CJC1295 causes GH "bleed"??? What to substitute???

[Newman]

Hi everyone.

Okay, when it comes to peptides, I admit I'm pretty new, but I am trying to study somewhat before asking too many unreasearched questions, so please go easy on me.

Anyway, the reason I opened this thread is that I was just reading through Dat's giant peptides thread when I stumbled across his warning that CJC1295 is no longer desireable because it causes something counterproductive called "GH bleed" (IIRC).

So, if CJC1295 is off the menu, then what reasonably safe & effective substitutes are recomended???

Forgive me if the answer is obvious. I know that synergy is available between GHRH & GHS products, but I'm unaware whether there are safer/better GHRH products available.

Thanks much.

 

[Quad-smack]

Mod GRF(1-29)

 

[espskillz]

Ok so I have been hearing about this gh bleed is that grf will not cause gh bleed.

My questions is that grf is pretty much the same thing as dac just not as long of a half life right?

so isn't grf going to give you gh bleed but just for a shorter period of time?

But with grf you will be inj 3 times a day so you will have the bleed with the pluses.

What im getting at is cjc w dac if you run it 3 times a day is it not just as good or better than grf?

If grf does not make gh bleed why not.

Will dat please chime in on this?

 

[Newman]

Ok so I have been hearing about this gh bleed is that grf will not cause gh bleed.

Where did you read that? Link?



My questions is that grf is pretty much the same thing as dac just not as long of a half life right?

Wish I knew too...



so isn't grf going to give you gh bleed but just for a shorter period of time?

I had that fear myself when I first read Macro's warning about CJC1295 & GH bleed. Hopefully mod grf 1-29 will prove to NOT cause bleed



But with grf you will be inj 3 times a day so you will have the bleed with the pluses.

Pluses or pulses?



What im getting at is cjc w dac if you run it 3 times a day is it not just as good or better than grf?

If cjc causes bleed & grf doesn't, then it looks like the answer is no...



If grf does not make gh bleed why not.

Are you asking why grf doesn't cause bleed, or are you asking why nor try cjc with dac? 3 times daily




Will dat please chime in on this?

Let's hope so...

.

 

[disgraziato]

The answer of a substitute for cjc was given. It's Modified Grf(1-29). Half life is comparable to ghrp and creates the pulses that we want when administered. True cjc-1295 has a half life measured in days, not minutes and remains floating around, exerting its effect the whole time. It raises your trough/baseline levels of hgh, thusly termed GH bleed. Sure, it'll create that synergistic pulse when you shoot the ghrp, but your levels after the pulse remain elevated. This is not a desirable environment for most of us.

 

[Newman]

The answer of a substitute for cjc was given. It's Modified Grf(1-29). Half life is comparable to ghrp and creates the pulses that we want when administered.

So, are you saying that modified Grf(1-29) WON't rais baseline ("trough") GH levels?

I know that the anser of substituting mod Grf 1-29 was already given, but I'm hoping someone here might have some sort of reference available to verify that. I'm not trying to sound lazy in asking for a reference, it's just that I figured that since "gh bleed" has been attributed to CJC relatively recently, that someone who follows peptides discussion closer than I do might remember seeing a reference mentioned somewhere.

Just trying to avoid blindly following brolore, you know what I mean bro?

If nobody remembers any reference material indicating mod Grf 1-29 trough gh levels, then I will just have to dig around myself. I just thought maybe someone might have one handy, that's all.

Thanks!

 

[disgraziato]

So, are you saying that modified Grf(1-29) WON't rais baseline ("trough") GH levels?

I know that the anser of substituting mod Grf 1-29 was already given, but I'm hoping someone here might have some sort of reference available to verify that. I'm not trying to sound lazy in asking for a reference, it's just that I figured that since "gh bleed" has been attributed to CJC relatively recently, that someone who follows peptides discussion closer than I do might remember seeing a reference mentioned somewhere.

Just trying to avoid blindly following brolore, you know what I mean bro?

If nobody remembers any reference material indicating mod Grf 1-29 trough gh levels, then I will just have to dig around myself. I just thought maybe someone might have one handy, that's all.

Thanks!

Here's an excerpt that should clear things up for you. It is courtesy of DatBtrue and can be found in his FIRST POST and FIRST PAGE of his lengthy work. There are MANY other posts that discuss these substances, their effects, etc. etc. Hope it helps:

Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) however is currently available in several forms which vary only by their half-lives. Naturally occurring GHRH is either a 40 or 44 amino acid peptide with the bioactive portion residing in the first 29 amino acids. This shortened peptide identical in behavior and half-life to that of GHRH is called Growth Hormone Releasing Factor and is abbreviated as GRF(1-29).

GRF(1-29) is produced and sold as a drug called Sermorelin. It has a short-half life measured in minutes. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Suspension (i.e. unestered).

To increase the stability and half-life of GRF(1-29) four amino acid changes where made to its structure. These changes increase the half-life beyond 30 minutes which is more than sufficient to exert a sustained effect which will maximize a GH pulse. This form is often called tetrasubstituted GRF(1-29) (or modified) and unfortunately & confusingly mislabeled as CJC-1295. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Propionate (i.e. short-estered).

Note that some may also refer to this as CJC-1295 without the DAC (Drug Affinity Complex).

Frequent dosing of either the aforementioned modified GRF(1-29) or regular GRF(1-29) is required and as previously indicated works synergistically with a GHRP.

In an attempt to create a more convenient long-lasting GHRH, a compound known as CJC-1295 was created. This compound is identical to the aforementioned modified GRF(1-29) with the addition of the amino acid Lysine which links to a non-peptide molecule known as a "Drug Affinity Complex (DAC)". This complex allows GRF(1-29) to bind to albumin post-injection in plasma and extends its half-life to that of days. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Cypionate (i.e. long-estered). However this is not accurate. CJC-1295 results in continual GH bleed. Although natural pulsation still occurs CJC-1295 does nothing to increase those pulses. Instead it raises base levels of GH and creates a more feminized pattern of release. This not desirable.

Modified GRF(1-29)however when combined with a GHRP brings about a substantial pulse which has desirable effects

 

[Newman]

Diz,

I already read the FIRST POST of the FIRST PAGE of Dat's thread but much of it was OVER MY HEAD.

I wasn't seeking a cut & paste of Dat's writing, I was looking for formal research results. Original study findings would likely be even tougher for a layman like me to interpret, but at least I wouldn't be blindly following brolore. (whether sustantiated or not)

Respectfully, I hope you don't consider "expert" opinon to be a substitute for research. Experts have been known to dissagree. Even research results sometims contradict..

Dat generally knows his stuff, but he's been corrected by others here, that's why I wanted a reference. Now admittedly, a formal reference (typically a link to a study) would also be over my head, but at least I could look for any statement on GRF 1-29 (mod) regarding GH bleed.

Thanks anyway for your effort. I'll just have to Google "GRF 1-29" & "GH bleed" or whatever the proper technical term for that turns out to be. I'll probably need to find that term first...

 

[disgraziato]

Bro- I'm trying to be helpful here bro, not advise you to follow "brolore" (lmao btw). I was not insinuating that Dats word is gospel, and I always urge people to do their own research rather than just saying "tell me what to take and how much." So I respect where your coming from. What you're missing though, is that Dat has done more research into actual case studies and clinical trials and medical papers etc etc etc than anyone else, bar none.
So, having that in mind, after you read a certain piece of Dats posts, at the end of said post,HE ALWAYS LISTS HIS REFERENCES So read his refences, find the books, or reports or papers or trials that he's referred to for his information and you can see them for yourself. There the actual studies etc that you're saying you want to see.
Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Good Luck, I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[Newman]

Bro- I'm trying to be helpful here bro, not advise you to follow "brolore" (lmao btw).

Yeah, I know. I'm only trying to make SURE I got solid info, that's all. Simply trusting an expert doesn't do that.





I was not insinuating that Dats word is gospel, and I always urge people to do their own research rather than just saying "tell me what to take and how much." So I respect where your coming from.

Fair enough.





What you're missing though, is that Dat has done more research into actual case studies and clinical trials and medical papers etc etc etc than anyone else, bar none.

Well, actually, as I mentioned earlier, I've read other experts correcting him before, so as far as I'm concerned, nobody is infallable.





So, having that in mind, after you read a certain piece of Dats posts, at the end of said post,HE ALWAYS LISTS HIS REFERENCES So read his refences, find the books, or reports or papers or trials that he's referred to for his information and you can see them for yourself. There the actual studies etc that you're saying you want to see.

Thanks. I'll have to go recheck that.






Anyway, I'm done with this thread.

I hope I din't run you off. I only wanted to make SURE that GRF 1-29 (mod) does NOT cause bleed like CJC-1295 does.





Good Luck, I hope you find what you're looking for.

Thanks bro.

.

 

[the_anapolack]

all respect due to dat.....but now people are bashing cjc as worthless.(not you but some in other threads).......does that negate all the positive feedback that was experienced but hundereds across hundreds of boards of cjc? i believe dat....but i believe he meant grf was slightly better.....and i have yet to read that anyones results were profoundly better since switching to grf from cjc...prices on cjc now because of this seem to be lower meaning more bang for the buck.....and sermorelin prices are up....it shows that even peptide distributers even read dats info haha.......but if you already have the cjc......dont chuck it out....go ahead and use it and switch to grf next order

 

[vein5]

I love cjc with dac, you just need to use ghrp-6 along with it.

 

[Agent]

Cant stand CJC-1295.

I used enormous amounts of CJC-1295 for a year and switched to Mod. GRF(1-29) incombination with GHRP-2. I love 100ug Mod. GRF(1-29) and 200ug GHRP-2 before bed and before workout. Better and cheaper than the best pharmaceutical HGH Jintropin, jitropin AQ, Serostim, Humatropin. The absolute best and do not use IGF-1 LR3 it will shut down GH production and lower IGF-1 levels. Only use PEG-MGF for 2-3week cycle if anything else.

 

[bengelha]

I had the same question, because 1293 seemed to last even longer it would seem to me that it too is an 'always on' peptide that would cause the 'loner secretion cells' in fact I thought it brought the entire group into question.

So right now I have some 1293 which I am hearing in this thread might be still useful if I combined it with ghrp-6 ?

Thanks

 

[Suffocation]

exactly what I plan on doing... lol...

.....but if you already have the cjc......dont chuck it out....go ahead and use it and switch to grf next order

 

[teewoods]

all respect due to dat.....but now people are bashing cjc as worthless.(not you but some in other threads).......does that negate all the positive feedback that was experienced but hundereds across hundreds of boards of cjc? i believe dat....but i believe he meant grf was slightly better.....and i have yet to read that anyones results were profoundly better since switching to grf from cjc...prices on cjc now because of this seem to be lower meaning more bang for the buck.....and sermorelin prices are up....it shows that even peptide distributers even read dats info haha.......but if you already have the cjc......dont chuck it out....go ahead and use it and switch to grf next order

I believe many still take cjc but its without DAC.

 

[disgraziato]

I believe many still take cjc but its without DAC.

CJC-1295 w/out DAC = modified grf(1-29)


PLEASE GO READ!

 

[teewoods]

CJC-1295 w/out DAC = modified grf(1-29)


PLEASE GO READ!

Oh wow so cjc w/o dac is not cjc? hahahaha pls dont let me use semantics to embarrass you.

 

[jbud]

The reason many people see and saw such good results with the CJC1295 W DAC is because many of those bottles actually contained Mod GRF1-29. Most of the peptides you guys are buying are from far away, then sold to someone and then probably to someone else. It takes about 1000 bucks to get a license to sell Peptides and there is no test to have to take. So if your source is telling you its CJC w DAC unless you analyze it you will never know. 90% of the people selling peptides don't know the difference between CJC 1295 wo DAC CJC1295 W DAC, GRF 1-29, Mod GRF 1-29, and CJC 1293. I have read several different sources use the same name and when you ask for the actual amino sequence it doesnt even match the name. Its just like when you ask what to mix with your IGF. It isn't always the same, but 95% of the people that sell it will give you the same old standard answer but you just accept it as fact and run. Thats why some people see results and some dont.