Massive E2 Issues - Any Thoughts Appreciated

swim15 · May 6, 2019

I'll start this by saying that I got diagnosed with ulcerative colitis this past year and have had two flare ups that hospitalized me with the most recent being about 6 weeks ago, a mild flare about 7 months ago, and my first hospitalization about 12 months ago.

The root issue of this is erection problems that have been driving me insane with a new committed relationship a little on the rocks.

I have never once had problems with estrogen and have never needed an AI before until recently. I've tried to narrow down any other factors and pulled out basically all variables possible with other hormones or anything else.

Right now I'm pretty confident that the inflammation from the colitis is causing changes in my E2 conversion because I've been tracking how I'm feeling, mood, energy, sex drive, and erection quality.

Here are some of the trends -

5 months ago:
-150mg TPP/250mg TE every 4 days and have (used that combo before many times with no AI and no problems)
-Began suspecting high E2, tried dosing 0.1mg / 0.2mg / 0.25mg adex on injection days.
-The lower dose didn't do enough and the higher ones crashed my estrogen (always been sensitive to AI's)

As each day went on past injection day I would feel a little better until I felt the best (least high E2 symptoms) on days 5-6 if I skipped my regular day 4 shot.

2 months ago:
-Abandoned what I was doing and went back to 200mg TPP every 3-4 days which has ALWAYS put me in a good spot (no AI)
-Worked for a little while and had good energy/erections but has since declined back to dick not working even though sex drive is still very high

At this point I am going to continue the TPP and try 0.1mg adex twice a week I think but also plan on starting blood work regularly (every day if needed for several weeks) to see if there are any trends.

A major question is whether anyone has had this happen and if anyone with colitis/chrons has had similar issues? At this point I'm not even sure where to start with blood work because I have always felt best with high E2 (the ratio being what I figured was important) so not sure where I should shoot for an actual range or number.

Any suggestions are appreciated and I know there's really no right answer on stuff like this.

Edit: I have been looking for graphs that show E2 level trends after testosterone administration but have been able to find nothing. Assumed there would be some in TRT literature. Would like to see if I could at least get some idea of how they are trending following injections so if anyone knows of anything like this I would love to check it out.

Kaladryn · May 6, 2019

You can't guestimate E2 level based on symptoms, you are dosing the AI on shot day isn't doing anything, your E2 is MUCH higher 4-5 days after a shot than on shot day, especially if you only dose your AI on shot day.

Most people can run test at 500mg for 2-4 years before they start to really notice gyno development from the high E2, but that doesn't mean the high E2 isn't negatively affecting other things, like the liver (cysts), and prostate (enlargement), plus who knows what else.

Oh but E2 will hurt ur gainz so don't use an AI because you might accidently use too much and be too lazy to get bloodwork and not know what...

Oops, I started to lose it there, back under control.

swim15 · May 7, 2019

Thanks for the serious input.

I was trying not to make the post a book long but I have dosed my AI on days in the middle between shots as well and did not help.

As far as what I referred to as “e2 symptoms,” I mean that the day(s) immediately after dosing an AI I feel foggy, lethargic, will sleep extremely poorly, have no sex drive, and be very irritable with almost no ability to get a hard on. As days progress after the AI, those symptoms will slowly fade and I’ll have a day, maybe two, where I’ll feel decent and erection quality is great. Then things will start to fade again except this time sex drive stays up but with extremely poor erection quality which I’ve found to be a trend for myself. No libido with poor/no erection is low estrogen and high libido with poor erection quality is high e2...at least this has matched what is going on pharmaceutically.

I can also gauge e2 to some extent qualitatively when smoking marijuana, combined with those other indicators, because high estrogen levels will essentially get you stronger effects that last much longer (why females are more impacted than males). Whereas, if I’m experiencing ‘low e2 symptoms,’ then I can smoke 2-3x as much and the effects are weaker and wear off significantly faster, within two hours or so probably.

As I said, I have not gotten blood work done yet because the last several labs I’ve had drawn before these issues showed e2 in the 200-300 range and I felt great. So feeling great at 4-6x the top end of the range for males in the past doesn’t lead me to an effective gauge for where e2 should currently be. I feel the root cause here, based on the symptoms, is an increase in e2 conversion and a decrease in the test/estrogen ratio seeing as dropping my dose significantly has not changed how I feel (minus about a 2 week period following the dose drop which I forgot to mention before). Only problem is I haven’t been able to seem to find an effective AI dosage after months and months of playing with it.

I don’t care about gains at this point I just want some of my life back.

pimpman · May 7, 2019

So you saying you having all these yo yo effects and instead of getting blood work. Your guessing by how you feel and how your dick works. And playing with AI here and there. Even though you say you have never need them before? And from no blood work to going to the extreme of getting blood work every day if needed. You are all over the place bro. Blood work every day is not going to fix the problem. Not to mention it's an over kill I have never heard of such thing of getting blood work every day.

And your estimating your E2 based on how high or how long the high of pot last? That's insane. Plus the fact that your comparing the high being bigger for females because they higher estro than man? Now that's some crazy shit. So I guess alcohol gets females drunk faster and a lot more than male because of estro too right.

I'm hoping this is a trol thread. Because if your serious you need more help than professional muscle

bigguy35 · May 7, 2019

Your marijuana correlation with estrogen might be the most ludicrous comment ever.

Get blood work and quit giving your self all These uneducated guesses.

brutus69 · May 7, 2019

pimpman said:
So you saying you having all these yo yo effects and instead of getting blood work. Your guessing by how you feel and how your dick works. And playing with AI here and there. Even though you say you have never need them before? And from no blood work to going to the extreme of getting blood work every day if needed. You are all over the place bro. Blood work every day is not going to fix the problem. Not to mention it's an over kill I have never heard of such thing of getting blood work every day.

And your estimating your E2 based on how high or how long the high of pot last? That's insane. Plus the fact that your comparing the high being bigger for females because they higher estro than man? Now that's some crazy shit. So I guess alcohol gets females drunk faster and a lot more than male because of estro too right.

I'm hoping this is a trol thread. Because if your serious you need more help than professional muscle

there's alot of these threads nowadays, notice that? i start to reply, then i think....troll thread.
no way can people be this ignorant. or can they?
maybe he's a youngster. education cures ignorance.

pimpman · May 7, 2019

brutus69 said:
there's alot of these threads nowadays, notice that? i start to reply, then i think....troll thread.

no way can people be this ignorant. or can they?

maybe he's a youngster. education cures ignorance.

Man that's exactly what I was saying to myself as I was reading his thread. Like WHAT are you really that ignorant? But then again there are some that unfortunately are.

Then when I read the Marijuana part I was like has to be a troll and/or a very guy kid

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pimpman · May 7, 2019

bigguy35 said:
Your marijuana correlation with estrogen might be the most ludicrous comment ever.

Get blood work and quit giving your self all These uneducated guesses.

I couldn't agree more. I've heard enough once I got to the Marijuana part

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Kaladryn · May 7, 2019

I think all these threads are coming from one place: boobies.

This is the thing about the human species: one of the sexes makes clones of itself and it also makes a variant for utilitarian purposes (protection, dangerous labor, etc). This variant has one (grossly) enlarged sexual organ and two underdeveloped sexual organs. When this variant has too much estradiol, they start to turn into the original clone, the overdeveloped sexual organ starts to pull up into the body and the underdeveloped ones start to grow.

This causes the variant clone a lot of anxiety.

Elvia1023 · May 7, 2019

swim15 said:
At this point I am going to continue the TPP and try 0.1mg adex twice a week I think but also plan on starting blood work regularly (every day if needed for several weeks) to see if there are any trends.

The above illustrates what is wrong with so many people. It seems to be especially common in newer/younger members. This is obviously not in relation to the OP but I have noticed a lot of the newer members are well just idiots. Overcomplicating every aspect of bodybuilding whilst not having the basics covered so they go around and around year after year whilst still looking for that magical pill. I am starting to get fed up of the training threads for example from guys who think if they someone find that magical sequence of exercises they will mutate into a top bodybuilder. Same for the drug stack threads. Plus all the preacher health guys who have never even built a solid physique

Regardless of knowledge level you can't really guess your blood work. You assume far too much considering you have never had it done. Plus your remedy for this is to get bloodwork done every single day for weeks is needed which you obviously won't do. Granted an interesting experiment but totally not needed. Another example of overcomplicating things. Why don't you just get blood work done and see where you are at. If your estrogen is very high you use a small daily dose of AI and then after 1 month come back and retest and see how you are and adjust accordingly.

OP sorry for the rant. Not in relation to you but an accumulation of multiple threads/posts over months.

swim15 · May 7, 2019

pimpman said:
So you saying you having all these yo yo effects and instead of getting blood work. Your guessing by how you feel and how your dick works. And playing with AI here and there. Even though you say you have never need them before? And from no blood work to going to the extreme of getting blood work every day if needed. You are all over the place bro. Blood work every day is not going to fix the problem. Not to mention it's an over kill I have never heard of such thing of getting blood work every day.

And your estimating your E2 based on how high or how long the high of pot last? That's insane. Plus the fact that your comparing the high being bigger for females because they higher estro than man? Now that's some crazy shit. So I guess alcohol gets females drunk faster and a lot more than male because of estro too right.

I'm hoping this is a trol thread. Because if your serious you need more help than professional muscle

No, I’m saying that I’ve been blasting and cruising for 6 years, have not ever needed an AI, and when I attempted to use them at any dose I would feel like trash very quickly.

Then, at some point in the past year, things changed. I think we can all agree that on my original dose of 150TP/250TE roughly twice weekly with no AI, I’m probably not going to have low estrogen levels? If you disagree then let me know. Therefore I thought it reasonable to try an AI at a low dose and increase slowly, if needed, to achieve desirable effects. This has not consistently worked so far although did work to a very small degree.

Now, back to my last post. My past blood work has always had very high E2 readings but that is where I always felt comfortable which made me a proponent of the test:estrogen ratio theory on blood work rather than keeping estrogen in X range with test well above physiological levels. I’ve spoken to a number of doctors specializing in HRT about this, because adding an AI always made me feel like garbage, and their recommendation was not to mess with it to try to achieve a certain E2 number if I felt good already.

So, back to my last post. With my history of E2 levels in the past then what would getting blood work done likely tell me? Hypothetical question as I’m going to get get some drawn tomorrow but if I have always felt good with it out of range then I’m not sure what conclusions I can draw from labs unless it’s astronomically low which I don’t think is the case on ~400mg/wk and no AI. I’m expecting it to be high but, again, adding an AI wasn’t too helpful.

I made the comment about daily blood work (maybe a little overkill although it is free for me so why not) due to the above discussion about my previous blood work history as I don’t think the actual number is going to tell me a lot necessarily if it is out of range so my next best idea would be to try to find a trend in how the levels are fluctuating on the days things are good and the days things aren’t not good. Someone tell me if they think that is unreasonable based on the info already presented.

Lastly, I wasn’t basing anything concrete on the correlation between marijuana and E2 levels but there is literature to support that as estradiol effects canabanoid receptors. It was merely an observation to support what I already suspected based on the other symptoms. Didn’t feel like taking time to dig up all the studies on my computer but a few are listed below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22728714/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22681685/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8289577/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181026102627.htm

Smack · May 7, 2019

Blood work would be best.

Anyway, Adex half life is around 45 hours on average so it'll build up in your system. Bumping up doses would crash your E2. Stick with your dose for two weeks before adjusting.

I dont know why you guys are giving him so much flack. He said he realized he should be getting blood work and is going to...

fitzchivalry · May 8, 2019

Smack said:
Blood work would be best.

I dont know why you guys are giving him so much flack. He said he realized he should be getting blood work and is going to...

Yep, seems like a bunch of cranky guys flying off the handle. From what I've seen of his posts Swim is not dumb and if he made a questionable post I am sure they have plenty in their post history as well. Not really seeing the reason for such a reaction.

Elvia1023 · May 8, 2019

I reread my post earlier and realized I come across as rude so pm'ed the guy. I shouldn't have even quoted him. I only quoted him because that one sentence stood out as overcomplicating things. I didn't want to start a new thread but been thinking those things for awhile so I apologize for the rant. As I mentioned above nothing to do with the OP. Although my advice to him still stands and it's the obvious thing to do which from his post he had planned anyway.

swim15 · May 8, 2019

Elvia1023 said:
I reread my post earlier and realized I come across as rude so pm'ed the guy. I shouldn't have even quoted him. I only quoted him because that one sentence stood out as overcomplicating things. I didn't want to start a new thread but been thinking those things for awhile so I apologize for the rant. As I mentioned above nothing to do with the OP. Although my advice to him still stands and it's the obvious thing to do which from his post he had planned anyway.

No worries dude, didn’t take anything personally. I should have included more info in my first post probably but was trying to keep it to less than a massive book.

My whole idea behind blood work every day or every few days is only because my blood work in the past that showed (very) high estrogen didn’t correlate to any symptoms or problems. So, now, I’d expect it to be a little high but not sure what that would tell me. Hence the more frequent bloods being a possibility (I get them for free) and logging how I’m feeling/functioning that specific day to find a trend.

Either way I probably shouldn’t have even posted without some numbers but I’m getting the labs drawn in the morning. Will post those up and go from there.

pimpman · May 8, 2019

swim15 said:
No, I’m saying that I’ve been blasting and cruising for 6 years, have not ever needed an AI, and when I attempted to use them at any dose I would feel like trash very quickly.

Then, at some point in the past year, things changed. I think we can all agree that on my original dose of 150TP/250TE roughly twice weekly with no AI, I’m probably not going to have low estrogen levels? If you disagree then let me know. Therefore I thought it reasonable to try an AI at a low dose and increase slowly, if needed, to achieve desirable effects. This has not consistently worked so far although did work to a very small degree.

Now, back to my last post. My past blood work has always had very high E2 readings but that is where I always felt comfortable which made me a proponent of the test:estrogen ratio theory on blood work rather than keeping estrogen in X range with test well above physiological levels. I’ve spoken to a number of doctors specializing in HRT about this, because adding an AI always made me feel like garbage, and their recommendation was not to mess with it to try to achieve a certain E2 number if I felt good already.

So, back to my last post. With my history of E2 levels in the past then what would getting blood work done likely tell me? Hypothetical question as I’m going to get get some drawn tomorrow but if I have always felt good with it out of range then I’m not sure what conclusions I can draw from labs unless it’s astronomically low which I don’t think is the case on ~400mg/wk and no AI. I’m expecting it to be high but, again, adding an AI wasn’t too helpful.

I made the comment about daily blood work (maybe a little overkill although it is free for me so why not) due to the above discussion about my previous blood work history as I don’t think the actual number is going to tell me a lot necessarily if it is out of range so my next best idea would be to try to find a trend in how the levels are fluctuating on the days things are good and the days things aren’t not good. Someone tell me if they think that is unreasonable based on the info already presented.

Lastly, I wasn’t basing anything concrete on the correlation between marijuana and E2 levels but there is literature to support that as estradiol effects canabanoid receptors. It was merely an observation to support what I already suspected based on the other symptoms. Didn’t feel like taking time to dig up all the studies on my computer but a few are listed below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22728714/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22681685/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8289577/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181026102627.htm

Ok brother I'm not trying to be hard on you. I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. For instance.

You said you been blasting and cruising for 6 years and never have needed an AI and when you attempted to use them. You feel like trash.

If you never needed them why would you do them then?

Also you say you get free blood work. Not that I care to be nosy. But if you refer free as to having health insurance. Your insurance is not going to cover blood work every day. Just saying.

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swim15 · May 8, 2019

pimpman said:
Ok brother I'm not trying to be hard on you. I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. For instance.

You said you been blasting and cruising for 6 years and never have needed an AI and when you attempted to use them. You feel like trash.

If you never needed them why would you do them then?

Also you say you get free blood work. Not that I care to be nosy. But if you refer free as to having health insurance. Your insurance is not going to cover blood work every day. Just saying.

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No worries man, I’m asking for help/input so don’t care to explain anything.

As far as me using AI’s, if you’re referring to how I knew I felt like trash if I used them but didn’t need them, I do what a lot of guys do when they are new to AAS and just used one from the get-go. Generally if my dose was over 500mg although there were a handful of times, maybe 3-4 in that 6 year period, where I had random flares for no real explainable reason other than something changing endogenously. Not too crazy since our internal environments do change over time. Also used them at the end of preps but haven’t competed in a few years. Have since learned my body better and done some research.

As far as blood work, a very close family friend owns a practice where I live and as long as they bill the blood work as preventative instead of diagnostic then it’s fully covered because I’ve reached my out of pocket maximum for the year. Not entirely wrong since all of it is due to colitis and we’re watching stuff closely to prevent more problems or another hospitalization...ethical debate I don’t really care about atm lol. Everything has been looking good with that lately at least though.

Admittedly thread title does sound a little troll-y. More so meant atypical problems in general that don’t correlate to my history. Sorry, part of this has caused some unnecessary stress on top of relationship and grad school stress.

pimpman · May 8, 2019

swim15 said:
No worries man, I’m asking for help/input so don’t care to explain anything.

As far as me using AI’s, if you’re referring to how I knew I felt like trash if I used them but didn’t need them, I do what a lot of guys do when they are new to AAS and just used one from the get-go. Generally if my dose was over 500mg although there were a handful of times, maybe 3-4 in that 6 year period, where I had random flares for no real explainable reason other than something changing endogenously. Not too crazy since our internal environments do change over time. Also used them at the end of preps but haven’t competed in a few years. Have since learned my body better and done some research.

As far as blood work, a very close family friend owns a practice where I live and as long as they bill the blood work as preventative instead of diagnostic then it’s fully covered because I’ve reached my out of pocket maximum for the year. Not entirely wrong since all of it is due to colitis and we’re watching stuff closely to prevent more problems or another hospitalization...ethical debate I don’t really care about atm lol. Everything has been looking good with that lately at least though.

Admittedly thread title does sound a little troll-y. More so meant atypical problems in general that don’t correlate to my history. Sorry, part of this has caused some unnecessary stress on top of relationship and grad school stress.

Now I understand you. Sorry to hear about your colitis problem. That can be a bummer to deal with. I hope you get better soon.
Let us know your lab results to see we're your estrogen is at.

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Kaladryn · May 8, 2019

AIs tend to cause gastrointestinal issues, it is perhaps their most common side effect. I never had any problems with arimidex until about 10 years of using it, it started to give me diarrhea, even at very low doses. Aromasin and letro can cause similar issues, I would be concerned if I had colitis (my ex has it so I know a bit about it). Have you looked into BPC-157?

swim15 · Jun 22, 2019

Kaladryn said:
AIs tend to cause gastrointestinal issues, it is perhaps their most common side effect. I never had any problems with arimidex until about 10 years of using it, it started to give me diarrhea, even at very low doses. Aromasin and letro can cause similar issues, I would be concerned if I had colitis (my ex has it so I know a bit about it). Have you looked into BPC-157?

Thanks for the input - the colitis has been a hell of a learning experience the past year. I have looked at BPC and used it before although not specifically for the colitis. Right now it’s controlled but was going to talk to my gastro (abnormally smart/knowledgeable guy) about it if I ever have a flare again. Will probably just keep some on hand now that I think about it