This new "enhanced TRT" trend....

[BoredStiff]

Anyone notice this? Rather than cycling or blasting there's kind of a thing to staying on, it seems to be agreed upon, under 500mg of total AAS year round and just never cruising or blasting.

There's people on forums doing it but the more "famous" ones, Marc Lobliner on 300mg Test/200mg Deca/MK677, Jerry Ward on 200 test/200 Deca (these two have prescriptions), Jon Skywalker on 250 test/250 Masteron (he changes it constantly but that's his go to cruise as of now).

What's a little more shocking to me is the guys that are actually getting it prescribed and are posting up good bloodwork.

This isn't a thread to start a war, I'm just curious on what people think of this because years back I kind of tossed this idea around and people thought I was insane but my theory came from three points:

1. Blasting/Cruising is basically a constant up and down in not just hormones, but you basically trash your lipids, blood pressure etc. for a period of time, then wait for them to normalize, then trash them again for a period time over and over
2. Most people are blasting on a lot of stuff other than testosterone, some stuff that is borderline poison, ie. tren, superdrol, DNP. Some of this stuff your body is clearly trying to reject and people just try to cope with the side effects and ride them out.
3. While being on 300-400mg of testosterone and possibly HGH year round will obviously create some issues, it seems a bit safer in some regards to just be at a stable level all year, this would be with a perfect diet, cardio, regular blood donations and very good health supplementation. (I can't speak for deca, I really don't know much about it and even though it's prescribed, I would only feel comfortable with test and growth).

Don't jump all over me, the above are just my assumptions and could easily be totally wrong. Just curious what the smarter guys on here make of this because it seems to be the new thing with a lot of the guys now trying to lose size after all the death scares and just maintain a more moderately above average physique.

 

[tren_plz]

Anyone notice this? Rather than cycling or blasting there's kind of a thing to staying on, it seems to be agreed upon, under 500mg of total AAS year round and just never cruising or blasting.

There's people on forums doing it but the more "famous" ones, Marc Lobliner on 300mg Test/200mg Deca/MK677, Jerry Ward on 200 test/200 Deca (these two have prescriptions), Jon Skywalker on 250 test/250 Masteron (he changes it constantly but that's his go to cruise as of now).

What's a little more shocking to me is the guys that are actually getting it prescribed and are posting up good bloodwork.

This isn't a thread to start a war, I'm just curious on what people think of this because years back I kind of tossed this idea around and people thought I was insane but my theory came from three points:

1. Blasting/Cruising is basically a constant up and down in not just hormones, but you basically trash your lipids, blood pressure etc. for a period of time, then wait for them to normalize, then trash them again for a period time over and over
2. Most people are blasting on a lot of stuff other than testosterone, some stuff that is borderline poison, ie. tren, superdrol, DNP. Some of this stuff your body is clearly trying to reject and people just try to cope with the side effects and ride them out.
3. While being on 300-400mg of testosterone and possibly HGH year round will obviously create some issues, it seems a bit safer in some regards to just be at a stable level all year, this would be with a perfect diet, cardio, regular blood donations and very good health supplementation. (I can't speak for deca, I really don't know much about it and even though it's prescribed, I would only feel comfortable with test and growth).

Don't jump all over me, the above are just my assumptions and could easily be totally wrong. Just curious what the smarter guys on here make of this because it seems to be the new thing with a lot of the guys now trying to lose size after all the death scares and just maintain a more moderately above average physique.

Lobliner isnt on that stack. Jerry Ward is a notorious dumbass liar. Those aren't 'trt'. They know it, we know it.

Sure, 150-200mg test, 100mg deca is easy to get scripted. Shop for a 'sports endo'..

You can run this yourself and get bloods its not rocket science..

 

[NEMSZ]

Lobliner isnt on that stack. Jerry Ward is a notorious dumbass liar. Those aren't 'trt'. They know it, we know it.

Sure, 150-200mg test, 100mg deca is easy to get scripted. Shop for a 'sports endo'..

You can run this yourself and get bloods its not rocket science..

Agree with this;

I know a few guys getting these similar dosages prescribed and getting bloodwork and monitored every 3 months... Anything else is utter bullshit...

“Self prescribing” has only contributed to problems from what I’ve seen...

 

[Elvia1023]

Lobliner isnt on that stack. Jerry Ward is a notorious dumbass liar. Those aren't 'trt'. They know it, we know it.

Sure, 150-200mg test, 100mg deca is easy to get scripted. Shop for a 'sports endo'..

You can run this yourself and get bloods its not rocket science..

x10

Most people don't have a clue what goes on. It's true these mini cycles seemed to have gained popularity but guys have been running year long cycles for years. Most people lie as well. I think most of us know many people who run such doses. I blast for long periods at times myself. I don't really follow any set routine and I also used to come off everything a lot but not gonna do that now. I should add my cruise is 150mg test per week so I am not advocating or giving excuses. It will likely come back and bite them health wise. However there is a misconception on here that people who run these doses must have horrible blood work when a lot of the time they simply don't. Not everyones blood work goes to shit. Others run 40mg dbol and 20 blood markers go out of range.

OP haven't you run something like 2 cycles before? I know you said tren wasn't worth it then 2 weeks later you couldn't stand to be off it. Then you stated it was underdosed and even gave an exact dosage of what it must have been. Plus the craziest thing was you mentioned earlier in the thread it was your very 1st time using tren. How could you know it was underdosed if you had nothing to compare it against? That thread was deleted as was your other one.

OP do you really think 500mg test/deca will fuck up everyones bloodwork? I have had loads of bloodwork on big cycles and the only thing that is usually bad is HDL (due to oral usage) but all other cholesterol markers are usually good.

 

[maldorf]

One big thing to keep in mind is that you can have good blood work but have cardiomyopathy and not even know it. I had it happen to me, I know from experience. Just something to keep in mind. Good blood work is not a sure sign that you are healthy, I can say that for heart at least. Im not sure about other organs.

 

[Elvia1023]

One big thing to keep in mind is that you can have good blood work but have cardiomyopathy and not even know it. I had it happen to me, I know from experience. Just something to keep in mind. Good blood work is not a sure sign that you are healthy, I can say that for heart at least. Im not sure about other organs.

Exactly. I wish I could have full body scans of everything (especially for the heart) every year. That would be great but cost a fortune especially where I live. I looked into it but it cost a ridiculous amount. Plus even with scans and blood work combined you may appear healthy and die 2moro. Just do your own thing, be happy and try to stay as healthy as you can/want.

 

[maldorf]

Exactly. I wish I could have full body scans of everything (especially for the heart) every year. That would be great but cost a fortune especially where I live. I looked into it but it cost a ridiculous amount. Plus even with scans and blood work combined you may appear healthy and die 2moro. Just do your own thing, be happy and try to stay as healthy as you can/want.

These guys on a constant year long cruise of 300 mg+ are going to pay for that eventually. Just a matter of time. It is their choice though, but I think most don't realize the risk they are taking.

 

[NEMSZ]

One big thing to keep in mind is that you can have good blood work but have cardiomyopathy and not even know it. I had it happen to me, I know from experience. Just something to keep in mind. Good blood work is not a sure sign that you are healthy, I can say that for heart at least. Im not sure about other organs.

Sorry to bring this up again or here as I know you have a thread from the beginning of your health issues but I ask just to confirm and save a little time reading through all that again

But wasn’t your situation, besides the obvious lifestyle choices, also inherited/genetic in some way? I could be wrong but I recall you saying you not only had high blood pressure and Hematocrit because of the AAS etc but you also had a genetic predisposition to clotting and heart issues?

I do agree with you though that people should do thorough checks at least once in a while... I’m currently going through absolutely everything myself.. Having you around has really taught me a lot.. Health comes 1st.. I’ll never do anything other than TRT again, and that’s if I get scripted, I’m going through those motions now so we’ll see.. Been off Test for 2 months maybe a little more..

Anyway, thanks in advance for the refresh on your situation..

 

[Cito33189]

you need to establish your baseline.

what shocked me i was running 125mg of test maybe a little more i cant remeber but around there and my test levels came back in the 730 range.

my friend never took anything in his life same age as me his test level naturally was 900 i kid you not. thats really high. we were both 30

I think its best to get your own bloods done and not worry to much what other people are doing. its really kind of irrelavant what anyone else does.

 

[roasthawg]

I'm in my forties now and have kinda convinced myself of this. Rather than blasting a gram of whatever I stick with 500mg test and 2.5iu gh for the better part of the year. I'll drop down to a cruise of 150 for a month or two twice a year. Bloods stay pretty good like this, my hdl is always low but everything else is usually in range. I spend a small fortune on supplements every month hoping to mitigate any potential damage I might be doing to my heart.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[BoredStiff]

OP haven't you run something like 2 cycles before? I know you said tren wasn't worth it then 2 weeks later you couldn't stand to be off it. Then you stated it was underdosed and even gave an exact dosage of what it must have been. Plus the craziest thing was you mentioned earlier in the thread it was your very 1st time using tren. How could you know it was underdosed if you had nothing to compare it against? That thread was deleted as was your other one.

To clear that whole thing up real quick, because it rubbed so many people the wrong way that the threads got deleted: I was on heavy amounts of gear for basically four years straight in college, it was just really basic; High-dose Test, dbol, deca was all I did, not counting a few pro-hormone trials. This was about 16 years ago though, after college I stayed natural for 10+ years then went on TRT after I tested low (probably due to all the abuse in college). So even though I know what it's like to be on about 2grams of gear, it was so long ago and I was young and stupid that I don't consider myself an expert on AAS.

The whole Tren drama came about because it was my first cycle and I was not impressed at all with the physical results. The sides weren't that bad but the night sweats were too much for me. I couldn't stand being off because the PSYCHHOLOGICAL effects were amazing on it, Dbol euphoria x10 plus 3 cialis tabs is what it sort of felt like. I assume it was underdosed because people have made it out to be "results by the day", and I looked a bit more cut up and dry but I emphasize a BIT, like same as what I got from Masteron.

Hopefully that finally kills it. Ive said it before, I loved tren as a nootropic, I thought it was pretty useless physique wise considering how toxic it is.

 

[BoredStiff]

The ideal is obviously to put your test levels around 600-800ng/dl and not use any other steroids, but then this whole website would basically shut down. Know what I mean? I think it's a good thing to discuss things like this, I know people get a little pissy about it, but it's out there, people are doing it and are open about it (the three I mentioned, including Lobliner, were straight from their mouth (Lobliner has dropped the deca now), whether they are lying or not, I have no idea.

Again, I'm not stating that this new form of "enhanced TRT" is healthy. I've just always wondered if it's actually healthier overall to be at moderately elevated testosterone levels but have no fluctuations or no other AAS in your system, as opposed to being on 100mg of test, then trashing your body for 10 weeks, then back on 100mg of test, then trashing your body for 10 weeks over and over until you get tired of bodybuilding.

That constant change back and forth, elevating your hormones, putting cattle hormones etc. in your body, messing up your lipids then letting them recover. That's what has always worried me. Because of course, blood work isn't everything, but looking at your lipids after a tren or winstrol cycle, then essentially waiting until they return to normal, so you can tank them again... to me, almost seems more unhealthy than just being on 350 test, 4iu of growth all year.

 

[animal eater]

The bottom line is people want to be as big as hell, strong as hell, jacked etc. pretty well full time. Unless someone is unbelievably nieve, they must know at some time they will have to pay the piper.

These TRT's aren't TRT at all but just extented cycles. There is no free lunch.

 

[Flex500]

I can see why there are mixed opinions here. At face value staying on 300-500mgs all year is not a good idea (I go down to 120mgs test a week at least 5 months of the year with some gh). BUT...we aren't talking about gym rats here. We are talking about guys who want to be 200-225+ with veins all over all year. Often these are guys who were blasting all year. Meaning, 1-2 grams a week for long periods of time and then maybe dropping down to "just" 500mgs to a gram of test.

Instead, a lot of guys are now deciding to never go on 1+ grams, stay away from the super harsh stuff and stay on moderate cycles year round (as you noted 300-500mgs total seems common). I'm not standing up for that idea, but what are we talking about? Is it a good idea for someone to take 300mgs of primo and 150 of test for 8 months or blast grams? I'd take the former all day.

Also, as psychologically f*cked as it is sounds I think this strategy is helping folks be ok with downsizing. Most of my buddies do this...400mgs all year, 200 test/200mast etc etc and never do a "hardcore" blast. Ever. They've lost size but being "on" makes them sort of ok with that.

On the other hand I"m not going to argue telling someone who is natural or a true 120mgs of test a week trt will be healthier on 500mgs all year...obviously not.

But, again, if you took every bodybuilder taking grams of shit most, if not all, year and said now just take 300mgs forever I'd wager overall health would improve. Not optimal for health but I'd bet you'd see an improvement.

 

[nothuman]

I can say that when I add anything to my true TRT dose, my blood pressure and resting heart rate increase unless I double my blood pressure meds (Telmisartan and Nebivolol).

The blood work staying good is nice but that's not all that matters.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I’ve been back on my self prescribed version of HRT for 8 weeks after 9 1/2 months natural. I’m absolutely blown away with how fast I’m growing. My strength is about where it was already compared to where it was a year ago on 1.4 grams (Test, nandrolone, anadrol, tren). It’s no joke that going natural resets your androgen receptors. The bad part of the 9.5 month natural stint was I lost damn near all my muscle and got fat. I was so weak and achy it was no fun at all. There were a couple advantages of being natural with virtually no androgens. I only had to shave every 3 days. I was super mellow. My face seemed to reverse in age by 10 years due to no bloat at all. The wrinkles went away and my skin was softer with a much better complexion meaning I wasn’t beet red all the time from high hemoglobin.
Now I get stronger every single workout on at least one exercise. My arms are the part that are stubborn at returning to their previous size. I have arthritis in my elbows and wrists which prevent me from lifting very heavy on biceps and triceps which I believe is the issue.

My weekly TRT is
105mg testosterone phenylpropionate
105mg testosterone propionate
105mg nandrolone phenylpropionate

I take it in daily shots intramuscularly in my delts. I tried subconsciously but it hurt at the site most likely due to it being fast esters.
I chose fast esters just in case anything goes wrong with my sciatica I had so that I can stop and clean out quickly. I had bad inflammation all over last year which I believe was from ridiculously high hemoglobin. My spinal nerves are riding the line of being impinged so I like to know if the issue comes back I can go natural like last year to help things improve.

I started my HRT with 70mg Test/35mg NPP and didn’t feel better. I kept upping the dose until I found my sweet spot at 210mg Test/105mg NPP.

 

[pickapeck]

After 50 I felt the cardio fitness drop off every time I went over 100 mg/w of test. At this point in life it's tough to go backwards. 1/2 the time I want to go completely off and just push my cardio vascular system as much as possible to see what I can get back. Any AAS seem to regress the cardio fitness and the longer I'm on the worse it gets as red cells go up, BP goes up and probably some hypertrophy gets aggravated. I go off for 6 weeks and cardio fitness comes back within three weeks. From watching the boards this seems pretty common with guys probably over 40 that still use androgens. Staying on AAS at anything that puts levels above normal range is not going to be healthy. How much of the damage can be resolved is a huge question. Seems some of the literature out there says that AAS induced cardiac hypertrophy is reversible but comes back as soon as the drugs are added back in.

 

[ElTigre]

One big thing to keep in mind is that you can have good blood work but have cardiomyopathy and not even know it. I had it happen to me, I know from experience. Just something to keep in mind. Good blood work is not a sure sign that you are healthy, I can say that for heart at least. Im not sure about other organs.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think about it all the time.

Would you mind sharing where your hematocrit usually sat?

 

[Brickshthouse79]

I can say that when I add anything to my true TRT dose, my blood pressure and resting heart rate increase unless I double my blood pressure meds (Telmisartan and Nebivolol).

The blood work staying good is nice but that's not all that matters.

Per another thread where spoke about nebivolol, I started it recently. Thanks for the tip.

 

[maldorf]

Sorry to bring this up again or here as I know you have a thread from the beginning of your health issues but I ask just to confirm and save a little time reading through all that again

But wasn’t your situation, besides the obvious lifestyle choices, also inherited/genetic in some way? I could be wrong but I recall you saying you not only had high blood pressure and Hematocrit because of the AAS etc but you also had a genetic predisposition to clotting and heart issues?

I do agree with you though that people should do thorough checks at least once in a while... I’m currently going through absolutely everything myself.. Having you around has really taught me a lot.. Health comes 1st.. I’ll never do anything other than TRT again, and that’s if I get scripted, I’m going through those motions now so we’ll see.. Been off Test for 2 months maybe a little more..

Anyway, thanks in advance for the refresh on your situation..

I was having trouble with high hematocrit there about 6 months leading to the blood clot. I did my own phlebotomies at home because my family doctor didn't want to, his answer was "go off steroids". For me at the time I wasn't willing to do that completely. at the time I was only taking about 250 mg/wk test and 100 mg tren I believe, its been about 11 years now so my memory is fading. I got my hemoglobin down to around 15 when I had the clot, so it wasn't the hematocrit directly that caused the clot. I wonder if doing two phlebotomies in close succession didn't trigger clotting factors to increase.

After the heart attack I found that I have a genetic clotting disorder, factor 2. Prothrombin disorder. We have heart disease in the family, but a majority of the world does too. It is the leading killer, so I don't think my family history of heart attack is too much different than most. Both of my grandmothers lived to be 94-96 years old. One of my grandfathers died in either his late 70s or early 80s from parkinsons and my other died around the age 67 of a heart attack. I think he was the one that had this clotting disorder, but no way to know.

Just taking testosterone increases your chances of blood clots. Pretty sure all steroids do, and some may be worse than others. Im not sure about the mechanism behind it, but it is a well known medical fact. Even estrogen increases the chances, and because of that one of my daughters shouldn't take traditional birthcontrol pills because of that.

With me, the blood clot was most probably brought on by the combo of steroid use and my disorder. Nobody else in my family has been documented to have had a clot like me. Both my mother and uncle tested to have it and they are 80 and 82 years old, not a single problem ever in their lives.

About 5 years prior to my heart attack, I was diagnosed with idiopathic cardiomyopathy and had an ejection fraction of only 35%. I went off steroids, completely clean for about 11 months, and it climbed back up to 55% or so. I had zero symptoms. Doc gave me a clean bill of health and then I was stupid and proceeded to go back on steroids again. This experience I had is more than enough to convince me that steroids are bad for the heart, period. I was addicted though and just couldn't stay away.