Dim to control estrogen on trt

[gorilla2015]

Hello...my doc has me on 200 mg a week of cyp fir trt..my estrogen and e2 levels were high after a few weeks and put me on arimidex 1mg 3 x a week. The arimidex has made me feel like total shit and has given me insomnia and drove my anxiety thru the roof. Has anyone taken DIM instead of an si to control estrogen? I know Dante had a post about it a few years ago but can’t find it in the search feature. Any input would be appreciated..thanks

 

[pickapeck]

I use it but I don't have any blood work to document how well it works. The compounds facilitates conversion of estradiol to less potent estrogens. So basically it works on a differnt metabolic pathways than AIs.

 

[Kaladryn]

I tried it, it doesn't actually help metabolize estradiol, it works on other estrogens that affect women not men. It had no effect on my estradiol levels. I was doing 10mg/day test cyp and with the DIM my estradiol was 20 and without the DIM a month later my estradiol was 19, T was 630 and 655 respectively.

 

[akimbo]

3x1mg @200mg test per week might just have eradicated your estrogen. No surprise you dont feel good with that dose.

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[buck]

Hello...my doc has me on 200 mg a week of cyp fir trt..my estrogen and e2 levels were high after a few weeks and put me on arimidex 1mg 3 x a week. The arimidex has made me feel like total shit and has given me insomnia and drove my anxiety thru the roof. Has anyone taken DIM instead of an si to control estrogen? I know Dante had a post about it a few years ago but can’t find it in the search feature. Any input would be appreciated..thanks

The arimidex definitely sounds like over kill for only 200mg/week. I would think .5 2x/week would have been a better place to start.

 

[pickapeck]

The more I look into this DIM the less I like it.

Andrologia. 2016 Dec;48(10):1155-1165. doi: 10.1111/and.12554. Epub 2016 Feb 29.
3,3 diindolylmethane leads to apoptosis, decreases sperm quality, affects blood estradiol 17 β and testosterone, oestrogen (α and β) and androgen receptor levels in the reproductive system in male rats.

Aksu EH1, Akman O1, Ömür AD1, Karakuş E2, Can I3, Kandemir FM4, Dorman E5, Uçar Ö1.
Author information
Abstract
3,3 Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a major digestive product of indole-3 carbinol, obtained from Brassica family vegetables such as broccoli, cabbage and Brussels sprouts. This study aimed to investigate the effects of DIM on sperm parameters, histological structures of testicular tissues, blood testosterone (T) and estradiol 17-β (E2) in male rats. Thirty-eight male Sprague Dawley rats were used. Rats were divided into four groups: Group I: referred as Control group, received corn oil only; Group II: as DIM-10, rats received 10 mg kg-1 DIM; Group III: as DIM-50, rats received 50 mg kg-1 DIM; Group IV: as DIM-100, received 100 mg kg-1 DIM during 53 days. Spermatological parameters, malondialdehyde (MDA) levels of testes and serum T and E2 levels were assayed. Histopathological examinations of tests were done. DIM caused an increase in MDA levels. It decreased motility and live sperm rates and increased degeneration of testicular tissues. While DIM-10 did not affect abnormal sperm rate, higher concentrations increased the abnormalities. Sperm density was higher in DIM-10 groups when compared to both other groups. Only DIM-50 had an anti-androgenic effect among all groups. Only, DIM-10 showed anti-estrogenic activity as compared to higher DIM groups. In conclusion, DIM (i) had side effect on some sperm characteristics, (ii) increased the MDA levels and (iii) led to histological degeneration of testicular tissues and apoptosis in a dose-dependent manner.
© 2016 Blackwell Verlag GmbH.

KEYWORDS:
Androgen receptors; apoptosis; diindolylmethane; male reproductive system; rat
PMID: 26926141 DOI: 10.1111/and.12554

 

[pickapeck]

I tried it, it doesn't actually help metabolize estradiol, it works on other estrogens that affect women not men. It had no effect on my estradiol levels. I was doing 10mg/day test cyp and with the DIM my estradiol was 20 and without the DIM a month later my estradiol was 19, T was 630 and 655 respectively.

It favors shunting into the 2 hydroxy rather than the 16 hydroxy metabolic pathway of estradiol. Those pathways exist in both men and women.

 

[nothuman]

This thread is making me reconsider using it as a quasi-AI if I ever take anything that could raise my estro

 

[gorilla2015]

The thing is when I was just using test with no AI I felt good but was having Ed problems more than normal. When my blood work came back on just the test at 200mg my e2 was high like 120 or somthing. My doc put me on the arimidex to control the estrogen but I have felt like shit the past 2 weeks while on it. Sex drive became worse , insomnia and no appetite and severe anxiety . I suffer from anxiety as it is but the arimidex made it 10 fold x worse. So the past 2 weeks have been a nightmare .. that’s why I was looking into the dim ..Dante had a good post about a few years ago but can’t find it

 

[Kaladryn]

It favors shunting into the 2 hydroxy rather than the 16 hydroxy metabolic pathway of estradiol. Those pathways exist in both men and women.

To be clear, DIM does not increase the metabolism of estradiol, it increases one of the pathways for metabolism of estradiol, so you get more of an estradiol metabolite that is considered "protective" to the body in some ways (assuming to both men and women?).

I mistakenly though DIM might increase overall estradiol metabolism and lower my levels, however, I soon found that didn't work.

 

[OutToLunch]

This thread is making me reconsider using it as a quasi-AI if I ever take anything that could raise my estro

Exaxtly

 

[Knight9]

To be clear, DIM does not increase the metabolism of estradiol, it increases one of the pathways for metabolism of estradiol, so you get more of an estradiol metabolite that is considered "protective" to the body in some ways (assuming to both men and women?).

I mistakenly though DIM might increase overall estradiol metabolism and lower my levels, however, I soon found that didn't work.

I tried it, it doesn't actually help metabolize estradiol, it works on other estrogens that affect women not men. It had no effect on my estradiol levels. I was doing 10mg/day test cyp and with the DIM my estradiol was 20 and without the DIM a month later my estradiol was 19, T was 630 and 655 respectively.

Did it raise your free test at all?

 

[karmveerg]

1mg arimidex at 3 times per week for a dose of 200mg test is extreme overkill, you probably crashed your estradiol for sure. Switch over to Aromasin and take a pill everytime you pin (im assuming once)

 

[nothuman]

Did it raise your free test at all?

I know you asked him but it didn't really for me. I had testosterone levels checked both on and off it. I mean it was up by 2 on it but I think that was more of a blood draw timing thing.