masteron instead of an AI would still act as a weak anti-aromatase and minimize the negative effects of estro. Now – these are again, low doses aimed at the anti-estrogenic effects and also the SHBG effects to free up some test so even 250mg per week FEELS like 400mg…I would consider occasional low dose EQ, primo or anavar but if I can look/feel great on just basics (test/gh) then I don’t see a real need for the properties of these either.

Training: Of course…as anabolic levels drop, your workouts and diets must also adapt. I have noticed that it takes me noticeably longer to recover now that I am on about a third of the aas/gh I was previously…but still far superior to getting off altogether which after YEARS of this…isn’t really an option. I went from 3 days on, 1 off training and a 3 day split, to a different 3 day split (and soon 4 day) and 2 on, 1 off. Seems to be ok so far. I train with about 75-80% of the weights I previously did but with more sets/reps and more quality. I hardly use machines as ALL as I feel this is a better way to train your body to have useable/functional strength. I am ok shedding the bodybuilder look (some) for more fit and functional physique. Heaviest I have been is 250 lbs “offseason” and with 5% body fat last year I was about 214 lbs. At this point I would be happy with 215-220 lbs and maybe 8-9% fat. I feel that is attainable with what I am discussing here. Maybe I am a fool but I don’t think muscle that I have had for about 8 years will shed easily especially since it was not gained with excessively high dose cycles.

Diet wise I am leaning more towards a combination of Mountain Dog and Paleo. I certainly cannot get away with a cheat DAY anymore and have cut to 2 moderate cheat MEALS and mostly continuing my previous diet otherwise with a little less calories…meaning Mon-Fri low carb (no sugars and about 120 carbs a day), high protein and moderate fats with weekends similar only add in additional carbs (still mainly clean sources other than what may be in a cheat meal). I do a lot of whole eggs (free range preferred), grass fed steak, wild salmon, fruit, oats, brown rice, broccoli, natural peanut butter, mixed nuts, etc. So far so good…2 months in and down from lean 230 lbs to slightly softer 225 lbs but seem to be holding strength and size wise generally. I don’t think I am eating enough to maintain my muscle…but my hunger is not NEAR what it used to be. I think if anything, I would bump up the gh from 2iu in the morn and peptides at night…to 3iu in the morn and peptides twice a day. That should keep body fat down and increase the amount of muscle I can hold and should still keep me under the water retention and side effects from higher gh dose.

Supplements: I use a plethora of supplements. Of course the staples, a multivitamin, 4-6g fish oil a day, a quality blended protein, and a few times a year liver/organ cleanse. Also normally on thyroid support (if not on t4), mucuna pruriens EOD, and melatonin when needed for sleep. Which by the way – it seems like I sleep MORE now than before…not sure why. BCAA blends are sipped on most of the day. Preworkouts (ones without DMAA) are used before most workouts as my drive is a bit decreased lately. And joint support products. Nettle root could also be used in place of proviron somewhat…as I use Mucuna Pruriens in place of cabergoline. No, not nearly as strong…but on the lower doses we are talking about, should not need much. Again, getting more out of less. Currently considering a couple of additions: ALA and chromium as glucose disposal agents in an attempt to keep cholesterol profiles in check.

It’s almost depressing to set a goal for the first time, of NOT changing. Normally it’s more like spend half the year adding mass and the other half maintaining it while getting body fat as low as I can reasonably. But looking back I have added only about 2 lbs of LBM per year for about 10 years doing all this…not worth it. So, before I always had something inspiring and something to chase after. But for the first time…the goal is stay the same, be functionally strong, healthy, and look fit. But, like I said – tired of chasing side effects around and wondering why I feel a certain way. Indigestion and anger from tren? Low sex drive from deca? Pain in my joints from winny? Worried about high rbc from eq? Headaches and nose bleeds from anadrol? Back pain/pumps from dbol? Severe cramps from clen? It’s just not worth it to me anymore to go through that…yes, it USED to be. I wanted to be a big strong beast all winter and lean machine all summer…whatever it took. Things have changed…and I imagine this is on the minds of many of us that have been doing this for 10+ years…I have nearly obsessively pursued the physique I have always wanted…and now I want to pursue other things of interest (read more, build a muscle car, etc) and put “bodybuilding” on the backburner and be in a maintenance or holding pattern indefinitely. The amount of $$$ and time I have spent on this through the last 10-12 years is unreal and I don’t even want to add it up. Not to say it wasn’t worth it…I learned a LOT about myself, physiology, nutrition, biology and much more.
This isn’t to say, I will never have the desire to come back…but even then my intent will be getting the MOST out of the least and sticking with products with the highest benefit to side effect ratios (var, eq, primo for example). But – I hope there are others out there where I am now…and seeking similar information.
 
Im starting the Emeric trt protocol, 50mg of Test E eod, using a slin pin for almost all of the injects, no complaints and I love it.
 
Where are u injecting with slin pins if u don't mind me asking?
 
Good for you; I'm 47 and I am also where you are at. A Dr's prescription for test and a good variety of peptides keeps you out of trouble.
 
Good for you; I'm 47 and I am also where you are at. A Dr's prescription for test and a good variety of peptides keeps you out of trouble.

Thanks bud. How long have you been off actual cycles? Still feeling great? Maintaining most of your muscle and able to stay lean still?
Like I said so far I haven't slid backwards notably in the mirror or even at the gym other than not training as heavy or often but it's only been a few months...
 
Where are u injecting with slin pins if u don't mind me asking?

anywhere where the skin in thinner, and since you're injecting such a small amount of test, only 20iu's on a slin pin, you can pretty much pick wherever.
 
How are you brothers? I am 47 and years ago I did heavy cycles and stayed on for long periods, but about 10 years ago or so I ran into some health issues, liver values, blood cells out of balance ,etc, som I cleaned up my act, I decided to stay off for some time and start over with caution, doing light cycles , short, staying off longer than on, avoiding the strongest compounds, and I have to say that that was the best thing I ever did, I go 20 lbs lighter but I'm still 200lbs, lean and strong, no health problems whatsoever, so I'm going to keep on this trend for a long time. I train way lighter than before and of course have to watch my diet a bit closer. One thing that I believe is important to keep good health is cardio. God bless you all. Minister.
 
WOW...

Years of cycling…and not competing for that last 10 of them, I feel it’s time to turn the volume down and settle down. I still enjoy being the big guy, training like an animal, being ox strong…but there is no real REASON to continue on this roller coaster of risk. Yes, I know the risk of aas/gh are VERY exaggerated by the media and LE…and I know they should not be controlled substances (gh currently is not but is treated as such), but I understand they are (in part) due to the very FEW that see health problems with repeated ABUSE and for long periods of time. I think they should be kept out of kids’ hands and to an extent government regulated so we don’t get fake stuff but what we do to our bodies should be our choice. Without getting too deep into the political debates…having over half of the prisoners in America in for non-violent drug offenses is silly (not to mention the highest percentage of citizens locked up), costs these people a shot at a future, and tax payers an enormous amount of money. Not to mention what is spent fighting the war on drugs…which shouldn’t be fought in the first place. Relax the laws on drugs and spend money chasing killers and rapists and people that don’t belong in public.

But back to my point – the title of this is “getting more out of less”…and I say that as many of us are probably where I am. Shifting into TRT/HRT and want to get the most out of it…and stay as safe as we can health wise (and legally). So, how do we do that? How does it all come together?

Well…I have some theories, and NO they are not GROUND BREAKING or shocking news in any way. Just things I would like to discuss and hope to learn more…I have read several books but I know there is a WEALTH of knowledge here on PM. I have spent a few months lowering down to the minimums and seeing how things are tolerated and what I am left with physically and mentally. As we know, we feel INCREDIBLE on (for example) 600mg to 1g test, 4-8iu of gh, a few hundred mg of some other aas, and a handful of other ancillaries. But, what is NECESSARY to still have a good physique, feel good, have some libido, etc once we have done the above off and on for years, and THAT has become our definition of NORMAL? What do we do when lean 235 lbs in the mirror looks AVERAGE to us? We cannot run all these products forever and expect to be free of health issues…some can…many cannot. So that is where I am and think possibly many others are also. Before I get beat to a pulp, YES I realize this is a “hardcore bodybuilding” board and not life extension…but at some point even hardcore bodybuilders will be thinking the same as I am currently. I have spoken to a few old pros about this…and to feel NORMAL they still have to run pretty high doses…I don’t want to end up there. Heart issues and blood clot stories are becoming more and more frequent and that is not anything I want to have to sit here and post about. I have always been somewhat moderate …but even that can’t go on forever. So before I am forced to for health reasons…I decided to move to a healthier plan now.

Gear: So, what do we NEED? Of course a physician should be consulted and full blood work done, in no way do I intend my ramblings to replace physical findings from an exam/blood work. But - I don’t think many of us will be happy with 100mg of test a week. I feel like 250-300mg would be safe for the majority of us and some reasonable physicians will allow this. Be sure to also keep an eye on RBC/hemoglobin/hematocrit levels. But even this small dose can aromatize and then you have a new problem to deal with…estrogen. So, most physicians want to go with clomid or arimidex. I feel arimidex is too strong personally…and if I am to use it, it would be at about ¼ mg EOD. Or exemestane at 12.5mg for a little better cholesterol profile. But – then if estro is too low it messes up libido and gh profile…so at that point we would also need a couple iu of gh every morning. I have posted a few times asking around about masteron being used continuously or even switching between 100-200mg/wk masteron and 25-50mg/day proviron several times a year…say 3 months on one, swap to the other. I don’t know how safe this would be long term, but seems to be better than an AI all things considered. (I don’t have hair and neither gives me acne so the question then becomes if they will cause prostate issues long term since both are DHT based). Using masteron instead of an AI would still act as a weak anti-aromatase and minimize the negative effects of estro. Now – these are again, low doses aimed at the anti-estrogenic effects and also the SHBG effects to free up some test so even 250mg per week FEELS like 400mg…I would consider occasional low dose EQ, primo or anavar but if I can look/feel great on just basics (test/gh) then I don’t see a real need for the properties of these either.

Training: Of course…as anabolic levels drop, your workouts and diets must also adapt. I have noticed that it takes me noticeably longer to recover now that I am on about a third of the aas/gh I was previously…but still far superior to getting off altogether which after YEARS of this…isn’t really an option. I went from 3 days on, 1 off training and a 3 day split, to a different 3 day split (and soon 4 day) and 2 on, 1 off. Seems to be ok so far. I train with about 75-80% of the weights I previously did but with more sets/reps and more quality. I hardly use machines as ALL as I feel this is a better way to train your body to have useable/functional strength. I am ok shedding the bodybuilder look (some) for more fit and functional physique. Heaviest I have been is 250 lbs “offseason” and with 5% body fat last year I was about 214 lbs. At this point I would be happy with 215-220 lbs and maybe 8-9% fat. I feel that is attainable with what I am discussing here. Maybe I am a fool but I don’t think muscle that I have had for about 8 years will shed easily especially since it was not gained with excessively high dose cycles.

Diet wise I am leaning more towards a combination of Mountain Dog and Paleo. I certainly cannot get away with a cheat DAY anymore and have cut to 2 moderate cheat MEALS and mostly continuing my previous diet otherwise with a little less calories…meaning Mon-Fri low carb (no sugars and about 120 carbs a day), high protein and moderate fats with weekends similar only add in additional carbs (still mainly clean sources other than what may be in a cheat meal). I do a lot of whole eggs (free range preferred), grass fed steak, wild salmon, fruit, oats, brown rice, broccoli, natural peanut butter, mixed nuts, etc. So far so good…2 months in and down from lean 230 lbs to slightly softer 225 lbs but seem to be holding strength and size wise generally. I don’t think I am eating enough to maintain my muscle…but my hunger is not NEAR what it used to be. I think if anything, I would bump up the gh from 2iu in the morn and peptides at night…to 3iu in the morn and peptides twice a day. That should keep body fat down and increase the amount of muscle I can hold and should still keep me under the water retention and side effects from higher gh dose.

Supplements: I use a plethora of supplements. Of course the staples, a multivitamin, 4-6g fish oil a day, a quality blended protein, and a few times a year liver/organ cleanse. Also normally on thyroid support (if not on t4), mucuna pruriens EOD, and melatonin when needed for sleep. Which by the way – it seems like I sleep MORE now than before…not sure why. BCAA blends are sipped on most of the day. Preworkouts (ones without DMAA) are used before most workouts as my drive is a bit decreased lately. And joint support products. Nettle root could also be used in place of proviron somewhat…as I use Mucuna Pruriens in place of cabergoline. No, not nearly as strong…but on the lower doses we are talking about, should not need much. Again, getting more out of less. Currently considering a couple of additions: ALA and chromium as glucose disposal agents in an attempt to keep cholesterol profiles in check.

It’s almost depressing to set a goal for the first time, of NOT changing. Normally it’s more like spend half the year adding mass and the other half maintaining it while getting body fat as low as I can reasonably. But looking back I have added only about 2 lbs of LBM per year for about 10 years doing all this…not worth it. So, before I always had something inspiring and something to chase after. But for the first time…the goal is stay the same, be functionally strong, healthy, and look fit. But, like I said – tired of chasing side effects around and wondering why I feel a certain way. Indigestion and anger from tren? Low sex drive from deca? Pain in my joints from winny? Worried about high rbc from eq? Headaches and nose bleeds from anadrol? Back pain/pumps from dbol? Severe cramps from clen? It’s just not worth it to me anymore to go through that…yes, it USED to be. I wanted to be a big strong beast all winter and lean machine all summer…whatever it took. Things have changed…and I imagine this is on the minds of many of us that have been doing this for 10+ years…I have nearly obsessively pursued the physique I have always wanted…and now I want to pursue other things of interest (read more, build a muscle car, etc) and put “bodybuilding” on the backburner and be in a maintenance or holding pattern indefinitely. The amount of $$$ and time I have spent on this through the last 10-12 years is unreal and I don’t even want to add it up. Not to say it wasn’t worth it…I learned a LOT about myself, physiology, nutrition, biology and much more.
This isn’t to say, I will never have the desire to come back…but even then my intent will be getting the MOST out of the least and sticking with products with the highest benefit to side effect ratios (var, eq, primo for example). But – I hope there are others out there where I am now…and seeking similar information.

Hemi I am EXACTLY where you are now, finally met the right woman and have to settle down(if not now then never since Im friggin just over 50 now) my daughters grown and flew the coop so Im in a different place now.
I have been off everything and feelin pretty damn good, been doing about the same protocol as you for over 15 years now minus the GH, use TPs Daa formula and a host of supps daily and dont go to the gym nearly as much but still look pretty damn good, (I am naturally lean). I am always lookin for new ideas and just joined the LEF.org. I did my last cycle a while back and finished it with winny and proviron and then did some peps and man I liked what I saw and felt, and no crash either and minimal loss of libido and strength. So now just kinda cruisin naturally and not sure what to do next, I mean my GF doesnt know that I juiced and Id rather keep it that way, but I also dont want to turn into a couch potato or a regular Joe physique wise either. I may do peps again and if i can EVER afford Gh with it that would be worth a shot i think. Man this place has been great and from the info here and the good bros and the sponsors here I was able to try so many different things, Prami, cialis, PT-141, juice, peps, supps etc. Its been great and I am not leaving but just have to sort of transition away from it somewhat and spend my time with my lady and doing other stuff, although we will still be going to the gym and being really active, she's got as much energy as i do and that is way cool. Kinda bummed though cuz getting old sucks! :(
 
Thanks bud. How long have you been off actual cycles? Still feeling great? Maintaining most of your muscle and able to stay lean still?
Like I said so far I haven't slid backwards notably in the mirror or even at the gym other than not training as heavy or often but it's only been a few months...

2006 was the last time I competed. Broke my wrist and blew out my knee playing basketball; slowly healed up but had absolutely no energy without the drugs. Went to the Dr. got checked out and had a T level (quote from the Dr.) "testosterone level of a woman in menopause". I have worked my way up to 200mg a week of CYP with the Dr's bessing and actually with the peptides am finally getting back on top of my game. Periodically I drop down to 100mg of test and throw in 100 mg of Deca for 3 months. I also am not against taking 3IU's of Rips post work out; very moderate but I feel good.
 
How are you brothers? I am 47 and years ago I did heavy cycles and stayed on for long periods, but about 10 years ago or so I ran into some health issues, liver values, blood cells out of balance ,etc, som I cleaned up my act, I decided to stay off for some time and start over with caution, doing light cycles , short, staying off longer than on, avoiding the strongest compounds, and I have to say that that was the best thing I ever did, I go 20 lbs lighter but I'm still 200lbs, lean and strong, no health problems whatsoever, so I'm going to keep on this trend for a long time. I train way lighter than before and of course have to watch my diet a bit closer. One thing that I believe is important to keep good health is cardio. God bless you all. Minister.

Thanks Minister! I am thinking I am most likely only a few years away from being forced to lower into what I am doing now, and I hate to be TOLD to do something so that's kinda why I am stopping all harsh aas now and reducing my doses to just what I "NEED" from here on. I think I can still have a good physique and stay over 215 lbs somewhat lean...and I don't need to be more than that any longer...it's messing with my head, but it's the right thing to do.
Also - part of the reason I did this, is that I don't want any more of "us" to become statistics! Or become the media's weapon against aas because they are not nearly as bad as they say. But I fear soon we will see...more and more serious health issues from pro bb level guys...so many pros just disappear and we don't hear about their major health issues...I know many of US don't do near the 2-4g a week they do...but the risk is still there even though it is reduced further. Anything taken to extremes can end up bad...
So now, I am VERY moderate with my use. HRT + a tiny bit extra here and there...maintain...feel good...look the best I can.
 
Hemi I am EXACTLY where you are now, finally met the right woman and have to settle down(if not now then never since Im friggin just over 50 now) my daughters grown and flew the coop so Im in a different place now.
I have been off everything and feelin pretty damn good, been doing about the same protocol as you for over 15 years now minus the GH, use TPs Daa formula and a host of supps daily and dont go to the gym nearly as much but still look pretty damn good, (I am naturally lean). I am always lookin for new ideas and just joined the LEF.org. I did my last cycle a while back and finished it with winny and proviron and then did some peps and man I liked what I saw and felt, and no crash either and minimal loss of libido and strength. So now just kinda cruisin naturally and not sure what to do next, I mean my GF doesnt know that I juiced and Id rather keep it that way, but I also dont want to turn into a couch potato or a regular Joe physique wise either. I may do peps again and if i can EVER afford Gh with it that would be worth a shot i think. Man this place has been great and from the info here and the good bros and the sponsors here I was able to try so many different things, Prami, cialis, PT-141, juice, peps, supps etc. Its been great and I am not leaving but just have to sort of transition away from it somewhat and spend my time with my lady and doing other stuff, although we will still be going to the gym and being really active, she's got as much energy as i do and that is way cool. Kinda bummed though cuz getting old sucks! :(

I don't think I mentioned it but finally having a great woman is actually part of the reason I am doing this also. Chicks don't typically like HUGE guys anyway...muscular/lean works better! ;)
Same here - I don't want to be "average" physique ever! And that is what I fear almost obsessively...and why I started this thread. Hoping for some MAGIC from the brains of the guru's here on holding strong where I am. ha. I have a lot of respect for some of the knowledge here and hoped to bolt on a few minor changes to make what I am doing even better...
Honestly I don't think it gets much better than test, gh, peptides...and occasional use of aas with high benefit to side effect ratio (masteron, primo, eq, and var mainly). And depending how the first 3-5 months go it may be JUST test/gh/peptides permanently...that's honestly what I would prefer for ease of use and safety.
 
2006 was the last time I competed. Broke my wrist and blew out my knee playing basketball; slowly healed up but had absolutely no energy without the drugs. Went to the Dr. got checked out and had a T level (quote from the Dr.) "testosterone level of a woman in menopause". I have worked my way up to 200mg a week of CYP with the Dr's bessing and actually with the peptides am finally getting back on top of my game. Periodically I drop down to 100mg of test and throw in 100 mg of Deca for 3 months. I also am not against taking 3IU's of Rips post work out; very moderate but I feel good.

Wow - yes I think gh is key with test. I personally don't like deca much and avoid it. How does your physique compare with what you had when you competed? What about your workouts? Frequency change or tempo or weights/intensity?
 
this sounds very interesting... Definately going to try that protocol..

Im starting the Emeric trt protocol, 50mg of Test E eod, using a slin pin for almost all of the injects, no complaints and I love it.
 
.....Honestly I don't think it gets much better than test, gh, peptides...and occasional use of aas with high benefit to side effect ratio (masteron, primo, eq, and var mainly). And depending how the first 3-5 months go it may be JUST test/gh/peptides permanently...that's honestly what I would prefer for ease of use and safety.

since I turned 40 this year.. this has been my way of thinking and I can honestly say I feel and look the best I have ever been..!!
:headbang:
 
Im starting the Emeric trt protocol, 50mg of Test E eod, using a slin pin for almost all of the injects, no complaints and I love it.

I was curious about this also...In my mid 30s so seems like I am turning this corner a bit earlier than other posters but, I am on 200-300mg cyp once weekly IM for TRT purposes...honestly my usual protocol is mixing cyp and enanth together and taking this blend of about 225mg cyp/enanth every 5th day...

But interested to learn about this slin pin version and searching through Emeric's posts trying to locate it...is this done sub-q then? I don't see how the oil would get through a slin pin...? does this allow more absorb than IM? Very interested in more info...
 
Last edited:
I was curious about this also...I am on 200-300mg cyp once weekly IM for TRT purposes...honestly my usual protocol is mixing cyp and enanth together and taking this blend of about 225mg cyp/enanth every 5th day...

But interested to learn about this slin pin version and searching through Emeric's posts trying to locate it...is this done sub-q then? I don't see how the oil would get through a slin pin...? does this allow more absorb than IM? Very interested in more info...

Oil goes right through a slin pin very easy IM!
 
good read

hemi good read brother
hey i was curious
can you explain why you would use examstene instead of clomid?

is there a major difference or
would throwing in some clomid /nolva/ a dex throughout wouldnt hurt
 
I made this transition this year as well. No more competing, no more heavy use. For the guys who are coming off after being on a long time, what worked for me was to do a very long taper down and finally drop all the gear and stick with just gh, hcg, and nolva for a couple months. For supplements I used DAA and B12, kept my energy up and felt great....and diet has been very clean, very high protein, with the occasional cheat meal.

I did this and didn't get a major crash, sure I dropped about 10-15lbs of mass but I did it slowly. I'm leaner now and feel a hell of a lot better. Also, get yourself with a good hrt doc asap and learn about how they will be treating you. The clinic I'm working with just did my initial bloodwork 3 months after going off everything and since I'm a bit younger than some of you guys (mid 30s) the doc's want to wait a bit longer and retest before actually putting me on anything.

The wait annoys me and I am tempted to just start my own hrt....but damn, it actually feels really good not having to get up in the morning and pin yourself...and yes, the women do like you a lot more when you're not as wide as you are tall, lol.
 
This a good read I have started cutting back some myself recently. I am only 41 but don't want to have no real serious problems.
 

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