Question about recent labs on TRT.

[thejefe]

So I got my blood work done yesterday I've been on TRT for about 8 weeks at 100 mg every week test cyp.
Estradiol was 52.7
Testosterone, Serum - 510

I'm def not happy with the 510 test seems low to me would like to be closer to the top range . But my question is my estradiol is high so he has me on today nolvaldex at 10 mg twice a day . Is the nolvadex what would bring me down to normal levels I always took amiridex for this was confused when he I picked up the meds this morning . Anyone else's doctor prescribe this for high E ?

 

[lucius11]

When did you do the blood test, how long after you last pin? If you are at 510 after a week, that would be pretty darn good.

As for the Nolvaldex I don't think it's prescribed all that often as opposed to amiridex. I have never used it, I get arimidex prescribed. You probably already know Nolvaldex is a SERM and it's an anti-estrogen and that most folks use it in PCT. Seems like it should help lower E2 though.

Assuming you are on Test-Cyp, most folks will tell you that you are better off pinning 2x per week (in your case 50mg 2x per week). This would keep the T levels more constant and help with E2. Not sure if that is an option for you.

 

[thejefe]

When did you do the blood test, how long after you last pin? If you are at 510 after a week, that would be pretty darn good.

As for the Nolvaldex I don't think it's prescribed all that often as opposed to amiridex. I have never used it, I get arimidex prescribed. You probably already know Nolvaldex is a SERM and it's an anti-estrogen and that most folks use it in PCT. Seems like it should help lower E2 though.

Assuming you are on Test-Cyp, most folks will tell you that you are better off pinning 2x per week (in your case 50mg 2x per week). This would keep the T levels more constant and help with E2. Not sure if that is an option for you.

I'm sorry to clarify I did bloodwork yesterday after being on TRT for 8 weeks now. My last pin prior to test was 5 days . And no problem doing twice a week injections if it will raise my levels.

 

[Bigunitny]

Nolva will not lower your estrogen . If you want to lower estrogen you need an AI like arimidex (i dont reccomend) or aromasin. If you take aromasin stay very moderate with dosing say 12.5mg twice a week or e3d . W/ aromasin run it for a 3 weeks at that dose and keep taking your test at 200mg and redo blood you will def see improvement as long as you dont deviate from the plan


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[lucius11]

My last pin prior to test was 5 days

That's not so bad. Your peak/average levels are obviously way higher than 500. So if you pinned 50mg 2x per week and tested you levels after 3 days, you might even be in the 700-800 range. That would be pretty good.

If that's not working for you, you would probably need to increase your dose.

 

[lucius11]

Nolva will not lower your estrogen

So there you go, Nolva will not lower E2 ... apparently it blocks the receptors for estrogen. As for why your doc would prescribe it ... I don't know. I would question the logic on this as well.

 

[thejefe]

Nolva will not lower your estrogen . If you want to lower estrogen you need an AI like arimidex (i dont reccomend) or aromasin. If you take aromasin stay very moderate with dosing say 12.5mg twice a week or e3d . W/ aromasin run it for a 3 weeks at that dose and keep taking your test at 200mg and redo blood you will def see improvement as long as you dont deviate from the plan


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Any reason why no Adex and why you perfer aromasin ?

 

[thejefe]

So there you go, Nolva will not lower E2 ... apparently it blocks the receptors for estrogen. As for why your doc would prescribe it ... I don't know. I would question the logic on this as well.

That's what I alway's thought also but I am no doctor either . I go to see him monday I will for sure be asking him and for the time being I'm ordering an AI just not sure which one .

 

[Bigunitny]

Any reason why no Adex and why you perfer aromasin ?

I know aromasin like she is as my lover. And arimidex can allow for estro to rebound after you discontinue use. Arimidex will not be as forgiving on your lipids. All around aromasin has served me well but you must not over use any AI as it will crash ur e2 and that will be brutal on ur gains and ur life so do ur research start slow with aromasin and monitor blood


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[j4ever]

if you start pinning twice a week, that alone can bring down your estro, to want extent, you have to get bloods to see.

 

[lowTdude]

test blasted, need to fake it

thought about creating a new thread but this looks like perfect for what I've got. Well, started this new TRT with my new endo 6 weeks ago. Baselien was TT 336 ng/dl, free t 1.07 ng/dl and e2 24 pg/ml. Took only 100 mg t cyp/wk and after 6 weeks result came TT >1500 (unable to calculate )ng/dl, free t >19 ng/dl (unable to calculate) , e2 24 pg/ml. WTF?? For that lab the max TT range is 867. I was blasting with masteron on the side as well but had no idea they will sky rocket like this crazy. My endo not only freaked out but thought I might be cheating or something. I was on mast before with T , it didnt have that much effect, everything was under control . Being a DHT derivative it should only make some more free t lowering SHBG right? My SHGB is on the lower border line as well. I used the same mast, same vial. CBC, prolactin everything is good.

My concern is how can I lower TT? cutting down mast would help little but not sure how much, he'd be happy seeing me in the range TT<867. One thing I did different tho I shot twice a week 50mg/shot instead of once which my doc dont know. He actually wanted me to have one shot 200mg every 2 week, which sounds so fucking LAME. I told him I will break it down and take 100mg/week and of-course he doesn't know I was loading with mast too. Do you guys think both shot frequency and 400-600mg mast/week raised it so high in short period or just pinning twice/week?

Anyways, can I fake/reduce the TT temporarily before my next lab? I know I might be asking a dumb question but you never know ..there might be something out there. My endo wants me to have another lab done after my next shot and kinda threatened me if that still comes high I should discontinue intra-muscular test fucking kidding me? Need some help guys..I really can't afford to find another doc and need to keep these shit legal for many reasons including my frequent travel and all that.

Another dumb thing I did I took 12 mg asin in the am on the lab day, that fucking dragged E2 to floor and made as much T available as possible. I am thinking to ignore the next lab and stop mast 1 month before the next visit and let e2 grow to consume some of test ..if anyone knows any better or quick options let me know..

 

[Bigunitny]

Interesting


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[chainheart]

been on TRT for about 8 weeks at 100 mg every week test cyp.
Estradiol was 52.7
Testosterone, Serum - 510

I'm def not happy with the 510 test seems low to me would like to be closer to the top range . But my question is my estradiol is high so he has me on today nolvaldex at 10 mg twice a day . Is the nolvadex what would bring me down to normal levels I always took amiridex for this was confused when he I picked up the meds this morning . Anyone else's doctor prescribe this for high E ?

how old are you? how much body fat are you carrying?

pot belly and love handles = more aromatase. may be a cause to why your estrogen level is around 52. the sweet spot is in low twenties. aromatase is responsible for the aromatization (conversion) of androgens into estrogens. aromatase enzyme can be found in many tissues but especially what i mentioned above - adipose tissue. get lean and your testosterone will not convert as easily to estrogen.

estrogen management is a nightmare when body fat is too high. in any case use an AI (anti-aromatase, not a SERM.) SERM's like nolvadex are generally for post cycle therapy and you're doing weekly TRT not a post cycle like bodybuilders. aromasin (exemestane), anastrozole or letrozole are the AI's you would want to use, with aromasin also being my first choice. high or low estrogen can kill libido and give you a crappy feeling. extremely low from too much anti-aromatase can make you weepy and emotional, so try to hit that low twenties sweet spot. i too suggest you switch to two injections weekly rather than one. 50mg on Monday and the other 50mg on Thursday - it will better mimic your body's more even distribution of T.


remember too that many of the symptoms of low thyroid function or hypothyroidism are the same as low testosterone. did your doctor heck your thyroid levels?

Symptoms :
lethargy
low libido
sparse outer eyebrows
feeling cold easily
general hair thinning
dry skin
brain fog
lower T levels
- these can be caused by low iodine levels (not using iodized salt)

 

[chainheart]

thought about creating a new thread but this looks like perfect for what I've got. Well, started this new TRT with my new endo 6 weeks ago. Baselien was TT 336 ng/dl, free t 1.07 ng/dl and e2 24 pg/ml. Took only 100 mg t cyp/wk and after 6 weeks result came TT >1500 (unable to calculate )ng/dl, free t >19 ng/dl (unable to calculate) , e2 24 pg/ml. WTF?? For that lab the max TT range is 867. I was blasting with masteron on the side as well but had no idea they will sky rocket like this crazy. My endo not only freaked out but thought I might be cheating or something. I was on mast before with T , it didnt have that much effect, everything was under control . Being a DHT derivative it should only make some more free t lowering SHBG right? My SHGB is on the lower border line as well. I used the same mast, same vial. CBC, prolactin everything is good.

My concern is how can I lower TT? cutting down mast would help little but not sure how much, he'd be happy seeing me in the range TT<867. One thing I did different tho I shot twice a week 50mg/shot instead of once which my doc dont know. He actually wanted me to have one shot 200mg every 2 week, which sounds so fucking LAME. I told him I will break it down and take 100mg/week and of-course he doesn't know I was loading with mast too. Do you guys think both shot frequency and 400-600mg mast/week raised it so high in short period or just pinning twice/week?

Anyways, can I fake/reduce the TT temporarily before my next lab? I know I might be asking a dumb question but you never know ..there might be something out there. My endo wants me to have another lab done after my next shot and kinda threatened me if that still comes high I should discontinue intra-muscular test fucking kidding me? Need some help guys..I really can't afford to find another doc and need to keep these shit legal for many reasons including my frequent travel and all that.

Another dumb thing I did I took 12 mg asin in the am on the lab day, that fucking dragged E2 to floor and made as much T available as possible. I am thinking to ignore the next lab and stop mast 1 month before the next visit and let e2 grow to consume some of test ..if anyone knows any better or quick options let me know..

you should have started your own thread. you have two choices - discontinue the other aas for three to four weeks and yes try to put off lab work until then. use less TRT then what you were prescribed but your doc is already suspicious which leads to the other choice. why not just use aas from sponsors here at professionalmuscle and forget the doctors. you can get your blood lab work done cheap from several organizations like lef.org:
Male Basic Hormone Panel Blood Test - there's another one that is cheaper but can't remember the link. both use Lab Corp.

 

[chainheart]

got my blood work done yesterday I've been on TRT for about 8 weeks at 100 mg every week test cyp.
Estradiol was 52.7
Testosterone, Serum - 510

I'm def not happy with the 510 test seems low to me would like to be closer to the top range . But my question is my estradiol is high so he has me on today nolvaldex at 10 mg twice a day . Is the nolvadex what would bring me down to normal levels I always took amiridex for this was confused when he I picked up the meds this morning . Anyone else's doctor prescribe this for high E ?

no matter how much testosterone you have, it isn't helping you as it should because too many of your androgen receptors are blocked by estradiol and your free testosterone has no where to go. testosterone can't do you any good if it doesn't have receptors available to activate.

the primary pathway for estradiol production is via the conversion of testosterone by aromatase. this means that the aromatase enzyme binds to testosterone and chemically converts it to estradiol. this conversion is a double whammy. in one process you're losing T and gaining E.

aromatase inhibitors (AI) like aromasin/exemestane, arimidex/anastrozole bind to the aromatase enzyme and prevent it from converting your testosterone to estradiol. they do not work directly on estradiol nor on estrogen receptors. SERM's like Clomid and Nolvadex bind to estrogen receptors. SERM's and AI's are different animals, so don't get them confused.

an AI gives you the double whammy in reverse. it prevents the loss of testosterone to conversion and consequently lowers your estradiol which helps keep your androgen receptors available for testosterone. doctors often forget that E follows T. as your T levels go up, so will your E levels. if you're not doing something to control your E (like taking an AI) then you aren't really going to get anywhere with higher T levels because your higher E levels are just going to cancel out any beneficial effect from the T. your T can't do you any good if all your androgen receptors are bound with estradiol.

those of us with "age related" low T, this is a serious issue because our bodies are naturally trying to keep T low and E high by pumping out aromatase.

If you're younger and have low T for some other reason, aromatase may not be as much of an issue, but it still matters.

fat produces estrogen and aromatase; even in men. If you're carrying extra fat, one of the best things you can do to help your hormone balance is to lose the fat.

In Range does not equal Normal:

one of the problems you're likely to face is the problem of doctors believing that any blood test value that is "in range" is "normal" and therefor fine. it is not that simple.

the range for Quest is 241-847 ng/dL. but those values are derived simply by looking at the values of everyone who has a blood test for testosterone. what's normal for a younger man is to be in the higher end of the range. what's normal for an older man is to be in the lower end of the range. well low T might be "normal" but that doesn't mean it's good! i may be an older guy, but why should i be happy with low T simply because it's normal? ALL men of all ages should be in the higher end of the range if they want to feel good and perform athletically and sexually as men.

same holds true for estradiol. The range is 13-54 pg/mL but "normal" young men are at the low end of the range and that's where you want to be as well. if your T is 250 and your E is 50, you may be "in range" for both values, but you aren't going to feel good or have anywhere near the athletic and sexual performance that would have if your T was 800 and your E was 15.

 

[thejefe]

no matter how much testosterone you have, it isn't helping you as it should because too many of your androgen receptors are blocked by estradiol and your free testosterone has no where to go. testosterone can't do you any good if it doesn't have receptors available to activate.

the primary pathway for estradiol production is via the conversion of testosterone by aromatase. this means that the aromatase enzyme binds to testosterone and chemically converts it to estradiol. this conversion is a double whammy. in one process you're losing T and gaining E.

aromatase inhibitors (AI) like aromasin/exemestane, arimidex/anastrozole bind to the aromatase enzyme and prevent it from converting your testosterone to estradiol. they do not work directly on estradiol nor on estrogen receptors. SERM's like Clomid and Nolvadex bind to estrogen receptors. SERM's and AI's are different animals, so don't get them confused.

an AI gives you the double whammy in reverse. it prevents the loss of testosterone to conversion and consequently lowers your estradiol which helps keep your androgen receptors available for testosterone. doctors often forget that E follows T. as your T levels go up, so will your E levels. if you're not doing something to control your E (like taking an AI) then you aren't really going to get anywhere with higher T levels because your higher E levels are just going to cancel out any beneficial effect from the T. your T can't do you any good if all your androgen receptors are bound with estradiol.

those of us with "age related" low T, this is a serious issue because our bodies are naturally trying to keep T low and E high by pumping out aromatase.

If you're younger and have low T for some other reason, aromatase may not be as much of an issue, but it still matters.

fat produces estrogen and aromatase; even in men. If you're carrying extra fat, one of the best things you can do to help your hormone balance is to lose the fat.

In Range does not equal Normal:

one of the problems you're likely to face is the problem of doctors believing that any blood test value that is "in range" is "normal" and therefor fine. it is not that simple.

the range for Quest is 241-847 ng/dL. but those values are derived simply by looking at the values of everyone who has a blood test for testosterone. what's normal for a younger man is to be in the higher end of the range. what's normal for an older man is to be in the lower end of the range. well low T might be "normal" but that doesn't mean it's good! i may be an older guy, but why should i be happy with low T simply because it's normal? ALL men of all ages should be in the higher end of the range if they want to feel good and perform athletically and sexually as men.

same holds true for estradiol. The range is 13-54 pg/mL but "normal" young men are at the low end of the range and that's where you want to be as well. if your T is 250 and your E is 50, you may be "in range" for both values, but you aren't going to feel good or have anywhere near the athletic and sexual performance that would have if your T was 800 and your E was 15.

Very good write up . I went back to doctor this morning and he has my on armidex at half MG twice a week now and I am also going to shoot test twice a week instead of once a week to keep levels steady .

 

[chgolatin2]

Nolva will not lower your estrogen . If you want to lower estrogen you need an AI like arimidex (i dont reccomend) or aromasin. If you take aromasin stay very moderate with dosing say 12.5mg twice a week or e3d . W/ aromasin run it for a 3 weeks at that dose and keep taking your test at 200mg and redo blood you will def see improvement as long as you dont deviate from the plan


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Letro works wonders for me, and I am prone to estrogen. So Arimidex huh? Interesting I may have to give it a try~

 

[lowTdude]

Letro works wonders for me, and I am prone to estrogen. So Arimidex huh? Interesting I may have to give it a try~

8-10mg aromasin eod works great for me and both my TT and free T stays at its best peak

 

[Sketchy2000]

That's not so bad. Your peak/average levels are obviously way higher than 500. So if you pinned 50mg 2x per week and tested you levels after 3 days, you might even be in the 700-800 range. That would be pretty good.

If that's not working for you, you would probably need to increase your dose.

Agreed. Currently using 100 cypionate weekly. 510 isn't a bad range considering your last pin was almost a week prior to the test. Pinning twice will help keep your levels more stable

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