Targeting a muscle by ceasing to try to isolate it

[Biggerp73]

So my chest has always been a weak point, and especially in regards pressing movements I have always struggled to isolate the chest and keep the shoulders out of the movement. I would focus so hard on keeping the shoulders out, and I would never succeed. Well a few weeks ago I decided to try a new variation on shoulder press, in an attempt to do the movement with a bit more safety/stability in the shoulder joint and rotator cuff. What I did was basically start doing very steep incline dunbell presses, and what I found is that while my front delts definitely get hit, my upper chest really gets blasted as well. Now I've realized that I can do flat bench press and, rather than focus on keeping the shoulders out of the movement, I just focus on doing as much as I can with my chest and don't worry about how much my shoulders help out. As a result my pecs are firing much stronger than they have before, starting to fill out nicely, and strength is climbing. I guess this is another example of how overthinking and trying to isolate too much can actually be detrimental, whereas just focusing on the basics of the movement and not worrying about getting a little help from accessory muscles is a much better option.

 

[Elvia1023]

Yeah sometimes if you pick an effective pressing movement and just go crazy with it so you need to put everything into that movement then all muscles (delt, chest, tri-ceps etc) will be recruited to get the weight moving. If you have a spotter or use plate loaded machines you can go to complete failure so everything is recruited to assist oneanother. Although there are definitely ways to isolate the chest optimally but they will be different for everyone. I always try to keep my training simple but I realize (especially when showing someone) just how detailed it can be. I (like everyone) have all these little things I do during certain sets to try to connect to my chest as much as possible.

When you write about isolating the chest in the past what do you mean exactly? For me I generally keep my shoulders down, elbows at approx 45 degrees and I press "low" and push through my chest. With barbells I will also visualize bending the bar as I press and with db's I like to bring them together slightly as I press upwards. Although I set up machines presses (and barbells) at different angles all the time. I also like sitting down very low (and normal) in certain machine press seats so it's more like a decline press. If guys have an actual decline press machine then great. I think cable presses can be great for the chest as well. I think once you get that connection anything can be done with good effect. It's awkward online but me writing "pushing through the chest" can be shown in secs in real life and it's something I see many don't do.

Today I trained in a gym and they only have 24kg db's which is obviously nothing. So I wrapped a resistance band around my back and held it in each hand so I could add resistance and that feels great. You are looking fantastic so whatever you are doing is obviously working so keep doing it.

 

[Biggerp73]

"Pushing through the chest" makes perfect sense. Before I was focusing more on "not using the shoulders", and that was making me sensitive to any little bit of shoulder activation, and preventing me from really getting inside my chest and driving with it.


At the beginning of the summer I was able to hit 315 for 4, and then moved up and hit 365 for a single. But I lost strength after that for some reason, and stayed around 225 doing 5-7 sets of 8-12 reps. Today I got under 315 and hit it for 5 easy reps, then did 4 more sets with the same weight, 4 reps each. Cooled down with 10 reps of 225 and then did some steep incline dumbell presses and cable flys.

 

[Elvia1023]

"Pushing through the chest" makes perfect sense. Before I was focusing more on "not using the shoulders", and that was making me sensitive to any little bit of shoulder activation, and preventing me from really getting inside my chest and driving with it.


At the beginning of the summer I was able to hit 315 for 4, and then moved up and hit 365 for a single. But I lost strength after that for some reason, and stayed around 225 doing 5-7 sets of 8-12 reps. Today I got under 315 and hit it for 5 easy reps, then did 4 more sets with the same weight, 4 reps each. Cooled down with 10 reps of 225 and then did some steep incline dumbell presses and cable flys.

If the connection (and just genetics in general) isn't there then execution (the way you set up) is especially important and weights mean nothing. I remember benching 4pps for approx 10 "good" reps and my chest was completely flat (literally nothing). I was all shoulders and tri-ceps. Everyone is different and I believe in all rep ranges above about 5. Meaning I don't think I have ever benched less than 5 reps ever. I don't see the point unless training for strength and powerlifting. I only train for bodybuilding but everyone is different. There can be a time and place for everything though.

It goes against what is written on here all the time. But if you want to improve your chest I would forget about numbers and strength. Once you pinpoint the form/execution then you can look into progressive weights. I only started improving my chest when I actually lowered the weight. I still have a long way to go but my chest is tonnes better than the past when I was benching heavy most weeks. I am not stating don't lift heavy (far from that) but I think you could do well taking a different approach. Although you just wrote you are starting to fill out nicely so what you are doing now could be the best thing for you so keep doing it.

The simple thing for me is do you feel it in your chest? Does your chest get pumped up when training? Does your chest get sore after training? All these are indications you are connecting effectively. If that is the case then just go to town and keep pushing what you are doing and it will only get better. Once you are on the correct path for that given bodypart it becomes a case of consistency and time.

I would also recommend posing between sets. Trust me I am the last to do that but I just mean under your clothes tense your pecs between sets. Tense and hold until they burn and do that between sets. It will help with the connection and another way to increase intensity.

 

[Fit2Serve]

decline presses
dips

if u struggle to isolate chest due to delts wanting to do the work then ^those 2 exercises r ur best friends
-F2S

 

[lookslikesausage]

you can't "take" the shoulders out of pressing movements. That's impossible if you have a normal set of limbs. what you can do is squeeze your scapula together/pull your shoulders back and down and press from that position. this will also be better for the health of your rotator cuffs. have you played around with the temp of your reps? pre-exhaust? slow negatives and pauses seem to be ideal for this problem in my experience. in your sets, trying to spend more time in the stretch position of the movement may benefit your pecs. are they getting sufficiently lengthened/stretched when you perform the exercises?

 

[Elvia1023]

decline presses
dips

if u struggle to isolate chest due to delts wanting to do the work then ^those 2 exercises r ur best friends
-F2S

Yes two of the best.

you can't "take" the shoulders out of pressing movements. That's impossible if you have a normal set of limbs. what you can do is squeeze your scapula together/pull your shoulders back and down and press from that position. this will also be better for the health of your rotator cuffs. have you played around with the temp of your reps? pre-exhaust? slow negatives and pauses seem to be ideal for this problem in my experience. in your sets, trying to spend more time in the stretch position of the movement may benefit your pecs. are they getting sufficiently lengthened/stretched when you perform the exercises?

Of course but many people allow their shoulders to totally take over. There will always be some chest stimulation but for many not much. So you can always position yourself and lift in a way to bring more tension to the pecs (as you know). Controlled negatives should be a given but you are right so many people don't control the weight and that is another huge point. There is no right answer to any of this as many do just fine with a fairly fast rep speed. Although I would also recommend exactly what you do and controlled negatives. I generally prefer explosive (but engaged) positives. Basically just having that connection through the entire rep. Pauses at the bottom in the stretched position are great too. I am also a big fan of dead stop reps but it's key to drive through the chest on the way up when doing this. So even when the bar is at a dead stop you want to be engaging the chest ready to "squeeze" it up.

I am fairly vocal on this subject just because I know what it's like to do what most consider correct (train hard and heavy) and not make any real progress. Even if looked at most would think my form was good. It's not like it looked way off. The bar was straight, rep speed varied, pauses and controlled reps. But I wasn't engaing the chest sufficiently because of the way I was set up physically and mentally. Some guys can press from day 1 even with quite bad form and they can still engage the chest. So my post is for the guys who simply can't and don't have that connection. I am nothing special but my chest can look quite freaky now (for me) and I literally had no chest after training very hard for over 15 years so it's something that definitely didn't come naturally.