replacing (part of) protein intake with EAAs?

[buzzbomb138]

so im planning my upcoming lean bulk cycle that ill be starting in the next few wks. i usually start at around 3800 cals with ~350g protein and increase up slowly with accompanying weight gain (usually f and c, pro stays where its at), and it usually ends around 4200-4300 cals ed.

anyways, ive seen it discussed on here and other boards that some ppl like to replace some of their protein intake with EAAs and this intrigues me. eating 350g protein ed is a chore and makes me constantly feel bloated, gives me indigestion and just all around sucks lol. so what im thinking is doing something more like 250-275g pro and then replacing the rest with ~30g EAAs as according to what ive read, every 10g EAAs equals 40g protein (can anyone confirm this?), so 30g EAAs = 120g pro, still keeping me in the 350-400g protein range i want to be in, and i will make up the other cals with c and f.

has anyone done this? if so, how were the results? the most important thing to me is getting the most out of my cycle, and if i can make the eating burden less with EAAs, itd be great. constantly being full and feeling like shit is to me the shittiest part of this lifestyle, but i do it cuz i dont wanna short change my gains. but if the gains are the same or better doing it this way, id be super happy. but if the results are shittier, ill just man up and eat all the protein like always.

my idea is to take 10g EAAs intrawo, then do 5g EAAs about 15 min prior to my other 4 meals over the course of the day (ive heard this is the best way to take them since the leucine in it will kickstart pro synth for the protein u consume in the meal).

my current stats r 5'10, 200 lbs, 12-13%. my cycle will be test e/tren e at 700/400 for 10-12 wks with a DNP PSMF in the beginning while the oils build up to get down to 190 lbs ~10% before beginning the lean bulk part.

any input is appreciated, thanks!

 

[pimpman]

I would never replace protein intake for eaa's I would add eaa but not replace protein for it

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[Elvia1023]

so im planning my upcoming lean bulk cycle that ill be starting in the next few wks. i usually start at around 3800 cals with ~350g protein and increase up slowly with accompanying weight gain (usually f and c, pro stays where its at), and it usually ends around 4200-4300 cals ed.

anyways, ive seen it discussed on here and other boards that some ppl like to replace some of their protein intake with EAAs and this intrigues me. eating 350g protein ed is a chore and makes me constantly feel bloated, gives me indigestion and just all around sucks lol. so what im thinking is doing something more like 250-275g pro and then replacing the rest with ~30g EAAs as according to what ive read, every 10g EAAs equals 40g protein (can anyone confirm this?), so 30g EAAs = 120g pro, still keeping me in the 350-400g protein range i want to be in, and i will make up the other cals with c and f.

has anyone done this? if so, how were the results? the most important thing to me is getting the most out of my cycle, and if i can make the eating burden less with EAAs, itd be great. constantly being full and feeling like shit is to me the shittiest part of this lifestyle, but i do it cuz i dont wanna short change my gains. but if the gains are the same or better doing it this way, id be super happy. but if the results are shittier, ill just man up and eat all the protein like always.

my idea is to take 10g EAAs intrawo, then do 5g EAAs about 15 min prior to my other 4 meals over the course of the day (ive heard this is the best way to take them since the leucine in it will kickstart pro synth for the protein u consume in the meal).

my current stats r 5'10, 200 lbs, 12-13%. my cycle will be test e/tren e at 700/400 for 10-12 wks with a DNP PSMF in the beginning while the oils build up to get down to 190 lbs ~10% before beginning the lean bulk part.

any input is appreciated, thanks!

I would personally add EAA's in between meals. I would drink minimal fluids during meals to aid digestion and consume loads of water (eaa's) in between. 250-300g protein from whole food would be fine with the eaa's in between. You obviously can/will change things (up protein etc) as time goes by and you start growing.

 

[buzzbomb138]

I would never replace protein intake for eaa's I would add eaa but not replace protein for it

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ok noted, thanks for the input

I would personally add EAA's in between meals. I would drink minimal fluids during meals to aid digestion and consume loads of water (eaa's) in between. 250-300g protein from whole food would be fine with the eaa's in between. You obviously can/will change things (up protein etc) as time goes by and you start growing.

so elvia u think my idea would work, just change the timing of the EAAs intake?


just to clarify for everybody, my whole idea is to give my body a similar amount of available aminos to build muscle with from 250g pro + 30g EAAs as i would from just 350g pro. it seems like it would work on paper but im afraid it might not work in reality and id just be shortchanging myself some gains. but eating a shit ton of protein ed sucks and im kinda to the point of being over it lol, but if i can find a way to be able to give my body the same amount of muscle building nutrients with less gastric distress, itd make things so much easier lol. ive seen this discussed before and thought it seemed like a good idea.

 

[Elvia1023]

ok noted, thanks for the input



so elvia u think my idea would work, just change the timing of the EAAs intake?


just to clarify for everybody, my whole idea is to give my body a similar amount of available aminos to build muscle with from 250g pro + 30g EAAs as i would from just 350g pro. it seems like it would work on paper but im afraid it might not work in reality and id just be shortchanging myself some gains. but eating a shit ton of protein ed sucks and im kinda to the point of being over it lol, but if i can find a way to be able to give my body the same amount of muscle building nutrients with less gastric distress, itd make things so much easier lol. ive seen this discussed before and thought it seemed like a good idea.

I think any way would work as long as you are consistent with it. Although I wouldn't go by that online calculation and take 30g eaa's for 100g less protein. Although 5g in 6 bottles of water (30g) between meals is a good starting point. EAA's are very low (zero) in calories so are excellent at boosting protein intake without adding too many calories. Now if whole food protein is reduced and eaa's added you would be consuming less calories so they would need to be replaced elsewhere. However I was merely suggesting a rough starting plan and I think for your stats 250g-300 protein from whole foods and eaa's between meals is a great starting plan. Over time you could increase things if needed. If consuming loads of protein causes you too many issues you don't need to go overboard and carbs/fat are protein sparing. Although are you sure it's the protein that is the issue and perhaps some of your carbs/fats could be adding to your digestive issues. Don't think you are short changing yourself if part of your protein intake is from powder. It's just as good as real food for most people (many disagree). The key is finding what works best for you.

 

[buzzbomb138]

I think any way would work as long as you are consistent with it. Although I wouldn't go by that online calculation and take 30g eaa's for 100g less protein. Although 5g in 6 bottles of water (30g) between meals is a good starting point. EAA's are very low (zero) in calories so are excellent at boosting protein intake without adding too many calories. Now if whole food protein is reduced and eaa's added you would be consuming less calories so they would need to be replaced elsewhere. However I was merely suggesting a rough starting plan and I think for your stats 250g-300 protein from whole foods and eaa's between meals is a great starting plan. Over time you could increase things if needed. If consuming loads of protein causes you too many issues you don't need to go overboard and carbs/fat are protein sparing. Although are you sure it's the protein that is the issue and perhaps some of your carbs/fats could be adding to your digestive issues. Don't think you are short changing yourself if part of your protein intake is from powder. It's just as good as real food for most people (many disagree). The key is finding what works best for you.

ya absolutely i will be replacing the lost cals from the replaced pro in the form of c and f. and i think it could be the protein intake as in between cycles i drop down to around 220-230g pro ed and do better with it, but it also could be the fact i usually run orals with my cycles and im ditching that as i think they worsen the situation and i have to take omeprazole to deal with the heartburn and indigestion from them. i also have ulcerative colitis so that doesnt help either, but nothing can be done about that other than keeping it in remission with meds.


i guess the root of my question is if EAAs are a viable substitute for dietary protein or is it just a bunch of supplement company BS marketing strategy? the science behind them seems to indicate so but i was hoping to get some real world experience from ppl on this board as u guys r very knowledgeable and i value ur opinions.

 

[Elvia1023]

ya absolutely i will be replacing the lost cals from the replaced pro in the form of c and f. and i think it could be the protein intake as in between cycles i drop down to around 220-230g pro ed and do better with it, but it also could be the fact i usually run orals with my cycles and im ditching that as i think they worsen the situation and i have to take omeprazole to deal with the heartburn and indigestion from them. i also have ulcerative colitis so that doesnt help either, but nothing can be done about that other than keeping it in remission with meds.


i guess the root of my question is if EAAs are a viable substitute for dietary protein or is it just a bunch of supplement company BS marketing strategy? the science behind them seems to indicate so but i was hoping to get some real world experience from ppl on this board as u guys r very knowledgeable and i value ur opinions.

They are definitely a viable option. I 100% notice a difference when I add eaa's in consistently. I also struggle to get in enough protein so that's a big factor why they can make such a big difference to me. Some guys act like liquid protein is inferior but it's not the case. I would always put whole foods first (obviously) but your not short changing yourself replacing some whole food protein with powder if you mentally and physically struggle to get the needed amounts in. Not sure how you do with whey isolate but you could even use approx 25g in a small amount of water with each meal as an alternative. Like with anything your source/brand will be key but there are definitely some good eaa products on the market.

 

[qbkilla]

I would use 100 percent real food, do you really trust supplement companies? I don't. There may be 0 EAA in what you buy, it's not regulated. What you buy from the grocery store is. That money would be better spent on a massage once a month for recovery or AAS, or hell anything.

No way you need that amount of protein IMO, you will get better results if you eat more carbs. If you really think that is alot of food just up the carbs, carbs go down easy, or fats. Not a fan of huge protein intakes especially if you feel thats alot of food and will be hard to get down. Your kidneys are your most delicate organ eating 400g protein per day is not healthy in my personal opinion and will not lead to more gains.

 

[buzzbomb138]

They are definitely a viable option. I 100% notice a difference when I add eaa's in consistently. I also struggle to get in enough protein so that's a big factor why they can make such a big difference to me. Some guys act like liquid protein is inferior but it's not the case. I would always put whole foods first (obviously) but your not short changing yourself replacing some whole food protein with powder if you mentally and physically struggle to get the needed amounts in. Not sure how you do with whey isolate but you could even use approx 25g in a small amount of water with each meal as an alternative. Like with anything your source/brand will be key but there are definitely some good eaa products on the market.

cool, this is exactly the type of reply im looking for, real world experience and personal results from it. ya i already use whey iso in my shakes and thought of that too but i kinda did the quick math on it and EAAs are about the same price per serving and if they give the same results with taking up even less room in my stomach ill just do that.

I would use 100 percent real food, do you really trust supplement companies? I don't. There may be 0 EAA in what you buy, it's not regulated. What you buy from the grocery store is. That money would be better spent on a massage once a month for recovery or AAS, or hell anything.

No way you need that amount of protein IMO, you will get better results if you eat more carbs. If you really think that is alot of food just up the carbs, carbs go down easy, or fats. Not a fan of huge protein intakes especially if you feel thats alot of food and will be hard to get down. Your kidneys are your most delicate organ eating 400g protein per day is not healthy in my personal opinion and will not lead to more gains.

ya i hear ya, thats the exact attitude i had for yrs about it, just stick to regular protein just to be sure. but now after doing some research im starting to become open minded about at least trying it.

as far as the protein intake being too much, off cycle id agree, but on cycle (not a dr/scientist, but) i dont see an upper end on too much protein intake, ur body is gonna be much more efficient at utilizing that amount of aminos so id rather error on the side of too much than not enough, especially for just a few months at a time. kidney damage is only a concern for those with preexisting kidney issues, but if ur healthy its a nonissue. well respected bros on here like big A and dante advocate for higher protein intakes on cycle so ill take their word on it.

and the EAAs ill be using are from truenutrition, and with dante's rep, im sure theyll be legit

 

[Elvia1023]

cool, this is exactly the type of reply im looking for, real world experience and personal results from it. ya i already use whey iso in my shakes and thought of that too but i kinda did the quick math on it and EAAs are about the same price per serving and if they give the same results with taking up even less room in my stomach ill just do that.



ya i hear ya, thats the exact attitude i had for yrs about it, just stick to regular protein just to be sure. but now after doing some research im starting to become open minded about at least trying it.

as far as the protein intake being too much, off cycle id agree, but on cycle (not a dr/scientist, but) i dont see an upper end on too much protein intake, ur body is gonna be much more efficient at utilizing that amount of aminos so id rather error on the side of too much than not enough, especially for just a few months at a time. kidney damage is only a concern for those with preexisting kidney issues, but if ur healthy its a nonissue. well respected bros on here like big A and dante advocate for higher protein intakes on cycle so ill take their word on it.

and the EAAs ill be using are from truenutrition, and with dante's rep, im sure theyll be legit

There are various studies that show protein is "damaging" but they are flawed at best. All the latest data including a year long study done on resistance trained individuals show high protein is in no way damaging to the kidneys, liver, heart etc. Obviously like with anything use some common sense and I am not telling people to go out and eat as much protein as possible. However I can safely state the protein is damaging thoughts people have are exaggerated at best. As I stated I think 250-300g from whole foods with the added eaa's is a good amount for you and you can adjust (move up) if needed.

 

[qbkilla]

cool, this is exactly the type of reply im looking for, real world experience and personal results from it. ya i already use whey iso in my shakes and thought of that too but i kinda did the quick math on it and EAAs are about the same price per serving and if they give the same results with taking up even less room in my stomach ill just do that.



ya i hear ya, thats the exact attitude i had for yrs about it, just stick to regular protein just to be sure. but now after doing some research im starting to become open minded about at least trying it.

as far as the protein intake being too much, off cycle id agree, but on cycle (not a dr/scientist, but) i dont see an upper end on too much protein intake, ur body is gonna be much more efficient at utilizing that amount of aminos so id rather error on the side of too much than not enough, especially for just a few months at a time. kidney damage is only a concern for those with preexisting kidney issues, but if ur healthy its a nonissue. well respected bros on here like big A and dante advocate for higher protein intakes on cycle so ill take their word on it.

and the EAAs ill be using are from truenutrition, and with dante's rep, im sure theyll be legit

my personal opinion, unless you are getting them tested yourself, I wouldn't trust supplements, thats just me. they are not regulated

have you had bloodwork done recently? I may get it done occasionally on that amount of protein per day, just to make BUN and creatinine are in range. you only get 1 set of kidneys. but if creatinine is fine when takin that much your kidneys should be fine, I just don't consider it optimal considering some of that protein could be replaced with carbs and fat that also serve a role in the body. for me the best purpose of high protein is satiety. so say im dieting on 2500 cal, more protein will fill me up more than more carbs.

 

[qbkilla]

There are various studies that show protein is "damaging" but they are flawed at best. All the latest data including a year long study done on resistance trained individuals show high protein is in no way damaging to the kidneys, liver, heart etc. Obviously like with anything use some common sense and I am not telling people to go out and eat as much protein as possible. However I can safely state the protein is damaging thoughts people have are exaggerated at best. As I stated I think 250-300g from whole foods with the added eaa's is a good amount for you and you can adjust (move up) if needed.

id say 250 is a reasonable amount, maybe up to 300 but not 400. what amount were they using in these studies though? I know I had protein in my urine and the doctor told me her crossfit athletes did too, and protein supplements are harder on the kidneys than natural protein. she told me not to decrease my intake but cut the protein supplements my values would come down and she was correct. this was consistent with her crossfirt athletes. I would probably agree that high amounts (not 400 but 300) are ok with people who have good kidneys. but my question would be, how many bodybuilders have no kidney damage up to this point (assuming years of AAS abuse, high blood pressure, etc).

I think one of the best things in general for health is overall bodyweight and keeping blood pressure in check. I will be healthier at 190lbs than 220lbs. Pushing our body to extremes, even when ripped, is not good on the organs. And a 220lb male, while not to us, but to our organs is not healthy. Fortunately for me I don't have what it takes to be 220lbs lean lol, but many have better genetics and can.

I always prefer to be on the side of caution.

 

[buzzbomb138]

There are various studies that show protein is "damaging" but they are flawed at best. All the latest data including a year long study done on resistance trained individuals show high protein is in no way damaging to the kidneys, liver, heart etc. Obviously like with anything use some common sense and I am not telling people to go out and eat as much protein as possible. However I can safely state the protein is damaging thoughts people have are exaggerated at best. As I stated I think 250-300g from whole foods with the added eaa's is a good amount for you and you can adjust (move up) if needed.

ya exactly, that info is old and outdated. i recently saw a video by milos sarcev and he stated he eats 400g+ ed still and has done so for many yrs and his bloods are fine.

my personal opinion, unless you are getting them tested yourself, I wouldn't trust supplements, thats just me. they are not regulated

have you had bloodwork done recently? I may get it done occasionally on that amount of protein per day, just to make BUN and creatinine are in range. you only get 1 set of kidneys. but if creatinine is fine when takin that much your kidneys should be fine, I just don't consider it optimal considering some of that protein could be replaced with carbs and fat that also serve a role in the body. for me the best purpose of high protein is satiety. so say im dieting on 2500 cal, more protein will fill me up more than more carbs.

yes i get bw regularly for my UC and the meds they have me on for it and it always comes back good. i get what ur sayin and in general agree, thats why i keep AAS doses moderate, ill never be a huge beast like some guys on here so i see no need for it. but in regards to my kidneys and protein intake, im sure ill be fine. but if my bw ever starts to show otherwise, ill change w/o hesitation.

 

[Elvia1023]

id say 250 is a reasonable amount, maybe up to 300 but not 400. what amount were they using in these studies though? I know I had protein in my urine and the doctor told me her crossfit athletes did too, and protein supplements are harder on the kidneys than natural protein. she told me not to decrease my intake but cut the protein supplements my values would come down and she was correct. this was consistent with her crossfirt athletes. I would probably agree that high amounts (not 400 but 300) are ok with people who have good kidneys. but my question would be, how many bodybuilders have no kidney damage up to this point (assuming years of AAS abuse, high blood pressure, etc).

I think one of the best things in general for health is overall bodyweight and keeping blood pressure in check. I will be healthier at 190lbs than 220lbs. Pushing our body to extremes, even when ripped, is not good on the organs. And a 220lb male, while not to us, but to our organs is not healthy. Fortunately for me I don't have what it takes to be 220lbs lean lol, but many have better genetics and can.

I always prefer to be on the side of caution.

Everyone has what it takes to be 220 pounds and lean... well within reason... not if someone is 4ft 11 It just takes some people much more effort than others. Plus some people will look crap at those stats and others will look amazing. Everyone can do it though with enough effort and consistency... high protein helps as well

I do agree with what you state but I think it's more about overall caloric intake. Taking in a surplus of calories over time is simply not good for ones health. Obviously some foods are much worse than others as well. I always use the extreme example of the guy who dieted eating McDonalds food only and all his blood markers improved. Obviously McDonalds is crap and no one should be eating it frequently if they value their health. The bigger we are the the greater the potential health risks but that is a whole different topic we could discuss for hours.

As I posted people just need to use common sense and that's why I recommended 250-300g and move up if needed. This subject reminds me of the carbs are bad for insulin sensitivity thoughts many have when it's infact overall calories that truly matters. Now if someone has impaired kidneys they need to be careful and I do agree there are probably many on here with undiagnosed kidney issues. Being on the side of caution is always smart.

The high protein diet in the one study done over 12 months (4/2/4/2 so 6 months) consisted of 3.32g per kg so nothing crazy but for a 100kg (220 pound) male that would be 332g protein. It's worth reading all the study data on the link listed below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5078648/

5. Conclusions

In male subjects with several years of experience with resistance training, chronic consumption of a diet high in protein had no harmful effects on any measures of health. Furthermore, there was no change in body weight, fat mass, or lean body mass despite eating more total calories and protein. Contrary to popular belief, the consumption of a high protein diet is not mutually exclusive with a diet high in fiber nor does the consumption of cholesterol above the standard recommendations result in any untoward effects on blood lipids. This is the first 1-year longitudinal investigation in resistance-trained males that demonstrates the lack of harm caused by a high protein diet.

 

[buzzbomb138]

that is def good to know, thanks for posting that elvia. but lets plz keep my thread on track about EAAs and their usefulness for replacing protein intake.


anyone else got an opinion/experience in the matter?

 

[1bigmofo]

whats ur thinking on consuming ur EAAs 15 minutes before ur meals? Obviously whole food sources are best eggs, chcken, turkey, reds, etc. ur body is going to store those protein sources and will be utilized as needed over the day. Me, im consuming the bulk of my EAAs upon waking, before/during/after strenuous training and then some before sleep along with casein. thats how i do it.

 

[OutToLunch]

Slower digesting protein that doesn’t run thru you. Something like a whey, egg/white,casein blend

 

[buzzbomb138]

whats ur thinking on consuming ur EAAs 15 minutes before ur meals? Obviously whole food sources are best eggs, chcken, turkey, reds, etc. ur body is going to store those protein sources and will be utilized as needed over the day. Me, im consuming the bulk of my EAAs upon waking, before/during/after strenuous training and then some before sleep along with casein. thats how i do it.

ya i was thinking 15 min before meals because the leucine should spur mTOR for the dietary proteins to take over for max pro synth

Slower digesting protein that doesn’t run thru you. Something like a whey, egg/white,casein blend

ya im already supplementing a couple shakes ed, the EAAs would be on top of them

 

[buzzbomb138]

bump for more opinions plz

 

[prodaf]

whole food is better cause it s anabolic, eaa is just a supplement to your nutrition