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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:06 PM
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Joltan, on your quote from me, that was myself taking 25mg mk677 in the am for 2 years straight, with 5 months off it each year.

Only used the primobolan at 700mg a week (100mg a day) for a 12 week cycle, phenomenal stuff by the way. You can use it 2 cycles a year at 3 months long, or even take for 2 months on, with 2 months off, repeat, etc.

In three months time, on the palumbo ketogenic diet, getting 240g of protein per day, with fasting for 16 hours, with running during the fast for 20 minutes on non-workout days, with working out x 3 times a week, while on primo for 12 weeks...

...my fat percentage went down from 15% body fat to 12% body fat, loosing 0.2 percent body fat per day, as the scale I used was highly accurate (RENPHO electronic body fat scale/muscle mass scale). I tracked it daily every morning after waking up. It sends all the data to your phone, so you can store it too.

Primo does not affect your sleep, get great sleep on it. Yes, Brickshthouse 79, that must have been something other than Primo you had there.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:44 PM
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Typo there, meant to say loosing 0.2% body fat on many of the running days while on the fast. The fat loss was slower or stagnant on workout days. I found I could not even tolerate 1/4 cup of oatmeal pre-workout as it would stall my gains...I had to rely on my conversion of protein to glucose to fuel my workouts. This was 5g max per hour or around 60g of glucose a day from the protein. This helped with glycogen uptake by muscles, fuel for workouts, enhancing recovery, etc. Workouts did not suffer from the lack of starchy carbs pre-workouts to my amazement. That would have been a TKD or targetted keto diet, but I kept it strict with no oatmeal pre-workout.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 01:07 AM
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What's really freaky on 700mg of primo a week, was that I was still adding lbs to my bench, leg press, leg curl, leg extension, and everything else while still in a calorie deficit. In other words, making gains while rapidly loosing fat weekly. It's very important to get around 240g of protein a day (palumbo keto diet) for a 200lb person like myself. High protein will keep you gaining, primo needs something to work with.

It will boggle your mind. Perhaps my body was using some of my fat storage for extra calories to help build more muscle while loosing the fat, that's all I can think of in a calorie deficit. Primo will help you hold on to your hard earned muscle while your body will prefer to burn the fat, it has great nitrogen retention, and mk677 has great nitrogen retention as well, double edge sword with both combined.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:05 AM
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Just a quick note: as 100mg a day injections to reach 700mg a week primo can start to become wearisome, backfilling an insulin syringe makes it nearly effortless. Draw with 21 gauge, take plunger out of insulin syringe, hold end of plunger with hand while back fill insulin syringe from the drawing 21 gauge needle. Then shoot with the 29 to 30gauge filled insulin syringe into deltoid.

After 2 weeks, weights in the weight room start to become more effortless, strength goes up, stamina is improved, and bloodpressure remains normal, unlike what using higher doses of test or deca, or dianabol can cause. The normal blood pressure due to no water retention is quite nice.

For example, even in the 1800 calorie a day deficit, on 700mg a week primo, by week 12 days in...this is how strength went up in my journal:

Bench press up from 9 reps with 78lbs each side up to 11 reps with 80 each side, 2nd set up fom 6 reps of 78lbs each side up to 10 reps with 80 each side

2-arm dumb-bell extension behind neck for triceps up from 7 reps for 75lbs to 7 reps with 80lbs, 2nd set up from 5 reps with 75lbs to 7 reps with 80lbs

Lying tricep dumbbell extension behind head up from 5 reps of 43lbs each side to 8 reps with 40lbs each side,

etc...
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tregar View Post
Just a quick note: as 100mg a day injections to reach 700mg a week primo can start to become wearisome, backfilling an insulin syringe makes it nearly effortless. Draw with 21 gauge, take plunger out of insulin syringe, hold end of plunger with hand while back fill insulin syringe from the drawing 21 gauge needle. Then shoot with the 29 to 30gauge filled insulin syringe into deltoid.

After 2 weeks, weights in the weight room start to become more effortless, strength goes up, stamina is improved, and bloodpressure remains normal, unlike what using higher doses of test or deca, or dianabol can cause. The normal blood pressure due to no water retention is quite nice.

For example, even in the 1800 calorie a day deficit, on 700mg a week primo, by week 12 days in...this is how strength went up in my journal:

Bench press up from 9 reps with 78lbs each side up to 11 reps with 80 each side, 2nd set up fom 6 reps of 78lbs each side up to 10 reps with 80 each side

2-arm dumb-bell extension behind neck for triceps up from 7 reps for 75lbs to 7 reps with 80lbs, 2nd set up from 5 reps with 75lbs to 7 reps with 80lbs

Lying tricep dumbbell extension behind head up from 5 reps of 43lbs each side to 8 reps with 40lbs each side,

etc...
How much you weigh that you are only eating this much calories? Geez, I am dropping body fat at 3000 Calories and not Keto Diet either.
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Last edited by pesty4077; 05-16-2019 at 01:32 AM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:58 AM
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How much you weigh that you are only eating this much calories? Geez, I am dropping body fat at 3000 Calories and not Keto Diet either.
Damn. You're a lucky SOB
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2019, 03:09 AM
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You guys have to remember that I am 49 year old bodybuilder, back in my early days I could easily do the same at 3000 calories and no keto diet, after age 35 things change, my insulin sensitivity decreased as I got older. Extreme measures on diet and cardio just to do what I could do in my 20's with no cardio and no diet. Yes, it sucks. My weight is 210 at 15% body fat, it took me 3 months on keto diet + cardio during 16 hour fast daily +1800 cals a day to get down from 15% to 12% body fat. In my 30's I was at 12% body fat no diet, no cardio. Less than 10% bodyfat in my 20's, again no cardio, no special diet. Good to hear pesty4077, keep up the good work.

Last edited by tregar; 05-16-2019 at 03:19 AM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2019, 03:18 AM
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You guys have to remember that I am 49 year old bodybuidler, back in my 20's I could easily do the same at 3000 calories and no keto diet, after age 35 things change, my insulin sensitivity decreased as I got older. Extreme measures on diet and cardio just to do what I could do in my 20's with no cardio and no diet. Yes, it sucks.
I am 59. If you ate proper all year, you wouldn't need to be starving yourself now.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2019, 03:46 AM
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Damn. You're a lucky SOB
Luck has nothing to do with it. It is consistent proper eating all year. I eat cheat meals just like everyone else. I just don't let myself get extremely out of shape. At 59, my metabolism is a lot slower then when I was in my 20s. I also know the right combination of foods to eat and don't take excessive drugs to compensate.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:41 AM
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Luck has nothing to do with it. It is consistent proper eating all year. I eat cheat meals just like everyone else. I just don't let myself get extremely out of shape. At 59, my metabolism is a lot slower then when I was in my 20s. I also know the right combination of foods to eat and don't take excessive drugs to compensate.
Lol. Yes, some people are "lucky" or just more so than others when it comes to metabolism - and all things BB related.

Even at 20 years old while dieting under Shelby I wasnt dropping weight until we got under 2200 cals per day with an hour of fasted cardio every morning... I was natural but the point remains. Nothing to do with your work ethic.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:28 PM
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I stay on the ketogenic diet year-round, but in order to drop more fat quickly is when I'll stray into the 1800 cal diet a day with fasting and cardio during the fast. The diet gives you a peace of mind and steady energy all day, best I've ever felt, no ups and downs, very enjoyable, calm as a clam, what sucks is when I'll eye a bowl of ice cream at times and get a craving, but I work in a cheat meal every few weeks to help with this. I'm able to maintain the new body fat level by sticking with the diet everyday.

Even with no carbs pre-workout, the workouts do not suffer, and are just as intense. The glucose from the turnover of some of the protein daily (5g max per hour) helps with fuel for workout, glycogen uptake into muscles, recuperation, etc. I love the diet, many other bodybuilders who are ketogenic for life. The Atkins diet never became super popular because after the induction phase, it attempted to work in "good carbs", but that's where the fat weight gain would start up again, and people would loose faith at that point. It would have been fine by keeping people in the beginning phase which was very low carb. The Palumbo keto diet is better for bodybuilders than Atkins as it keeps protein very high, and fats at only 0.5g per lb of bodyweight, works extremely well for this person.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2019, 02:27 AM
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Lol. Yes, some people are "lucky" or just more so than others when it comes to metabolism - and all things BB related.

Even at 20 years old while dieting under Shelby I wasnt dropping weight until we got under 2200 cals per day with an hour of fasted cardio every morning... I was natural but the point remains. Nothing to do with your work ethic.
Yep, that was a dismissive reply and a quick jump to a conclusion on his end. There are guys in great shape on here (not trying to be combative to pesty) that eat 2200-2500 cals a day for maintenance that are larger then he is.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2019, 02:58 AM
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Yep, that was a dismissive reply and a quick jump to a conclusion on his end. There are guys in great shape on here (not trying to be combative to pesty) that eat 2200-2500 cals a day for maintenance that are larger then he is.
You think I have a great metabolism at 59? I guarantee my metabolism is slower than guys in their 20s-40s. The problem with lots of guys is they don't do things consistently. I am surprised with all the drugs people take now a days that would need to starve themselves to get their Body fat down.

I have no problem with Keto diets for others, just not for me or people I would train. The OP said he sees ice cream and gets cravings. At 1800 calories, I be craving too. When you starve your body, it will starts craving. I can see ice cream and other things and never get cravings, but I don't starve my body either. Not saying I don't eat these things once in a great while.

My approach has always been one of consistency and a balanced Diet. It also goes for everything in my life, a balanced approach and consistency. I can also know what I eat everyday too. I keep journals, so I don't guess at things. This would help many people too.

I approach prepping for shows like this too. I tell guys in the off season, to keep their Body weight with in 20 pounds for shows. This way, they don't have to starve over a 16 week prep. I am not training Austen for a show this year, Andrew Vu is, but off season I worked with him to eat better and now it shows this year. He didn't get fat in off season. Too me a bodybuilder is one that looks like a bodybuilder all the time. Not get big and fat when your not doing a show.

I understand some people have slower metabolisms too, but if they stay in better shape all year, they wouldn't need to struggle or do extreme diets to be a great shape. CONSISTENCY is what makes people stand out over others.

And opinions are good to have, it makes this board what it is. I don't see your post as combative, I just believe in something different then you through my experiences.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:34 PM
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You don t need 700mg week to ve results. With great primo 400mg is enough to build solid mass for most people
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:45 PM
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2 Sides to Every Coin!
For 8yrs I have tried everything and Ate Everything. Still Max out at 265lbs @ 10% and end Up back at 250lbs % 6%.
My Fast metabolism hinders my Gains! The Guys that get Fat easy have it Made'....
Not that I really want to Be You.

Last edited by concreter; 05-17-2019 at 10:49 PM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:15 PM
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2 Sides to Every Coin!
For 8yrs I have tried everything and Ate Everything. Still Max out at 265lbs @ 10% and end Up back at 250lbs % 6%.
My Fast metabolism hinders my Gains! The Guys that get Fat easy have it Made'....
Not that I really want to Be You.
Your metabolism type usually does very well with a higher fat diet.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2019, 02:27 AM
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For anyone that has used both the oral and injectable enanthate forms, what dose of one form roughly to correlates to the other? For example, is 400mg of the injectable approximately equal to 800mg of the oral acetate form? Or is the 50% figure way off?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2019, 03:34 AM
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Tregar I mean no disrespect but from the posts I have seen of yours I imagine you to be one to completely overcomplicate things. Can you post a pic of yourself? Do you look good, amazing, ok, incredible etc? I am curious with the amount of thought gone into everything just how you look.

I think it's great you have researched extensively and the more knowledge the better. But I also think you may have gotten similar results from any aas injectable at 700mg per week. Or have you used everything and been consistent for years and it's just primo blew everything out of the water?

You mention how all lifts increased even on a calorie deficit for example. However your past is vital in order to draw conclusions from your statement. Meaning if a guy is a bit out of shape and doesn't run much gear adds in 700mg primo but starts training and dieting much harder it should be no surprise. Now someone who has been training brutally hard and taking gear leading up to taking primo may have completely different results. I am not stating primo isn't great as it can be (especially results to side effect ratio) but I personally prefer other things when it comes to results (bulking or cutting).
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by concreter View Post
2 Sides to Every Coin!
For 8yrs I have tried everything and Ate Everything. Still Max out at 265lbs @ 10% and end Up back at 250lbs % 6%.
My Fast metabolism hinders my Gains! The Guys that get Fat easy have it Made'....
Not that I really want to Be You.
Your job is extremely physical and takes place (mostly) in the hot sun.

Your body burns a significant amount of calories just in your normal daily functions.

You need more 10K calorie days for you to put on mass.

Try eating about 60-80 chicken McNuggets a day from McDonalds, in addition to your normal daily diet.

Do this 3 days a week and see what happens.

A 20 piece should run you just under six dollars; a 40 piece should be just under 11 dollars.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:47 PM
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Thanks for comments Elvia1023.

It were these studies on intermittent fasting combined with cardio that peaked my interest, and when I followed the same program on a keto diet, it worked for me for rapidly loosing fat without loosing any muscle mass:

"Rapid weight loss without losing muscle: combine intermittent fasting and cardio": https://www.ergo-log.com/rapid-weigh...nd-cardio.html

"Experienced strength athletes lose fat by intermittent fasting, not muscle mass or strength:" https://ergo-log.com/strength-athlet...-strength.html

Deca inhibits nitrous oxide: https://www.musculardevelopment.com/...l#.XOFOUKR7nIU

Tren even in the lowest doses caused waking up in the middle of the night, terrible sleep, higher test doses & deca caused blood pressure rise from my normal 120/70, same with d-ball, primo none of the side effects of the above & no bloating. Also concerned about how deca inhibits nitrous oxide and damages blood vessels from a study I saw at ergo log.

I like to stay on a keto diet as there is zero bloat when using mk677, which increases my igf-1 levels to equivalent of 3.4iu of pharm grade HGH from China, 372 igf-1 for 1st 2 week, then levels out to 327 ng/ml for the 6 months after that. Then I go off it for 5 months. Able to keep the fat off with the keto diet year round, and workouts are just as intense, keep my protein at 240g a day as it is a modified keto diet: Palumbo keto diet. Been working out since my early 20's, age is 49.
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