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Bloodwork/Pressure results... add more?

BoredStiff

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Jan 24, 2019
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5 week in (of 8 week on/8 week off planned cycles)

100mg test E weekly (with HCG)
25mg Tren Ace daily
25mg Mast Prop daily
20mg Carderine daily

Support supps: Niacin 1000mg daily, Hawthorne Berry 600mg, Red Beet Root 1500mg, Celery Seed Extract (forgot the dose) and 200mg Ubiquinol.

Blood Pressure was 113/71
LDL 42
HDL 71

Everything else was normal. Plan was to add 50mg of winstrol the last four weeks, just wanted to see where I was at first.

A. Do you think I can get away with it without messing with my levels too drastically and B. Do you think it's worth it, money-wise? This is just a lifestyle experiment, I want to get as dry as possible year-round on "low" doses, while maintaining good health markers. I'm happy with these numbers, I'm not sure if the winny is going to do anything more than suck more water out though, I do believe it to have some anabolic properties.

If I can pull it off with good bloodwork, the plan would be to add the winstrol and melanotan 2 and basically try and maintain a balance of having that photoshoot ready look and being in good health all year. I'll have to add TUDCA and NAC if I do the winny. My cruises would just be TRT, 100mg of test weekly.
 
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Have you ever used AAS and ancillaries before?
 
I think most guys once they get lean enough, get dry with very little stuff. The winstrols going to crush your HDL; I personally wouldn't do it unless it was for a special event or show. Not year round.

I'd just ride it along without adding orals.

Bloods look surprisingly good on tren. Any in depth look at your lipids? Apo b, lpa? That niacin's doing something for your HDL (the functionality of it though is...up in the air).

I'd be careful with tren long term, even with decent bloods (which is very rare to see on tren). There's more that drug does neurologically that won't show up in bloodwork, and not a risk I'd take long term.



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Have you ever used AAS and ancillaries before?

Yeah but it's been a while. I'm 34, I started bodybuilding around 13-14 and juiced from about 20-23 (a lot of test, deca, wet cycles, just wanted to be big). I stayed natural after that and have just been on TRT for the last 3-4 years as my Test was around 300.

I decided last year that I wanted to get back into gear but with a very different approach, lower doses all-around, different look, all about staying dry and lean now and most importantly much more regular bloodwork and attention to health. That's where the winstrol kind of clashes with my goals, I'm surprised the tren didn't trash my lipids yet, but it's like just adding more fuel to the fire and I don't know if I actually need it or not, it's more of a curiosity itch, I'm being a bit of a guinnea pig right now TBH.
 
I think most guys once they get lean enough, get dry with very little stuff. The winstrols going to crush your HDL; I personally wouldn't do it unless it was for a special event or show. Not year round.

I'd just ride it along without adding orals.

Bloods look surprisingly good on tren. Any in depth look at your lipids? Apo b, lpa? That niacin's doing something for your HDL (the functionality of it though is...up in the air).

I'd be careful with tren long term, even with decent bloods (which is very rare to see on tren). There's more that drug does neurologically that won't show up in bloodwork, and not a risk I'd take long term.



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Appreciate ya. And yeah I'm keeping a very close eye on my mood and thought-patterns. So far, it makes me feel REALLY good, I actually get that Dianabol euphoria and just feel like doing things and being pro-social. I'm naturally a very sluggish person and this gives me a very positive kind of energy. Granted that's now, we'll see what tune I'm singing at the end of next month.
 
If health is a priority my advice would be to stay away from all orals first of all. Second, toss the tren in the trash and switch it out for some primo or eq and keep your test low enough that you dont need an ai. I personally would use a little more test but i dont aromatize bad at all.
 
Those lipids are fantastic! I am jealous. HDL 71! LDL is nice and low too. The LDL is something I achieve but I can never seem to even hope for a HDL that high. Genetics play a huge role I think.

Like the others said, great numbers considering the tren use. The only thing I see that I would do different is I would go to EOD injections instead of ED. Those esters are fine with EOD dosing. Just something to consider. ED is probably more healthy in the long run though I bet.

I too wouldn't worry about using WInstrol at the end because it will mess up your lipids.
 
Everything looks good and your cholesterol values are fantastic. I would recommend getting bloodwork in the last week of your winny usage to see the effect it has on your cholesterol. Everyone is different but I wouldn't be surprised if your HDL was halved but you may be fine. Otherwise I would just stick to your plan and good luck with everything.
 
If health is a priority my advice would be to stay away from all orals first of all. Second, toss the tren in the trash and switch it out for some primo or eq and keep your test low enough that you dont need an ai. I personally would use a little more test but i dont aromatize bad at all.

I wish, even on 100mg of TRT I need 1/4-1/2 of an aromasin daily to feel good. That's one of the main reasons I'm doing things this way, aside from the fact that I love the super dry look, is that I simply can't do aromatizing drugs, I need insane amounts of AI to keep my drive and libido healthy.
 
Those lipids are fantastic! I am jealous. HDL 71! LDL is nice and low too. The LDL is something I achieve but I can never seem to even hope for a HDL that high. Genetics play a huge role I think.

Like the others said, great numbers considering the tren use. The only thing I see that I would do different is I would go to EOD injections instead of ED. Those esters are fine with EOD dosing. Just something to consider. ED is probably more healthy in the long run though I bet.

I too wouldn't worry about using WInstrol at the end because it will mess up your lipids.

Yeah I was pretty shocked. Ironically my cholesterol and blood pressure are actually better on cycle than they were on just TRT, it could be all the ancillaries I added though.

But yeah the more I think about it, I'm ditching the winstrol. I feel it's almost redundant with the masteron and if anything, if I needed it later on, it'd be a safer bet to raise the masteron. This is going to be a year long experiment though, I'm going to stay on this low of a dose for quite a while, by the end of the year I may be at 100mg Mast/100mg Tren EOD but I'm going to raise things very slowly and only if I can keep my lipids and blood pressure in check. My number one priority is ancillaries, more ubiquinol, I want to add garlic and some other things as well as I raise the AAS. I don't think I can do it but if I can get to 350 tren per week and still keep my numbers in check, I'll be ecstatic.

This is doctor monitored, finally found a cool doc, awesome older lady who is totally down with giving me a check-up every month and see how this plays out, so the moment things start getting out of hand I'm backing the dose down.

And I'm going to try the EOD suggestion. I've been afraid of sides increasing but I'm also worried about scar tissue. I'm pinning quads, glutes, triceps, outer shoulder and front delts at the moment.
 
Yeah I was pretty shocked. Ironically my cholesterol and blood pressure are actually better on cycle than they were on just TRT, it could be all the ancillaries I added though.

But yeah the more I think about it, I'm ditching the winstrol. I feel it's almost redundant with the masteron and if anything, if I needed it later on, it'd be a safer bet to raise the masteron. This is going to be a year long experiment though, I'm going to stay on this low of a dose for quite a while, by the end of the year I may be at 100mg Mast/100mg Tren EOD but I'm going to raise things very slowly and only if I can keep my lipids and blood pressure in check. My number one priority is ancillaries, more ubiquinol, I want to add garlic and some other things as well as I raise the AAS. I don't think I can do it but if I can get to 350 tren per week and still keep my numbers in check, I'll be ecstatic.

This is doctor monitored, finally found a cool doc, awesome older lady who is totally down with giving me a check-up every month and see how this plays out, so the moment things start getting out of hand I'm backing the dose down.

And I'm going to try the EOD suggestion. I've been afraid of sides increasing but I'm also worried about scar tissue. I'm pinning quads, glutes, triceps, outer shoulder and front delts at the moment.

Keep in mind that the things you are watching like lipids and blood pressure are very important but not everything you need to be aware of. I would also get a CBC to keep an eye on things like hematocrit/hemoglobin. A lot of us have that buildup too high even on low doses. Before my heart attack my hematocrit got up to about 61 and I was just cruising on 250 mg/wk test and would cycle on about 750. It wasn't until I started cruising that I had that issue. Prior to that I would do a cycle and then get off with a PCT, and during that time my hematocrit never got high.

Other things can happen to your heart metabolically too, I developed cardiomyopathy when I was using steroids. The doses at the time were higher than what you were using. These effects are nearly impossible to pick up on until you start showing symptoms. An echocardiogram will tell the story. Low ejection fraction, low function of the pumping ability of the heart. Me personally, I had a clot in my right coronary artery, 100% blockage that nearly killed me. I got tested after the heart attack, dna test, and found I have a clotting genetic factor. Factor 2 prothrombin disorder. We didn't know it was in the family. So many things you never know.

My point in this post is to just say that you can never say you have eliminated all possibility of disaster and to keep yourself aware of that. Maybe one of these days get an echocardiogram, especially if you start showing symptoms like shortness of breath.

Your doses are certainly low and responsible, but things can still go wrong. One thing that happens over the years as you use, your dose will slowly increase year after year as you find it more difficult to continue growing.
 
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Keep in mind that the things you are watching like lipids and blood pressure are very important but not everything you need to be aware of. I would also get a CBC to keep an eye on things like hematocrit/hemoglobin. A lot of us have that buildup too high even on low doses. Before my heart attack my hematocrit got up to about 61 and I was just cruising on 250 mg/wk test and would cycle on about 750. It wasn't until I started cruising that I had that issue. Prior to that I would do a cycle and then get off with a PCT, and during that time my hematocrit never got high.

Other things can happen to your heart metabolically too, I developed cardiomyopathy when I was using steroids. The doses at the time were higher than what you were using. These effects are nearly impossible to pick up on until you start showing symptoms. An echocardiogram will tell the story. Low ejection fraction, low function of the pumping ability of the heart. Me personally, I had a clot in my right coronary artery, 100% blockage that nearly killed me. I got tested after the heart attack, dna test, and found I have a clotting genetic factor. Factor 2 prothrombin disorder. We didn't know it was in the family. So many things you never know.

My point in this post is to just say that you can never say you have eliminated all possibility of disaster and to keep yourself aware of that. Maybe one of these days get an echocardiogram, especially if you start showing symptoms like shortness of breath.

Your doses are certainly low and responsible, but things can still go wrong. One thing that happens over the years as you use, your dose will slowly increase year after year as you find it more difficult to continue growing.

Yeah i've read about you, I'm really glad you're ok and doing better now. I am donating blood 3-4x a year, I don't think I mentioned that. My RBC/Hematocrit is ok but right at the edge without donating.

I really want to keep the dose to this and just be happy with what results I get and can maintain, I mean I get compliments almost daily, I should be pretty happy with where I'm at and just work on staying lean and maintaining at this point. I think most of us know how much of a psychological game it is of always wanting to add a little more, or an extra compound etc. but I'm really trying to keep that in check.

I'm keeping it at this dose for the blasts all year, not going to increase. The winstrol money will go towards a higher dose ubiquinol, garlic extract and other health supplements I've wanted to add instead.
 
Yeah i've read about you, I'm really glad you're ok and doing better now. I am donating blood 3-4x a year, I don't think I mentioned that. My RBC/Hematocrit is ok but right at the edge without donating.

I really want to keep the dose to this and just be happy with what results I get and can maintain, I mean I get compliments almost daily, I should be pretty happy with where I'm at and just work on staying lean and maintaining at this point. I think most of us know how much of a psychological game it is of always wanting to add a little more, or an extra compound etc. but I'm really trying to keep that in check.

I'm keeping it at this dose for the blasts all year, not going to increase. The winstrol money will go towards a higher dose ubiquinol, garlic extract and other health supplements I've wanted to add instead.

So you are doing these blasts and then going off completely, or are you going on a trt type of thing? Trt to me would be between 100 and 150 mg/wk test only. Going off completely would be safest. With cycles that low dose it shouldn't be murder getting off. Good thing.

The problem you run into after using for more than 5 years is you start to need to take higher doses in order to make more gains. Unless you get to the point where you are happy with what you have and ok with not making much more progress, the temptation to use more is just too great. It is one of those things you cant understand until you are experiencing it.

You sound really responsible though, so I have some faith you will be able to avoid that pitfall. What is your age? Thanks for the well wishes.
 
Holy shit the power of cardarine strikes again! That's some incredible shit right there. If you're not using Cardarine on cycle/blast, you're doing it wrong IMO. My LDL lowered 40 points on trest compared to TRT.


(Note I am not saying to use it year round)
 
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So you are doing these blasts and then going off completely, or are you going on a trt type of thing? Trt to me would be between 100 and 150 mg/wk test only. Going off completely would be safest. With cycles that low dose it shouldn't be murder getting off. Good thing.

The problem you run into after using for more than 5 years is you start to need to take higher doses in order to make more gains. Unless you get to the point where you are happy with what you have and ok with not making much more progress, the temptation to use more is just too great. It is one of those things you cant understand until you are experiencing it.

You sound really responsible though, so I have some faith you will be able to avoid that pitfall. What is your age? Thanks for the well wishes.


Blast 8 weeks, then cruise 8 weeks on 100mg of Test per week (100mg puts me at a little over 800 ng/dl with HCG, so without it should knock me down a bit more), so just enough to put me at a normal 600 range. No cialis, no nothing else. TBH I never thought about completely coming off, but I'll look into it.

I'm 34, I already went through my irresponsible phase in college. I was pinning test, deca and popping DBOL with very little down-time in between. Then I went off and after a few years just felt like crap, got tested and sure enough had very low T (probably caused by me) so I've been on TRT for the past 3 or so years. I've been planning this for over a year, I did want to get back to a slightly more enhanced state but I wanted to do it a lot more responsibly and level-headed this time. I'm finally at a state where I don't need to grow anymore, I don't even want to. I just want to keep my size and add enough to keep me very dry and hard.

But yeah it took me a good 15 years to get to this point where I'm actually no longer tempted to do more and more and to just get rid of that body dysmorphia.
 
Blast 8 weeks, then cruise 8 weeks on 100mg of Test per week (100mg puts me at a little over 800 ng/dl with HCG, so without it should knock me down a bit more), so just enough to put me at a normal 600 range. No cialis, no nothing else. TBH I never thought about completely coming off, but I'll look into it.

I'm 34, I already went through my irresponsible phase in college. I was pinning test, deca and popping DBOL with very little down-time in between. Then I went off and after a few years just felt like crap, got tested and sure enough had very low T (probably caused by me) so I've been on TRT for the past 3 or so years. I've been planning this for over a year, I did want to get back to a slightly more enhanced state but I wanted to do it a lot more responsibly and level-headed this time. I'm finally at a state where I don't need to grow anymore, I don't even want to. I just want to keep my size and add enough to keep me very dry and hard.

But yeah it took me a good 15 years to get to this point where I'm actually no longer tempted to do more and more and to just get rid of that body dysmorphia.

Sounds good. Youre in a good place then, if you can stick to that. Congrats. Too bad about your natural test being trashed. Honestly though, if youre going to be cycling a lot then you are probably going to have to do the trt 100mg/wk otherwise youll suffer. I tried getting off for about 11 months and mine never came back. That was after my heart attack. Im on trt for life now. You have a good plan.
 
The actual number of HDL is meaningless if it's function is useless. All to often we correlate numbers with absolute, in contrast there's fractionals that constitute a bigger picture.

Higher isn't always better as once perceived. There's plenty of well documented literature on this.
 
So my point isn't misunderstood. I'm not suggesting that this individuals lipoproteins are dysfunctional. My suggestions are of the nature to address a misleading concept that the higher the HDL is, the more cardioprotective it is. Which is not necessarily true.
 
So my point isn't misunderstood. I'm not suggesting that this individuals lipoproteins are dysfunctional. My suggestions are of the nature to address a misleading concept that the higher the HDL is, the more cardioprotective it is. Which is not necessarily true.
I wonder if they made any progress with means of testing HDL functionality. This is a two year old publication in the AACC. Apparently they had some success with this, wonder if we are seeing this in any labs around the world.

**broken link removed**

"We established a cell-free assay system to evaluate the capacity of HDL to accept additional cholesterol, which we named cholesterol “uptake capacity,” using fluorescently labeled cholesterol and an anti-apolipoprotein A1 antibody. We quantified cholesterol uptake capacity of apolipoprotein B (apoB)-depleted serum samples from patients with coronary artery disease who had previously undergone revascularization".

Isolates it to apoB using an A1 antibody and then tested those depleted samples for the uptake capacity; which according to the paper correlates to efflux capacity and is easier to measure with a 6 hour testing time. They used people with CAD as samples to notice any significant improvement; the risk factors are already there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
I wonder if they made any progress with means of testing HDL functionality. This is a two year old publication in the AACC. Apparently they had some success with this, wonder if we are seeing this in any labs around the world.

**broken link removed**

"We established a cell-free assay system to evaluate the capacity of HDL to accept additional cholesterol, which we named cholesterol “uptake capacity,” using fluorescently labeled cholesterol and an anti-apolipoprotein A1 antibody. We quantified cholesterol uptake capacity of apolipoprotein B (apoB)-depleted serum samples from patients with coronary artery disease who had previously undergone revascularization".

Isolates it to apoB using an A1 antibody and then tested those depleted samples for the uptake capacity; which according to the paper correlates to efflux capacity and is easier to measure with a 6 hour testing time. They used people with CAD as samples to notice any significant improvement; the risk factors are already there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

HDL-P is a better indicator than HDL-C. Same goes for LDL-P vs LDL-C (C being the number we are used to seeing in lipid panels). LDL-P and ApoB are two very good tests.
 

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