Blood thinners ?

[derb83]

looking for some direction , so long story short I had a blood clot and was put on blood thinners . Anyone on blood thinners and still use anabolics ? experiences ? Id like to be able to continue but still be safe .

 

[maldorf]

ive been on coumadin now for 11 years since my heart attack from a blood clot. I am also on 100 mg/wk test cyp. No issues for me. What medicine are you on?

 

[derb83]

they put me on heparin for 5 days through iv then switched me to pradaxa . 36 yr old not sure how long i had them i had a clot in my leg and small one in my right lung . they say they will dissolve soon .

 

[maldorf]

They used heparin on me in ICU for about 3 days to try and break up what was left of my clot in the right coronary artery. Im glad you didn't suffer any damage like me.

I dont have any experience with the drug you are taking. im taking the old school warfarin(coumadin). I don't see any complications though, and in fact it would make your cycle safer for you.

I do think however that you need to see this as a serious warning sign. That clot could have very well killed you or destroyed part of you like my heart was for me. Ive been in heart failure now since 2008, my lifespan is seriously diminished. Someday I will need a transplant. if I were you I would lay off everything and call it a day. Do a true TRT dose of 100 mg/wk testosterone if your natural levels don't recover. I know its hard to conceive, but that is what I had to do. Don't wait until disaster strikes you and you have to stop. Do it now.

Your body is sending you a notice now, that it cant handle what you are doing to it.

 

[derb83]

long story short 2 years i was diagnosed with polycythemia vera blood cancer i have to get bi weekly blood drains and take oral chemo every day . I've came completely off cycle for a whole year with no change so jumped back on and actually felt a bit better but this blood clot this has me annoyed . my hematocrit has been as high as 60 . they continually keep me below 42 now at all times

 

[maldorf]

long story short 2 years i was diagnosed with polycythemia vera blood cancer i have to get bi weekly blood drains and take oral chemo every day . I've came completely off cycle for a whole year with no change so jumped back on and actually felt a bit better but this blood clot this has me annoyed . my hematocrit has been as high as 60 . they continually keep me below 42 now at all times

My oncologist/hematologist keeps my hemoglobin at around 15, so that would be about 45 hematocrit. I get blood draws about 3 or 4 times a year now.

Yours are probably monthly then?

Anabolic steroids increase the risk of blood clots, this is well documented in medical research. Testosterone has he most research of course. You can see that in the literature that accompanies each bottle of test I order from the pharmacy. Its online as well.

My advice is to do whatever the docs tell you to do and stay off steroids. I found a decent endocrinologist that takes care of my script because I am now hypogonadal. My total test was around 40 or so for nearly a year. Try to get off everything and see if you recover. I went in after 3 months off, the doc took it from there.

With your genetic trait for clots you are really risking everything by doing more steroids. I have factor 2 clotting disorder I found out, after my clot/heart attack. You have to realize when you are beat here. Don't try and push it anymore, please.

 

[maldorf]

My thread is here if you haven't read it yet:

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...heart-attack-age-38-follow-up-phils-post.html

 

[aphextwin]

My oncologist/hematologist keeps my hemoglobin at around 15, so that would be about 45 hematocrit. I get blood draws about 3 or 4 times a year now.

Yours are probably monthly then?

Anabolic steroids increase the risk of blood clots, this is well documented in medical research. Testosterone has he most research of course. You can see that in the literature that accompanies each bottle of test I order from the pharmacy. Its online as well.

My advice is to do whatever the docs tell you to do and stay off steroids. I found a decent endocrinologist that takes care of my script because I am now hypogonadal. My total test was around 40 or so for nearly a year. Try to get off everything and see if you recover. I went in after 3 months off, the doc took it from there.

With your genetic trait for clots you are really risking everything by doing more steroids. I have factor 2 clotting disorder I found out, after my clot/heart attack. You have to realize when you are beat here. Don't try and push it anymore, please.

So glad you are here to talk about your previous experience. You offer a lot of good insight.

 

[derb83]

i get them 2 times a month , thanks for the insight .

 

[maldorf]

i get them 2 times a month , thanks for the insight .

I was once doing it 1 time a month but after about 1 year of that I was able to cut back to once every 3 months or so. I don't have primary polycythemia like you though. Mine is most probably due to my testosterone use and heart failure.

My doctor did test my blood marrow to be sure I didn't have something similar to what you have. Luckily I didn't. A heart attack is more than I can handle as it is!

I do have some skin cancer now though, but its supposed to be only basal cell. The shit wont heal. I still have open wounds now for over 3 months. Im worried it might be something worse and they screwed up the diagnosis.

 

[MethodAir]

looking for some direction , so long story short I had a blood clot and was put on blood thinners . Anyone on blood thinners and still use anabolics ? experiences ? Id like to be able to continue but still be safe .

Aas can also potentiate warfarin/Coumadin, thereby necessitating dramatically lowering your warfarin dose, to maintain an optimal INR.. This could be a positive as warfarin is effectively rat poison. Consider buying a coaguchek to self monitor.

 

[nothuman]

Do you have a clotting mutation like Factor V or similar?

 

[Stewie]

Do you have a clotting mutation like Factor V or similar?

Polycthemia vera is a hematopoietic stem cell disorder (myeloproliferative) to where all his blood cells increase.

Essentially it's a common theme for clotting in individuals with these types of myeloproliferative disorders to be inflicted with thrombotic events.

 

[Black Beard]

There is a lot of research showing that warfarin/coumadin may increase calcification/atherosclerosis.


So you fix one problem and create or exacerbate another one. Warfarin/coumadin affect vitamin K metabolism and dependent proteins that are involved in the clotting process, but some of these proteins are involved in keeping calcium in the bones and out of the arteries.

 

[derb83]

i was really hoping i could just maintain some test/deca cycles and long as my blood work continues to be ok . either way i am a clot risk i wondering if the 2 long recent trips played a factor in this as well .

 

[buck]

Long term use of Coumadin has been shown to cause arterial calcification. I would be hesitant to use it for any long length of time. And would have to way the risks and give some of the newer anticoagulants a close look.

 

[MethodAir]

Anabolic steroids increase the risk of blood clots, this is well documented in medical research. Testosterone has he most research of course. You can see that in the literature that accompanies each bottle of test I order from the pharmacy. Its online as well.

Anavar and warfarin together can dramatically raise your INR, thereby reducing the risk of a blood clot, and increasing the risk of bleeding. I've seen the addition of 20 mg/day anavar raise the INR from 2.5 to 7.7. I mentioned this before, but I've seen the addition of anavar necessitate dropping the daily warfarin dose from around 6.5 mg to 1.5 mg.

 

[Black Beard]

i was really hoping i could just maintain some test/deca cycles and long as my blood work continues to be ok . either way i am a clot risk i wondering if the 2 long recent trips played a factor in this as well .

A lot of the nasty stuff that steroids can cause or worsen cannot be seen in blood work. Most of it actually (Arterial plaque/calcification, heart structural changes, ejection fraction, stenosis/narrowing, rhythm abnormalities, etc)

Bloodwork can show you acute liver stress/toxicity, suboptimal lipid levels, excessive erythrocytosis (high hct/hgb), and kidney function. That's about it.

 

[MethodAir]

A lot of the nasty stuff that steroids can cause or worsen cannot be seen in blood work. Most of it actually (Arterial plaque/calcification, heart structural changes, ejection fraction, stenosis/narrowing, rhythm abnormalities, etc)

Bloodwork can show you acute liver stress/toxicity, suboptimal lipid levels, excessive erythrocytosis (high hct/hgb), and kidney function. That's about it.

Not entirely true...a high BNP blood reading could suggest coronary artery lesions, in combination with other tests. Sudden spikes in ALT/AST and BUN to CR, can strongly suggest that a patient has become critically hypotensive. However, this probably won't prove that AAS actually caused these lesions, or was the culprit.

 

[Black Beard]

Not entirely true...a high BNP blood reading could suggest coronary artery lesions, in combination with other tests. However, this probably won't prove that AAS actually caused these lesions.

You said it yourself, "could suggest" and you mention one thing it could suggest. High BNP is also used as a test for heart failure.


With imaging and cardiac stress testing, ekg, etc you can directly observe changes in heart function, structure and developing or present pathology.