Quality of Synthesized Raws

[showstopper83]

I think it's amazing that we now have access to labs than test raw purity in oils... But does high purity necessarily mean that the raw material was synthesized 100% optimally as the drug was intended to be when first created by pharmaceutical companies?

What I'm asking is can raw purity be high, but still slightly off what it's supposed to be chemically? I can imagine making the damn raw powder isn't an easy task.

I wonder this bc you hear these almost folk tales about ug tren hex or primo original Parabolin and how Schering Primo (Now Rimobolan) are just not the same.

Is all 99% purity raw the same across the board?

 

[trekrider215]

I've wondered exactly the same. Like if 48.92mgs of ugl Anadrol is exactly the same as 48.92 mgs of pharmacy grade Anadrol. People just make such a big deal about these old school orals, and how nothing else compares..
Yet we have a bunch of lab results coming back showing in many cases these ugl orals are actually dosed properly.

Im so tired of hearing people say, "theres no real anadrol out there anymore" or no real primo, or masteron Enanthate, or whatever. Obviously these people just dont know where to look.

 

[showstopper83]

I've wondered exactly the same. Like if 48.92mgs of ugl Anadrol is exactly the same as 48.92 mgs of pharmacy grade Anadrol. People just make such a big deal about these old school orals, and how nothing else compares..
Yet we have a bunch of lab results coming back showing in many cases these ugl orals are actually dosed properly.

Im so tired of hearing people say, "theres no real anadrol out there anymore" or no real primo, or masteron Enanthate, or whatever. Obviously these people just dont know where to look.

I think part of that is "back in the day" when people had access to HG aas, they also didn't have 1,500 cycles and years of blasting/cruising under their belt to desensitize themselves.

But i also do wonder if it's just that simple to synthesize a hormone EXACTLY as it should be in structure- even when we look at pharmaceutical grade meds in general, there seems to be a distinct difference between generic and brand name drugs.

99% purity may tell us there is 99% of the hormone in the powder... But does it tell us that the hormone was created structurally as it was intended to be?

Is anyone here familiar with the process of actually creating the raws to answer this?

 

[buck]

If a hormone was not structurally the same then it would be a different compound and would show up under a quality control check which any FDA approved facility would have to do on every batch they make. And studies show people do not get desensitized to using AS. But you can't expect to keep making the same kind of gains every time off the same dose. When I look back 20-30+ years ago I saw more people struggling to push bigger weights then I do today. Not training as hard and relying on drugs to induce gains seems more the problem to me.

 

[showstopper83]

If a hormone was not structurally the same then it would be a different compound and would show up under a quality control check which any FDA approved facility would have to do on every batch they make. And studies show people do not get desensitized to using AS. But you can't expect to keep making the same kind of gains every time off the same dose. When I look back 20-30+ years ago I saw more people struggling to push bigger weights then I do today. Not training as hard and relying on drugs to induce gains seems more the problem to me.

That's my point- ug labs and the raws they use aren't necessarily made in FDA approved facilities.

And i LOVE ug labs... I used to get var from this non board source that says he got his raws from Germany at 99% purity. All i needed was 1x 30mg cap and veins, fat loss, felt great.

My source that i use now i trust and makes good product, it's def var, but i don't feel as good off his var and i don't quite get the vascularity that i used to. I also feel a bit lethargic on it, and always used to feel great off his var.

 

[Bio]

I think it's amazing that we now have access to labs than test raw purity in oils... But does high purity necessarily mean that the raw material was synthesized 100% optimally as the drug was intended to be when first created by pharmaceutical companies?

What I'm asking is can raw purity be high, but still slightly off what it's supposed to be chemically? I can imagine making the damn raw powder isn't an easy task.

I wonder this bc you hear these almost folk tales about ug tren hex or primo original Parabolin and how Schering Primo (Now Rimobolan) are just not the same.

Is all 99% purity raw the same across the board?

The drug itself couldn't be slightly off or it wouldn't be the same drug. Changing a molecule changes the drug.

When a drug patent runs out and other pharmaceutical companies can then make a generic version, the original manufacturer only has to supply them with the ingredients and not the process in which the ingredients were incorporated. In some drugs this could have an effect.

I used real Anadrol, Dianabol and Anavar in the late 80's. I never had an appetite issue with any of them like you hear about today. I've wondered if this is exactly due to what I stated above.

 

[F350]

I think it's amazing that we now have access to labs than test raw purity in oils... But does high purity necessarily mean that the raw material was synthesized 100% optimally as the drug was intended to be when first created by pharmaceutical companies?

What I'm asking is can raw purity be high, but still slightly off what it's supposed to be chemically? I can imagine making the damn raw powder isn't an easy task.

I wonder this bc you hear these almost folk tales about ug tren hex or primo original Parabolin and how Schering Primo (Now Rimobolan) are just not the same.

Is all 99% purity raw the same across the board?

there are different quality in raws. in the USA reputable and FDA licensed vendors are required to test there raw materials before allowing them to be sent out to compound pharmacies for manufacturing. do all abide by this? not the cheap ones making to look a buck. the repeatable ones do though. there is a vast difference in quality. i have seen it and experienced it.

 

[showstopper83]

The drug itself couldn't be slightly off or it wouldn't be the same drug. Changing a molecule changes the drug.

When a drug patent runs out and other pharmaceutical companies can then make a generic version, the original manufacturer only has to supply them with the ingredients and not the process in which the ingredients were incorporated. In some drugs this could have an effect.

I used real Anadrol, Dianabol and Anavar in the late 80's. I never had an appetite issue with any of them like you hear about today. I've wondered if this is exactly due to what I stated above.

I probably didn't word what i was getting at well enough, but from how you are explaining it, there could definitely be a difference even though it is technically the same compound.

Like i said, the var i had from supposed German raws was just flat out better and more pronounced than var I've gotten from other reputable labs.

I also hear about Negma Parabolan and how few sides it had compared to todays tren.

Then there is primo... I have never ran Bayer primo, but I have ran legitimate primo several times, was definitely primo every time... But 1 lab in particular just gave me more pronounced results at similar doses.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

That's my point- ug labs and the raws they use aren't necessarily made in FDA approved facilities.

And i LOVE ug labs... I used to get var from this non board source that says he got his raws from Germany at 99% purity. All i needed was 1x 30mg cap and veins, fat loss, felt great.

My source that i use now i trust and makes good product, it's def var, but i don't feel as good off his var and i don't quite get the vascularity that i used to. I also feel a bit lethargic on it, and always used to feel great off his var.

It takes very sophisticated equipment and smart people to make raws. Our factory is actually licensed in China. Many are, some are not. Many people selling raws are actually middle men, or tradesmen as they are called. I think your imagined view of these facilities is way off. The UGL might not be far off from your imagination but that is another story. Pic of our factory is attached.

Read up on some of the testing threads or search for posts by janoshik. When he does a mass spectrometry he is looking for specific spikes in the chart at known places. If the spike is someplace else, it is NOT the same compound.

drugs from "the old days" were 20 years ago and guys have since ran 100`s of grams of gear through their body, plus normal aging. Then they expect it to be the same as first cycle :banghead: The loss of appetite I believe is from a liver that has been compromised. I`ve seen 2 different people take same oral and 1 can`t eat. That is an issue in their body, NOT a drug issue.

So yes, if it is 99% "substance", then it is. Problem is everybody claims that 99%. I always have an open invite for people to test our raws, come to us AFTER testing and get compensated for the cost of test.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

This primo e 200 (211mg) will give same exact results as a Bayer brand or any other pharma brand that is also 200mg. If the purity of our primo used to make this were 70%, well then out total mg/ml would be about 30% less than we had planned for. The other % that is not "pure" is most often just broken down, partial molecules of that same compound. Either not fully synthesized or degraded from temp, time, or other.

 

[showstopper83]

It takes very sophisticated equipment and smart people to make raws. Our factory is actually licensed in China. Many are, some are not. Many people selling raws are actually middle men, or tradesmen as they are called. I think your imagined view of these facilities is way off. The UGL might not be far off from your imagination but that is another story. Pic of our factory is attached.

Read up on some of the testing threads or search for posts by janoshik. When he does a mass spectrometry he is looking for specific spikes in the chart at known places. If the spike is someplace else, it is NOT the same compound.

drugs from "the old days" were 20 years ago and guys have since ran 100`s of grams of gear through their body, plus normal aging. Then they expect it to be the same as first cycle :banghead: The loss of appetite I believe is from a liver that has been compromised. I`ve seen 2 different people take same oral and 1 can`t eat. That is an issue in their body, NOT a drug issue.

So yes, if it is 99% "substance", then it is. Problem is everybody claims that 99%. I always have an open invite for people to test our raws, come to us AFTER testing and get compensated for the cost of test.

You sound very knowledgeable...

On OLM, in the drug profile section, in the write up for Madol/Pheraplex, there was some jargon along the lines that the original Madol formula contained a 2-ene isomer or something of the sort, and that the original formula produced no bloat/water... And that the formula others have tried to use has a 3-ene or something of the sort, and that's what leads to it being a wet compound.

This is also supported by many different accounts of madol/phera users stating they get only dry gains, some saying they hold water.

Would you say based on what you explained to me, that those should be considered 2 different compounds altogether?

 

[Voxide]

The drug itself couldn't be slightly off or it wouldn't be the same drug. Changing a molecule changes the drug.

When a drug patent runs out and other pharmaceutical companies can then make a generic version, the original manufacturer only has to supply them with the ingredients and not the process in which the ingredients were incorporated. In some drugs this could have an effect.

I used real Anadrol, Dianabol and Anavar in the late 80's. I never had an appetite issue with any of them like you hear about today. I've wondered if this is exactly due to what I stated above.

On legit naps (metandienone) you should be hungry every 2 hours.


The biggest misconception in this whole game is that quality drugs are just of an overflowing abundance and are available everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

You sound very knowledgeable...

On OLM, in the drug profile section, in the write up for Madol/Pheraplex, there was some jargon along the lines that the original Madol formula contained a 2-ene isomer or something of the sort, and that the original formula produced no bloat/water... And that the formula others have tried to use has a 3-ene or something of the sort, and that's what leads to it being a wet compound.

This is also supported by many different accounts of madol/phera users stating they get only dry gains, some saying they hold water.

Would you say based on what you explained to me, that those should be considered 2 different compounds altogether?

You raise a good point about isomers. An isomer is the same chemical formula, just different structure. Imagine a hydrogen flips its place to another spot on the compound. The molecular weight would be the same so I`m not sure that testing with infrared spectoscopy or NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) would be able to discern different isomers. I`m sure there is a way to tell which it is but that is beyond my scope. Not all compounds have isomers, sometimes if you try to change the molecule it just won`t hold together or be the same.

I`m not familiar with pheraplex, it seems to have a real long chemical name and 2 different chemical formulas. So I can`t comment much on that.

 

[trekrider215]

On legit naps (metandienone) you should be hungry every 2 hours.


The biggest misconception in this whole game is that quality drugs are just of an overflowing abundance and are available everywhere.

Its okay brother, give it a little bit of time and youll learn where to get "the good stuff".

 

[showstopper83]

You raise a good point about isomers. An isomer is the same chemical formula, just different structure. Imagine a hydrogen flips its place to another spot on the compound. The molecular weight would be the same so I`m not sure that testing with infrared spectoscopy or NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) would be able to discern different isomers. I`m sure there is a way to tell which it is but that is beyond my scope. Not all compounds have isomers, sometimes if you try to change the molecule it just won`t hold together or be the same.

I`m not familiar with pheraplex, it seems to have a real long chemical name and 2 different chemical formulas. So I can`t comment much on that.

All this detailed, chemical makeup/structure stuff is honestly over my head.

Is there a possibility that compounds like primo/parabolan can be created to have the same makeup, just in a different structure?

 

[buck]

All this detailed, chemical makeup/structure stuff is honestly over my head.

Is there a possibility that compounds like primo/parabolan can be created to have the same makeup, just in a different structure?

No. If I use the materials that can make a car but instead make a truck it is no longer a car. That is what changing structure is like. It can still haul people and supplies but not in the same manner or quantity.

 

[LK3]

i understand what you mean with your question. i dont have a 100% hard answer but i think the chem structure of the aas is correct or not.

that would show on a test i think though.

it is very hard to get super consistent powder.

if you shop around you will see a difference.

 

[maldorf]

I wonder how things are now in China with exporting pharmaceuticals since the US is now trying harder to catch Fentanyl coming into the country.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

Is there a possibility that compounds like primo/parabolan can be created to have the same makeup, just in a different structure?

Simple answer NO. A compound can have the same atomic makeup (same # of C-H-O) but slightly different spot. That is called an isomer. I saved a pic to show you but the site is till not letting me attach pics since it was down. Google images for "trans vs cis fats". You move 1 hydrogen to the other side of molecule and its a trans fat, but still the same kind of fat. Isomers are possible with several different compounds that form long chains like fats, alcohol and other fuels. Hormones like primo and parabolan do NOT have isomers. They just don`t have a structure that allows that.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

I wonder how things are now in China with exporting pharmaceuticals since the US is now trying harder to catch Fentanyl coming into the country.

Mail is still moving just fine Most fent starts as precursors ( I won`t name) that come from China to Mexico by the pallet load. They are then converted 1-3 steps to make fent and various analogues. Then comes across southern border. Yet cialis/viagra are now banned substances in China. Go figure.